Lowering Floyd Rose nut

Re: Lowering Floyd Rose nut

DrNewcenstein, thanks for this. A lot of things I didn't even consider.

Most of them are Kellys, and KVs.

I don't think working on the nut would be a good idea due to its hardness and inability to determine whether it is flat.

At least if you take off too much wood, you can shim.

My hope is that the size between the post holes will be so small that it won't be a big deal if there are small variances. I didn't notice an issue with using a taper reamer on pot holes except when the threads of domestic pots wore the holes a little larger than they needed to be. This was fixed with washers, but it's a small quibble.
 
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Re: Lowering Floyd Rose nut

Also I should clarify, by widening post holes I don't mean making them further apart, but increasing the diameter of the pre drilled holes so the OFR screws fit.
 
Re: Lowering Floyd Rose nut

greekdude, I'll make it simple:

Do you agree or disagree that the hardness of a bridge's metal affects its tuning stability? Yes or no? This is where we disagree. If the metal is harder, the bridge will be heavier, the edges will not wear, and it will balance better, allowing flutter.
I disagree. Tuning stability depends on your knife edges, which most usually are made from hardened steel. If those are soft, then the trem is crap and wont last anyway. Weight has nothing to do with tuning stability or to be more precise, it might even be harmful to tuning stability depending on the orientation of the guitar. Heavy parts are a mojo of the 70s, can't believe that crap in 2016++. About flutter I told you, compare the soft metal edge zero II to the heavy tank-like OFRs. Nothing to add more. *But* soft metal on the plate might give you problems with the saddles. But this is repairable as well.

It just says some of what I already wrote to you, nice article. But you need to NOT generalize, just because ultra garbage soft metal chinese trems wont last a day, it does not mean that e.g. *your* trem has to be bad. My longest sustaining guitar (more than your average LP) has plywood body and FRII, go figure.

Because I have personally played some of the FR1000 bridges on the Ibby import Satch models, I can say that those bridges were better than the JT580LP. The only disadvantage, again, was the increased weight that made the pivoting action less smooth.

You didn't say overtighten, but, as far as tightening, one person's tight is another person's overtight.

So I'll make it simple.

I'm going OFR Pro. And I need to know how to deepen the nut channel.

I appreciate all input.

No JS models have FR1000's that I know of. Don't weaken your neck. Good luck.
 
Re: Lowering Floyd Rose nut

Also I should clarify, by widening post holes I don't mean making them further apart, but increasing the diameter of the pre drilled holes so the OFR screws fit.

Right, but this is still a problem, unless you're using a reamer and working evenly. If you're using smaller hand files, things could go South easily. A tapered reamer might not go down far enough to get the bottom of the hole.

The OFR inserts are definitely larger in diameter than most import models, and you can split the wood by trying to force them in (been there, done that). I think they're taller, as well.
 
Re: Lowering Floyd Rose nut

You would be right and I would be mistaken, because, to my knowledge, Ibanez has never used an FR bridge. I will have to ask my friend who owns the guitar what type of Edge bridge it is.

In reference to the flutter, you didn't address the video I showed you, which showed an OFR with better flutter than at least an Edge Roadster.

I appreciate it. If taking off a few hundreds of an inch destroys a bolt on neck that I can replace for less than the cost of a good grinder, I'll let you know. The worst part of it is the harder metal will make a brighter tone, which I am not sure I want.
 
Re: Lowering Floyd Rose nut

DrNewcenstein, a taper reamer is not going to provide a uniform diameter either, is it? as I go deeper, the hole will widen.
 
Re: Lowering Floyd Rose nut

Measuring the import nut from the base to the top at the outside edge without the clamp looks about like 8/32" (1/4") or 9/32".

This is why I want a caliper for this kind of thing just to be sure I'm exact.
 
Re: Lowering Floyd Rose nut

And I suppose I'll need to measure the diameter of the OFR screws and see if I can find a taper reamer to that thickness and length.
 
Re: Lowering Floyd Rose nut

Also, I misremembered.

