Lowering Floyd Rose nut

Re: Lowering Floyd Rose nut

My problem is the same as yours, I think, MetalManiac.

My understanding is the OFR nuts and the import licensed nuts are of different heights. The OFR nut is taller. I measured and it looked like it was about .020-.030" of a difference. If I put it on the shelf, the shelf will be too shallow, and the nut will sit too high. It might not be an issue and just be a feel thing. If it isn't, I want to be prepared. I won't know for sure until I measure everything with a caliper.

My worry is that the lowered nut won't be parallel if filed by hand and so the guitar will be set up strangely.

But it should be a very small amount of wood to remove. I was hoping there would be some sort of tool for this. Stew Mac sells a nut leveling file, but it is quite narrow--about 1/4" wide and I need slightly under 1/2".
 
Last edited:
Re: Lowering Floyd Rose nut

Brandenburg has a point as well, but I don't know how evenly I could grind off excess metal on a grinding wheel without it maybe tilting because it could be uneven.

And steel is definitely not going to come off with a hand file.

Why hand tools? I don't have room for grinders or drill presses. And I'm a long way away from a luthier.
 
Re: Lowering Floyd Rose nut

Vai was doing flutters on OFRs long before the Edge trem units came about. Satch recorded Surfing With The Alien with a Kramer that had an OFR on it.

In my first-hand experience with various trem systems over the years, the position of the knife edges/pivot points determines how easily it flutters and otherwise actuates. Ibanez typically has their pivot points located further back than an OFR, as well as slightly wider apart, which is why they are not direct replacements for each other, even on surface-mounted units. The Lo-Pro/Lo-TRS design is closer to the OFR post spacing and knife edge location.

It is possible to strike the strings or the body with enough force to cause the bridge to flutter, whether OFR or Ibanez or Kahler Spyder or Killer.


Floyd Rose holds the patent on the bridge design that locks the strings at the saddles and at the nut (double-locking), so unless the string does not lock at the saddle (Kahler ball cups, some Floyd-style units that thread the strings through the bottom like Fender bridges) nor at the nut itself (the Kahler "behind the nut" locks) everyone who makes a double-locking tremolo/vibrato does so under FR license. I believe FR also holds the patent for single-locking units (bridge only) as well as a separate patent for the locking nut (combination nut and lock), hence the Kahler "lawsuit" locking nut.

As for expanding the holes for the threaded inserts without a drill press, you have at least 2 options:

1. find a very short tapered reamer, almost like an end-mill tap and some sort of hand-held device to work it.
2. get yourself an electric drill, a bit of the diameter you're going for, and at least 2 levels, and mount the levels onto the drill body. Keep the bubbles centered as you drill out the existing holes.
 
Re: Lowering Floyd Rose nut

^ take a uber duber cautious approach, and file a slight bit off the shelf and play it as it lays, rinse and reapeat if necessary. I totally forgot that steel nut isn't going to come down with a hand file.
 
Re: Lowering Floyd Rose nut

Inflames626 said:
Brandenburg has a point as well, but I don't know how evenly I could grind off excess metal on a grinding wheel without it maybe tilting because it could be uneven.

And steel is definitely not going to come off with a hand file.

Why hand tools? I don't have room for grinders or drill presses. And I'm a long way away from a luthier.
Click to expand...

The only reliable way to do it with a grinding wheel is with a surface grinder where the nut will be clamped into a sturdy fixture and the material removal wheel, also mounted on a sturdy frame, passes over it multiple times on an even plane.
However, this will also negatively affect the depth that the nut clamp screws may travel into the body of the nut, and quite possibly the nut mounting screws to mount it to the neck.

The nut files from StewMac are for traditional bone/plastic/resin/graphite/other non-steel/non-locking nuts.

Thus, removing the wood from the neck shelf is the best way. You still need to figure out how to do it evenly.
 
Re: Lowering Floyd Rose nut

DrNewcenstein said:
2. get yourself an electric drill, a bit of the diameter you're going for, and at least 2 levels, and mount the levels onto the drill body. Keep the bubbles centered as you drill out the existing holes.
Click to expand...

