Magnets as blades: will they degauss each other?

[Chocklit_Thunda]

Hi

I've been running through the design of a new bass pickup for a project of mine. Basically it's a soapbar humbucker with the magnets situated directly in the coils in the place of the blades. Wire gauge and coating to be decided a bit later, I've been looking at mixing and matching 2 magnets in the humbucker. So basically using say an A2 and A5 in the neck or an A5 and ceramic In the bridge for a kind of "best of both worlds" tone.

I wanna know if the two magnets with differing strengths, sitting side by side with opposing polarities will cause the weaker to degauss.
Basically 2 magnets, one north up, one south up, parallel to each other separated only by the wires of each coil. Will one die?

Thanks

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Magnets as blades: will they degauss each other?

Should be fine. If they were stuck together it might be a problem but with the coils separating them it would be ok.

 

[Chocklit_Thunda]

Re: Magnets as blades: will they degauss each other?

Should be fine. If they were stuck together it might be a problem but with the coils separating them it would be ok.

Thanks that's exactly what i was looking for

So if I added a third magnet at the bottom, in the same way a normal humbucker has it as in: l_l
Where each line is a magnet, what would happen? The poles would be touching north to north and south to south the way a P90 has them. Would this strengthen the field or weaken it?

 

[uOpt]

Re: Magnets as blades: will they degauss each other?

This is the way firebird mini hums work.

 

[Chocklit_Thunda]

Re: Magnets as blades: will they degauss each other?

This is the way firebird mini hums work.

Is that the first way or the way mentioned in the second reply? With the 3 magnet design?

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Magnets as blades: will they degauss each other?

modern firebird pickups have 2 rectangular magnets in the center of the coils like in your first example not the 3 mag idea you came up with later. Though the vintage ones do have a ferrous metal plate that connects both magnets together making a pseudo horseshoe magnet. The 3 pickup design would essentially do this also but would have issues with degaussing each other cause they would be magnetically coupled to each other.

The question I ask now is why? There is a limit to how much magnetic field actually sounds good. This is a definite case of more is not always better. Also keep in mind there is a difference between the intensity of a magnetic field and its saturation. What results are you actually trying to achieve?

 

[uOpt]

Re: Magnets as blades: will they degauss each other?

Is that the first way or the way mentioned in the second reply? With the 3 magnet design?

First. I should have quoted your first post.

I've gotta be honest, I am not sure that permanent magnets that don't move relative to each other de-gauss each other at all, no matter which direction and how close you pack them.

(and don't get slammed around and don't get temperature changes of course)

 

[uOpt]

Re: Magnets as blades: will they degauss each other?

The question I ask now is why? There is a limit to how much magnetic field actually sounds good. This is a definite case of more is not always better. Also keep in mind there is a difference between the intensity of a magnetic field and its saturation. What results are you actually trying to achieve?

I think what decides how the thing sounds in the end is mainly a function of the shape of the resulting magnetic field, and not the strength.

I think that arranging many pickups closely in a vertical formation will focus the magnetic field and make it narrower, cover less of the string's length at a given strength, and that makes the sound thin.

Oh the other hand, the triple-set of magnets in an Invader clearly pancakes the field, as does the bridge mount in a tele (steel frame) and that makes it more bassy.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Magnets as blades: will they degauss each other?

I think what decides how the thing sounds in the end is mainly a function of the shape of the resulting magnetic field, and not the strength.

Ummm this isnt necessarily true. Strength does play a role in it. You really think that all the mag swappers are changing the shape of the field? They are making it larger or smaller yes but its going to be the same shape cause the bar mag didnt change size.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Magnets as blades: will they degauss each other?

Ummm this isnt necessarily true. Strength does play a role in it. You really think that all the mag swappers are changing the shape of the field? They are making it larger or smaller yes but its going to be the same shape cause the bar mag didnt change size.

No, you are right, the strength will change the resonance peak at least as well.

However, identical size A2 and A5 bar magnets have differently shaped fields, I measured that a couple years back. And that has a very direct impact on sound.

So, as usual in guitar things, everything matters

 

[Chocklit_Thunda]

Re: Magnets as blades: will they degauss each other?

Thanks for the replies guys. The main aim here was to use 2 magnets to get a broader tonal range out of the pickup. I was just curious as to what would happen if you added a 3rd one. More a hypothetical question of the tone change and kind of ignoring the added string pull and other factors.
I just assumed that by adding a horizontal magnet to the two vertical ones, you'd get a completely different shape of field but my worry was that in me using different magnets for each coil, the weaker would lose its charge over time

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Magnets as blades: will they degauss each other?

But you cant just keep adding magnets. The string pull could get horrendous out of 3 full size bar mags. By broader tonal range do you mean more? as in more highs more lows or do you mean your trying to combine the qualities of a A2 mag with the qualities of an a5 mag and which qualities are you looking to try and combine.

 

[Chocklit_Thunda]

Re: Magnets as blades: will they degauss each other?

Yeah I realised that. The max I wanted to know about was 3. I'm trying to combine the qualities of the mags. I guess 2 magnets would be fine. 1 in each coil? That way there's no bad demagnetism and less string pull. I'd probably have to place the pickup lower in the rout though?

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Magnets as blades: will they degauss each other?

Yeah I realised that. The max I wanted to know about was 3. I'm trying to combine the qualities of the mags. I guess 2 magnets would be fine. 1 in each coil? That way there's no bad demagnetism and less string pull. I'd probably have to place the pickup lower in the rout though?

With 2 bar mags you would be ok you might have to drop it a bit lower. You could do 3 mags just not 3 full size mags. But what qualities are you trying for? You say combine the qualities but which ones? Are you after the soft bass of an A2 with the scooped mids of an A5 or what?

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Magnets as blades: will they degauss each other?

I wanna know if the two magnets with differing strengths, sitting side by side with opposing polarities will cause the weaker to degauss.
Basically 2 magnets, one north up, one south up, parallel to each other separated only by the wires of each coil. Will one die?

Thanks

NO! I can't believe everybody has missed this. If they were arranged so the SAME poles face each other -- both north up or both south up -- they might degauss each other, but they're opposite, and they're not even very close together, especially compared to a P90. But since they are opposite, one north up, the other south up, if anything they'll reinforce each other a bit.

P90s are the pickups in danger of degaussing because they have the same pole facing each other, S facing S or N facing N, with just the steel pole shoe and poles separating them -- sometimes no pole shoe at all depending on the winder. But not your design which is essentially like a Firebird.