Lower end guitars losing resonance over time

[CTN]

I've been noticing something about my Epi SG.

I've had it almost a year and a half now, and have been playing it regularly. But I've noticed something lately that reminds me of what happened to my old Hamer/Slammer explorer copy aeons ago. After owning it for some time, the guitar seemed to lose the tight/resonant feeling and sound that it had when I bought it. Same thing is happening to my SG now. Sustain seems to have dropped off a bit, and the guitar seems to be fighting me. I just recently restrung and set it up. Also, shortly after I got it, I replaced the cheap plastic nut with a nice Graphtech Tusq nut, and gutted the electronics and replaced all of it.

I'm not sure what's causing it. Anyone else experience anything like this? Could it be just a simple matter of tightening up all the hardware? I almost feel like I might need to give the bridge/tailpiece studs a good hammering to make sure they're properly seated in the wood and aren't coming loose, but I'm equally concerned that the neck joint just isn't tight in terms of maximum wood-to-wood contact, which I can't really do anything about at this point.

 

[Kam]

Re: Lower end guitars losing resonance over time

Honeymoon period coming to an end?

 

[CTN]

Re: Lower end guitars losing resonance over time

If I can't resolve this issue, then probably.....

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Lower end guitars losing resonance over time

I've experienced the same phenomenon quite a few times. But it wasn't the guitar at all.

In physiology it is referred to as "accommodation". And the ears do this very well (as well do the eyes). It is simply, "getting used to" the sound. At first we hear all of the highs and lows, the spikes, the presence, the brilliance, the resonance, the tightness. After time, we get used to the sound and our ears begin to focus on the midrange tones which our ears are most tuned to hear.

 

[Top-L]

Re: Lower end guitars losing resonance over time

An equally likely explanation is that the frets are wearing down and the contact is not at good, the notes are muffled.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Lower end guitars losing resonance over time

I've experienced the same phenomenon quite a few times. But it wasn't the guitar at all.

In physiology it is referred to as "accommodation". And the ears do this very well (as well do the eyes). It is simply, "getting used to" the sound. At first we hear all of the highs and lows, the spikes, the presence, the brilliance, the resonance, the tightness. After time, we get used to the sound and our ears begin to focus on the midrange tones which our ears are most tuned to hear.

+1. Far more likely. I doubt that MIA's sound better over time, and imports get worse. What definitely does change over time is the sound of tubes.

 

[CTN]

Re: Lower end guitars losing resonance over time

Probably should've made this more clear....I'm talking about the sound/feel of playing the guitar unplugged. the whole vibe is vastly different than when I first got it.

Maybe it's just cuz of winter, but I feel like it's gotten worse in the past few months.

 

[CTN]

Re: Lower end guitars losing resonance over time

An equally likely explanation is that the frets are wearing down and the contact is not at good, the notes are muffled.

nah, the frets are in good shape. If anything, they could use a polishing, but no major work needed.

 

[crusty philtrum]

Re: Lower end guitars losing resonance over time

A friend of mine has one of those, he thought it was really good. After a couple of years he noticed the bridge (or tailpiece, can't remember ... probably bridge) studs were moving in the wood, being pulled forwards. That's an area worth checking, as sometimes lower-priced guitars are made from wood that's really not up to the task. I saw similar things happen with some Kramer guitars in the 1980s.

It could also perhaps be a case of environment and how that particular guitar behaves in the climate where it lives (and/ or climatic changes it may experience via travel). Heat, cold, dryness, humidity etc. and changes between various conditions. Some solid guitars handle those things without much change, others can change noticeably, both in feel and response.

 

[ginormous]

Re: Lower end guitars losing resonance over time

I hold Neil's (crusty) opinion in high regard. He does know how to build 'em, and also I've seen a similar thread in The Bassment about a Gibson bass losing its' bridge studs.

Might be worth a trip to a trusted luthier for checking out.

 

[CTN]

Re: Lower end guitars losing resonance over time

Yeah, I feel like it's likely a combination of factors. Next string change, I'm gonna devote some time to checking all the hardware. Still though, there's nothing I can do about the wood and the joints.

Considering it's just an Epi, I really don't think it's worth actually taking to a luthier. Maybe it's time to sell it off and get something nicer that can do the Gibson thing.

 

[crusty philtrum]

Re: Lower end guitars losing resonance over time

If it was the wood mushing out around one of the threaded inserts, you could pull it out and glue it in with epoxy, provided you can set the stud in the right position while the glue dries. Of course you could go further and dowel the hole and re-drill, but ... there will be limits about how far you want to go with that instrument. But if the wood is soft, it might just cause a problem to start somewhere else when the original issue is fixed in some way.

Hey, it's not the Tune-O-Matic collapsing in the centre is it ?

I agree, check all the hardware. IF it happened to be a bridge or tailpiece insert moving in the wood, find an easy way to fix it and then find it a new home. We can argue all day about tonewoods, but i'm pretty sure we'd all agree that if a piece of wood can't hold the hardware in place under normal string tension, it's no use for a guitar no matter what wood it might be.

