Mag swap (in Phat cat), huge difference?

[lazyfinger]

So I picked up a pair of oriented Rough cast Alnico 5 few months ago. The idea was to replace the stock Alnico 2 in Phat cat (bridge), but still haven't done it yet. But I am double guessing now, is the difference going to be night and day? I really like the sound I get from the treble strings, but it's the low 3 wound strings that I find it to be mushy, loose, and undefined with gain. And sometimes, I will use massive, modern high gain. The pickup is in bridge of a strat, and I usually have my pups jacked up high for the boost in output.

But now I think it's worth the risk of pickup surgery only if I get a more focused, tight, defined and deeper bass sound from the bottom. Well I know the conventional wisdom would be just try it and see it for myself, but what would you guys think about going from A2 to A5 in the same wind, has it made huge difference?

Few months ago, I also tried the hex screw mod as well, but that just made the low strings sound tinny, albeit defined, but not heavy/bassy enough. So I went back to the regular pole screws.

Thanks.

 

[dr. ad]

Re: Mag swap (in Phat cat), huge difference?

short answer is yes

i've converted both neck and bridge phat cats to 2 x regular A5 (as it was handy at the time) and have never messed with them again. i think of the stock 2 x A2 as the 'no doubt' sig model

apologies if this is all unnecessary:
when you open the phat cat up, you need to remove the solder connecting the baseplate to the metal cover;
then gently lift the end opposite where the cable goes, as the whole bobbin will sit in the cover while the cable and wires are still attached to the baseplate (which you're gently and carefully messing with)

you'll want a chisel-tip in your iron, a little hand-held de-solder pump and some de-solder braid for this work

 

[lazyfinger]

Re: Mag swap (in Phat cat), huge difference?

Well, it absolutely helps, thank you. Is it necessary to de-solder both sides, or just the side opposite of the cable?

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Mag swap (in Phat cat), huge difference?

I'm assuming that you actually did mean "oriented rough cast A5" and not "unoriented rough cast A5 (UOA5)".

Yes, you will notice a huge improvement....less mud, brighter, more bite, tighter. Just remember that the magnets go into the pup repelling each other.

 

[lazyfinger]

Re: Mag swap (in Phat cat), huge difference?

Yes, it should be oriented, as the description on ebay never said anything about unoriented. However, it is rough cast, and not polished.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Mag swap (in Phat cat), huge difference?

Yeh, roughcast A5 should be great.

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Mag swap (in Phat cat), huge difference?

So I picked up a pair of oriented Rough cast Alnico 5 few months ago. The idea was to replace the stock Alnico 2 in Phat cat (bridge), but still haven't done it yet. But I am double guessing now, is the difference going to be night and day? I really like the sound I get from the treble strings, but it's the low 3 wound strings that I find it to be mushy, loose, and undefined with gain. And sometimes, I will use massive, modern high gain. The pickup is in bridge of a strat, and I usually have my pups jacked up high for the boost in output.

But now I think it's worth the risk of pickup surgery only if I get a more focused, tight, defined and deeper bass sound from the bottom. Well I know the conventional wisdom would be just try it and see it for myself, but what would you guys think about going from A2 to A5 in the same wind, has it made huge difference?

Few months ago, I also tried the hex screw mod as well, but that just made the low strings sound tinny, albeit defined, but not heavy/bassy enough. So I went back to the regular pole screws.

Thanks.

You'll have a KILLER PC bridge p'up with an A5/A8 mag combo. My P-94 bridge is like this and I can vouch for the quality of the tone, both clean and overdriven. I don't do high gain, no need to.

HTH,

 

[blueman335]

Re: Mag swap (in Phat cat), huge difference?

I'm the first one here to swap mags in Phat Cats, because I was so disappointed in the stock A2 tones, bridge and neck. I tried them in mahogany or semi-hollows; the necks were very dark, almost no treble; the bridges were 'thin and weak' (Zhang quote), and overpowered by the neck. Just didn't work. First thing I did was try pairing up different alnicos to blend their EQ's, something you can't do with HB's. Keep in mind, with P-90's the ratio is two mags per coil; in an HB it's 1/2 mag per coil. Big difference in mag influence.