Just so we are on the same page here
..never ever EVER use a hand drill. You'll rip it to shreds. Use a drill press.
 
Re: Lowering Floyd Rose nut

Thanks DrNewcenstein.

Thanks BX8a. I was under the impression that Ibanez created the Edge to avoid having to pay a licensing fee. Therefore, licensing the design from Floyd Rose would defeat the purpose. In my thinking, the improvements/additions made to the Edge bridge that improved it over the Edge would have theoretically qualified it for another patent. My understanding was that the routes being different from an FR would have made it dissimilar enough to qualify as its own design.

So, I was looking for an Edge bridge that has nothing to do with FR, licensed or otherwise, and is a proprietary design. Since the Edge you pictured is licensed, that doesn't fit my definition. To go back to the original point, I'm not getting an Edge instead of an OFR Pro because I'm convinced that the JT580LP is an inferior bridge due to the metal quality, and so other methods won't solve the lack of flutter/tuning issues.

All of which will be moot because, if the necessary modifications can't be made to the neck, it will be pointless. Sounds almost like I'll need a C&C machine to program dimensions and depth.

MetalManiac, any luck with a drill guide like the Big Gator?
 
Last edited:
Re: Lowering Floyd Rose nut

Inflames626 said:
So, I was looking for an Edge bridge that has nothing to do with FR, licensed or otherwise, and is a proprietary design. Since the Edge you pictured is licensed, that doesn't fit my definition.
Click to expand...
So it didn't fit your definition till 2003, but it did after 2003, which is like saying that your opinion as an engineer is dependent on legal minor formal details. Anyway, I am starting to worry about your guitar, you better take it to a tech.
 
Last edited:
Re: Lowering Floyd Rose nut

It's all good, greekdude, considering my memory was mistaken anyway and the guitar I played wasn't a Satch import, but a PRS SE Custom 24 with an FR1000 (the person who owned the PRS replaced the Satch with the PRS).

And doubtless you're right. I don't have the woodworking tools and it's too much of a risk, even on an import guitar. Had I known it would have been such a pain to retrofit I would have bought guitars with decent bridges outright. But I have about 10 imports so...

Still, I'll wait until I get the new bridge and measure the nut against the old nut with a caliper to see where I stand.
 
Re: Lowering Floyd Rose nut

Man I am tempted to ask you one more time : is there any specific problem with your guitar? something you don't like in particular or just want to improve?
I have caught my self being obsessed about a mod for months, for a problem that was in my mind, or for smth that simply cannot be improved.
 
Re: Lowering Floyd Rose nut

Inflames626 said:
It's all good, greekdude, considering my memory was mistaken anyway and the guitar I played wasn't a Satch import, but a PRS SE Custom 24 with an FR1000 (the person who owned the PRS replaced the Satch with the PRS).

And doubtless you're right. I don't have the woodworking tools and it's too much of a risk, even on an import guitar. Had I known it would have been such a pain to retrofit I would have bought guitars with decent bridges outright. But I have about 10 imports so...

Still, I'll wait until I get the new bridge and measure the nut against the old nut with a caliper to see where I stand.
Click to expand...

hey man.. lets not dis imports here..some are actually quite nice... i have two that are as good or better than quite a few american production models on the market... just saying
 
Re: Lowering Floyd Rose nut

BX8a said:
I strongly suggest have trained (not just any luthier) pro do the installation for you. It's not as easy as drilling holes. Yo have to get the measurement very, very precise, or otherwise you guitar will f**cked. Seriously, usual problems include the intonation will suffer/ your bridge won't fit cause the posts are too far/ close apart.
Click to expand...

which begs the well known saying : if it ain't broke DON'T FIX IT!, and I am struggling in all this thread to find where exactly the OP's problem is. And even if he indeed has a problem, it will be far more beneficial (for many reasons) trying to fix it, than blindly changing parts.
 