 

[Top-L]

Re: Lower end guitars losing resonance over time

Yeah, I feel like it's likely a combination of factors. Next string change, I'm gonna devote some time to checking all the hardware. Still though, there's nothing I can do about the wood and the joints.

Considering it's just an Epi, I really don't think it's worth actually taking to a luthier. Maybe it's time to sell it off and get something nicer that can do the Gibson thing.

Do you think the neck joint is coming unglued or changing?

 

[CTN]

Re: Lower end guitars losing resonance over time

I checked the radius at the bridge and it's just a weeeeee bit flatter than the 12" radius it should be, but not a whole lot. So the bridge has probably just started its gradual journey towards total collapse.

Presumably the body is some sort of mahogany, so it's probably not super soft, but that doesn't really mean it's hard and stable either.

 

[CTN]

Re: Lower end guitars losing resonance over time

Do you think the neck joint is coming unglued or changing?

no, the neck doesn't move around at all. But that doesn't mean it's a really great neck joint either. Could be epoxied in for all I know, which would hold it steady quite well, even if it isn't a really tight wood-on-wood joint. If it was a really tight, pro-luthier type joint (which, let's be honest, the likelihood of that on an MIC epiphone is slim), one would assume that the whole guitar would resonate a lot better than it does.

 

[Top-L]

Re: Lower end guitars losing resonance over time

no, the neck doesn't move around at all. But that doesn't mean it's a really great neck joint either. Could be epoxied in for all I know, which would hold it steady quite well, even if it isn't a really tight wood-on-wood joint. If it was a really tight, pro-luthier type joint (which, let's be honest, the likelihood of that on an MIC epiphone is slim), one would assume that the whole guitar would resonate a lot better than it does.

This is one of the reasons that I like bolt on necks! Tried and true, wood on wood, and can be shimmed if needed.

I never understood the glue-on thing. It is trying to imitate a neck thru, but usually has the square heel anyway so access is not any better than a bolt on would be.

 

[Chocklit_Thunda]

Re: Lower end guitars losing resonance over time

Maybe it's just cuz of winter, but I feel like it's gotten worse in the past few months.

It could be this. I've had this experience a few times, the most obvious was with my Walden acoustic. Depending on the weather and humidity levels it either sounds horrendous or it outclasses the Martin.
The effect is less dramatic with the solid body electrics but its still there.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Lower end guitars losing resonance over time

no, the neck doesn't move around at all. But that doesn't mean it's a really great neck joint either. Could be epoxied in for all I know, which would hold it steady quite well, even if it isn't a really tight wood-on-wood joint.

I don't see how a set neck could change over time and effect the tone quality. Being near the arctic circle, you're running your furnace quite a bit for a good part of the year. That dry air will impact wood, as will the summer, when the furnace is (briefly) off. The moisture content of the wood will change periodically, and that impacts it's tone and sustain.

Realistically, how many people can remember exactly what a specific guitar sounded like unplugged 18 months ago? You've played other guitars since then, and yet somehow stored away precise aural images of this one? You'd have to have the audio version of a photographic memory. Not saying that's not possible, but the odds of you having that uncanny ability would be pretty slim. I'll play the same guitar thru the same amp, same settings, same spot in the room, and some days it'll sound different. Any difference would be in how I'm hearing it, and what kind of mood/alertness I happen to be in. There's times I'm 'on' and energetic playing-wise, and other times I'm tired or distracted. As any expert in the field can tell you, human memories change over time, without them realizing it. Few things are more unreliable than 'eye witness testimony.'

 

[CTN]

Re: Lower end guitars losing resonance over time

This is one of the reasons that I like bolt on necks! Tried and true, wood on wood, and can be shimmed if needed.

I never understood the glue-on thing. It is trying to imitate a neck thru, but usually has the square heel anyway so access is not any better than a bolt on would be.

I like bolt on's too. But sometimes, you just need a Gibson type guitar for Gibson type tones.

Also, set neck construction predates electric guitars and neckthrough construction for guitars. It derives from acoustic guitar construction.
Also also, on an SG, the heel size is negligible. on my SG it only starts at the 20th fret. (out of 22)

 

[Top-L]

Re: Lower end guitars losing resonance over time

I like bolt on's too. But sometimes, you just need a Gibson type guitar for Gibson type tones.

Also, set neck construction predates electric guitars and neckthrough construction for guitars. It derives from acoustic guitar construction.
Also also, on an SG, the heel size is negligible. on my SG it only starts at the 20th fret. (out of 22)

I'm pretty sure the technique for joining two pieces of wood has been mastered by the Chinese, I doubt that would be the reason for loss of tone in this case.

If the bridge is bending down in the middle, then the strings may not ring as freely. THey may be getting pinched out by the frets which could explain the problem.

When I shimmed my new Chinese floyd guitar so the bridge matched the neck radius I could go much lower without losing tone.