For the bridge, after some trial and error, my favorite P-90 magnet pairs are A8/A5, A8/A4, UOA5/UOA5, and RC A4/RC A4. All of these have full, rich mids, and the treble is under control.
The neck: A5/A5 (traditional P-90), A5/A4 (more mids), and A5/A3 (for dark guitars like LP's)

If you have RC A5's, I'd use those in the bridge (smoother high end), and regular polished A5's in the neck (sharper tone).

BTW, I have nine Phat Cats now, and have taken the A2's out of all of them, and given them away to forum members across the world. My Phat Cats now have the above-mentioned mag pairs, and sound so much better.

 

[tenniso]

Re: Mag swap (in Phat cat), huge difference?

blueman, after these mag swaps with the phat cats, do you find that you prefer the phat cats with different mags as opposed to traditional p90's such as soapbar and dogears?

 

[blueman335]

Re: Mag swap (in Phat cat), huge difference?

blueman, after these mag swaps with the phat cats, do you find that you prefer the phat cats with different mags as opposed to traditional p90's such as soapbar and dogears?

The mag pairs I listed (above) are in my all soap bars and dog ears too. Flushed with success after my discoveries with Phat Cats, I was inspired to get a few P-90 guitars. There's so much you can do to dial in what you want.

Twin A5's in the neck slot are very good, but can be a little bassy in some guitars and woods, hence the A5/A4 (warm) and A5/A3 (bright) alternatives. I don't think twin A5's in the bridge balance well with the neck; they're bright and thin. Dial in your amp EQ to the bridge, and the neck is too dark. You have more mag options in warming a bridge, than you do in brightening a neck, so logically you want to do some mag swapping in the bridge to beef it up. The twin A5's in the neck P-90 will usually be fine as is; if not one A3 or A4 will fix it.

If I could only have twin A5's or twin A2's in all of my P-90s and Phat Cats, my guitars would all have humbuckers. My experiments with mag swaps are what turned me into a P-90 fan.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Mag swap (in Phat cat), huge difference?

The P-90 fan club just keeps on growin.

 

[tenniso]

Re: Mag swap (in Phat cat), huge difference?

The mag pairs I listed (above) are in my all soap bars and dog ears too. Flushed with success after my discoveries with Phat Cats, I was inspired to get a few P-90 guitars. There's so much you can do to dial in what you want.

Twin A5's in the neck slot are very good, but can be a little bassy in some guitars and woods, hence the A5/A4 (warm) and A5/A3 (bright) alternatives. I don't think twin A5's in the bridge balance well with the neck; they're bright and thin. Dial in your amp EQ to the bridge, and the neck is too dark. You have more mag options in warming a bridge, than you do in brightening a neck, so logically you want to do some mag swapping in the bridge to beef it up. The twin A5's in the neck P-90 will usually be fine as is; if not one A3 or A4 will fix it.

If I could only have twin A5's or twin A2's in all of my P-90s and Phat Cats, my guitars would all have humbuckers. My experiments with mag swaps are what turned me into a P-90 fan.

so, i shouldn't be hesitant to go with phat cats over a traditional p90 since mag swaps an option on either one?

 

[blueman335]

Re: Mag swap (in Phat cat), huge difference?

so, i shouldn't be hesitant to go with phat cats over a traditional p90 since mag swaps an option on either one?

Right. Mag swpas are easy in a P-90. A lot of guys here really like GFS Mean 90's, which are more affordable.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Mag swap (in Phat cat), huge difference?

The P-90 fan club just keeps on growin.

+1. And that's a good thing. I'd like to thank Gibson and Epiphone for introducing a number of P-90 guitars recently. They've picked up on consumer demand and this thing is snowballing. Players want P-90's and those companies have responded. Keep up the good work!

 

[tenniso]

Re: Mag swap (in Phat cat), huge difference?

you are an invaluable resource Blueman. and one of the coolest guys on the forum.

 

[dazzlindino]

Re: Mag swap (in Phat cat), huge difference?

take the mags out...thats what eddie did whilst recording...kinda gave him that single coily humbucker sound thingy....