My friend DID initially own an import Satch Ibby model that he disliked, either because the bridge wouldn't stay in tune or because the screws were stripped.

Later, he purchased an import PRS SE, which I'm fairly certain has an FR1000 on it. THAT was the guitar I played, and the bridge felt much more stable than the JT580LP. The thing I didn't like was, because it was heavier, it was less smooth to pivot.

http://www.prsguitars.com/se_floyd_custom24/
 
Re: Lowering Floyd Rose nut

Inflames, I don't work for neither Ibanez nor FR, and don't have time to watch vids about things I have done numerous times. Now back to your issues; since you seem determined to go into mods, the basic things that you need are :
- time, patience
- careful preparation and planning
- TOOLS
Do you have a drill press? (those in the 50-EUR range will be fine, no need to break the bank). A power drill? Obviously, you'll need that as well. Always practice in blank wood whatever you decide to do. If you decide to widen the insert holes, go little by little. Follow the maker's (FR's) installation instructions carefully. If you mess up and make the holes too wide, there is a very easy cure for that as well (but not reversible) : http://www.pattex.de/do-it-yourself...-klebstoffe/epoxykleber/stabilit-express.html (MMA 2-part adhesive : IMHO better than epoxy, much easier than dowel/redrill). Filler gauges, digital calliper, etc all those are good to have if you want to set up your guitars (and much more applications in house/garden/garage/etc).
 
Re: Lowering Floyd Rose nut

BX8a, metal has come a long way in the 25 years since Metallica were in their prime. I suggest checking out anything Alexi Laiho has done over the past 20 years for plenty of examples of flutter. Also, if your bar for virtuosity is Kirk Hammett--well, listen to newer metal. :)

The main thing here is, when someone makes an assertion, and I demonstrate proof to the contrary, they only make the assertion more forcefully, and this is counterproductive.

You can start here with a video by Mike Chlasciak of Rob Halford's band, who demonstrates flutter on an OFR at 2:06 very slowly. My JT580LP bridges never did this, when new or old, even set up properly. When they do come out of tune, it is not simply for OCD people. It is usually about 1/2 step. The strings have also been known to even pop out of the saddles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Vs5FfacDAY

Once again, I will post proof of an OFR having superior flutter to an Edge:

The 3:25 mark shows an OFR, the Edge is at 8:00.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwGcY6T4xHc

If you choose to reply, watch the videos first. Don't choose to ignore them just because the videos disagree with your anecdotal experience.

In any event, the entire Edge conversation is pointless because I'm not rerouting a Jackson for an Edge bridge, so why bother discussing it?

Of course the question or implication will be that I do not know how to do set ups, since this is the only way that can possibly explain why my JT580LP won't flutter because there's no way someone else's anecdotal experience can be wrong.

When I was at GIT 16 years ago, I was taught setups by John Carruthers, who codeveloped the EMG pickup and worked with Musician's Institute on their guitar building program. Here are videos John did for Elixir:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHHepmTX3So

Since that time I've set up and intonated dozens of Floyd Rose guitars successfully, often changing tunings and string gauges from E standard in 9 gauge to A standard in 12 or 13 gauge. I can do set ups. What has never happened is the same tuning stability and flutter effect on my JT580LP bridges as happened on, say, my friend's PRS 24 SE with an FR1000 bridge. I personallly played this guitar and I felt the bridge was superior. The bridge was heavier, but the weight made it less smooth than the JT580LP, which was my only complaint.

So, we've established some things here:

1) I have demonstrated evidence to show proof contrary to the assertions made.
2) I've shown I can do setups.
3) I've shown an association between flutter and tuning stability in OFR units but not in licensed versions (the Edge may or may not do this--it's irrelevant to my issue because I don't have an Edge route).

The only remaining variable has to be the JT580LP, of which I have 7, 3 Kellys, 3 Dinkys, and a KV. All demonstrate the same behavior of tuning instability and lack of flutter even when set up properly. They did this when they were new, and they do it now.