Last edited:
Re: Lowering Floyd Rose nut

greekdude is as valiant at holding a position as Constantine XI trying to stem the tide of Turks coming through the walls of Constantinople (for some reason that came to mind, his being Greek and all). Or maybe Leonidas at Thermopylae :)

Problem: JT580LP is set up properly, does not flutter, does not handle aggressive whammy use, comes out of tune easily, is only useful for occasional dips and pulls. All 7 examples of my JT580LPs were like this, new or old. I don't think it's my imagination, I think it's because it's a licensed and hence inferior quality bridge because softer metals were used in construction to lower costs. The heavier FR1000 I used did all of these things that my JT580LP does not.

The JT580LP bridge is "broke" because it doesn't do what I expect of it, so it needs to be "fixed" by being "replaced." The point of having a FR bridge is to be able to use it. Not gently touch it and pray it doesn't detune a quarter step. Might as well play a worthless fixed bridge guitar, whose only merit is tunings can be changed quickly.

Sharpening the knife edges would be difficult and imprecise, and I don't think that's the problem in the first place. In such a small space, how am I going to be sure the angle of the edge is proper, and that the bridge won't tilt once it is reseated against the posts? Or, if I used the import screws/posts and the OFR Pro bridge, how can I be sure that the slightly smaller screws won't allow the bridge to shift slightly side to side (toward the ceiling and floor) when in use?

I have no issues with import bodies for what they do--this KV3 I have is lightweight alder and maple and doesn't have any particularly outstanding sound of its own, which makes it ideal for the Full Shred set I have in it. Much, much better than the Duncan Designed Invader copies it had in there when I bought it 16 years ago. The neck pickup turned it into a bass.

Some of these responses I'm not seeing, but they're amusing. :) All over a bridge replacement...
 
Last edited:
Re: Lowering Floyd Rose nut

One thing that could come of this, though, is gradually changing out each bridge part until the culprit is found.
 
Re: Lowering Floyd Rose nut

Having extensive experience with the JT580LP bridge myself, and having replaced nearly all of them with Schaller and OFR units, I can state for a fact that as long as the existing studs are not chewed up, they will work just fine.

However, you do have alternatives:
1. Contact Dave at Fretsonthenet.com and see if he can mill a set of pivot posts that will fit into the import inserts yet hold an OFR baseplate.
2. Find some way to clamp the body down to a work surface, even if it means holding it on the ground with your feet, and ream out the existing bridge post holes that are already in the guitar (as a couple of people don't seem to realize this and keep mentioning that the holes would be drilled off-center somehow) using an electric drill. You do not need a drill press, especially as you've already stated multiple times that you do not have the room for one, nor care for the expense of one. I don't blame you there. Even if there was a table-top version you could get, it has to be clamped to a table, and the table has to be sturdy enough to not move when the drill encounters resistance.
The hardest part with option 2 is keeping the drill straight. Depth is no problem: measure the OFR inserts against the bit, wrap a piece of tape around the bit where the FR insert stops, and go no further into the body than that.

I really don't understand the paranoia concerning this procedure.
 
Re: Lowering Floyd Rose nut

DrNewcenstein said:
Having extensive experience with the JT580LP bridge myself, and having replaced nearly all of them with Schaller and OFR units, I can state for a fact that as long as the existing studs are not chewed up, they will work just fine.
Click to expand...

So, what was the problem with the JT580LP bridge in the first place? Which part(s) were weak or just poorly designed?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

I
Mixing OFR, Schaller, and Gotoh parts--does it work?
Replies
6
Views
846
alex1fly
alex1fly
5
Any Drop-In 6-Point Bridges With Floyd Rose Range?
2
Replies
21
Views
2K
'59
5
I
Floyd Rose Special nut
Replies
11
Views
2K
Inflames626
I
muttznmongrelz
  • Locked
FS: Vintage 1986 Floyd Rose Original Tremolo in Chrome R3 Nut & Retainer
Replies
3
Views
418
muttznmongrelz
muttznmongrelz
I
Floyd Rose advice
Replies
7
Views
1K
Inflames626
I
Back
Top