Further:

1) I'm not going to be convinced that lighter weight bridges are better, at least for OFRs.
2) Grinding metal off of the bottom of an OFR nut is going to take more time due to the hardness of the steel. There's also going to be questions about whether the grinding on the bottom is flush on the bottom just as the same as whether the nut channel remains flat. In either case, the solution will be shimming, but more importantly is to make sure either surface is flat, which I cannot guarantee either way.

In conclusion, I came here to find out how to precisely and accurately lower a nut channel by hand, as the subject line states. Nothing more.

I don't know how many times I can keep restating the same points.
 
Re: Lowering Floyd Rose nut

^^^ hmmm was the Edge Zero 2 you tried ZPS or the simple one (without ZPS or any stabilization mechanism)? It is natural that the ZPS won't have full floating operation, whereas the common simple version will have full floating. I am thinking of converting my edge zero ii-7 to stabilized in my quest for more sustain.
 
Re: Lowering Floyd Rose nut

BX8a, it was worth it in the 90s. Not so much anymore thanks to YouTube. But I still have about a half dozen big binders full of stuff I need to practice.

First world problems, eh? :)
 
Re: Lowering Floyd Rose nut

Here might be an example of a Satch guitar with an FR, in this case licensed. I don't recall Edge and its derivatives having the licensing disclaimer, but I may be wrong.

http://www.musicgoround.com/p/361978/used-ibanez-joe-satriani-gen-1-electric-guitar-black

The words "FR" and "licensed" are mutually exclusive. Maybe Gotoh (or whoever made this) had to put the "licensed" tag for legal reasons but still not a FR in any sense.

Here you see Ibanez Lo Trs II :
ibanez-lo-trs-trem-ii-872822.jpg


I hope you get what I was saying all along. You are very eager to draw conclusions on almost anything.
 
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Re: Lowering Floyd Rose nut

My understanding was the Edge didn't have to be licensed because it was its own design, which was the purpose of creating it (in order to save money by not having to pay Floyd for the license).

That's a Lo-TRS, not an original Edge.

And the one in my link does not have Edge stamped on it.

When you said that Satch guitars didn't have FR trems, I was looking for Ibanez only proprietary designs, not FR licensed or derived designs in ANY form. I'm very specific in this.
 
Re: Lowering Floyd Rose nut

In other words, if I spot a Satch guitar with any reference to FR on it, licensed or otherwise, I'm afraid I win the debate. Unless you can show every Satch in existence ONLY has proprietary Ibanez designs.

I'm quite surprised at the license stamp, really. I thought all Ibby bridges, even low end ones, didn't need a license because they were proprietary.
 
Re: Lowering Floyd Rose nut

Not sure what you mean 'lower nut'. I have one Jackson Floyded guitar which the nut sits too high, but the nut sits on a 'shelf' right in front(?) of the nut on the headstock. I'm going to file it ( shelf) down some whenever the spirit moves me.
 
Re: Lowering Floyd Rose nut

Not sure what you mean 'lower nut'. I have one Jackson Floyded guitar which the nut sits too high, but the nut sits on a 'shelf' right in front(?) of the nut on the headstock. I'm going to file it ( shelf) down some whenever the spirit moves me.

if it was me... id get a file and work the nut.. nuts are cheap to replace.. be more difficult to repair the shelve if you botched it up.. never done something like that though.. just makes more sense..
 
Re: Lowering Floyd Rose nut

if it was me... id get a file and work the nut.. nuts are cheap to replace.. be more difficult to repair the shelve if you botched it up.. never done something like that though.. just makes more sense..

Although seemingly nothing could go wrong taking a very cautious approach, and doing itty bits at a time filing down the nut shelf with a bastard file- which would be a lot easier than taking down the metal nut, I think you may actually be right. What if for some reason lowering the shelf cause the strings to buzz? The strings are way to high one the first fret and although they get lower towards the twelfth fret, I do not really know for sure why the guitar was set up like that, although it is a parts mutt .
 
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