Major guitar compay's custom shops - is it worth it?

[Snake Aces]

Re: Major guitar compay's custom shops - is it worth it?

I have played some custom shop Gibson Les Pauls and have always been impressed. They are so expensive but if I was rich as hell I'd probably buy one. The Fender custom shop stuff is pretty nice too, they pay the same attention to detail that Gibson does but for some reason there is not the same "awe" factor going from a standard MIA Strat to a CS.

When it comes to Warmoth, which is kind of a custom shop kind of thing, you can pick from more options and truly get a guitar or bass the way you want it. I prefer Warmoth and the cost is usually 1/3 to 1/2 of CS Fender of Gibson stuff. If you hang around the screamin' deals showcase at Warmoth's site long enough you can even piece together some real nice guitars and basses for under a grand!

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Major guitar compay's custom shops - is it worth it?

Some of the "best" guitars may have not been made by a custom shop, but on some magic Wednesday in the summer of 1963, when everyone on the production line just happened to not have a hangover. I would expect that the money paid would morel likely lead to a more perfect instrument where the finish is absolutely immaculate, the frets are mirror polished, the binding seams are invisible, just the right amount of glue is used, etc.

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Here you are mistaken... there is a huge difference between special and perfect. The drawings my 5 year old niece makes for me are not perfect but they are very special.

A 63 strat is not special.. it was one of probably 2 dozen built that day. It might be flawless in its construction and play perfectly but it is not special.

Those variations you get from a instrument being hand made are not flaws.

 

[Kostas]

Re: Major guitar compay's custom shops - is it worth it?

Depends to the players needs/expectations and his/her wallet. There are CS guitars and there are custom ordered guitars. If you want just the prestige of owning a CS guitar you will find it. If you have specific requests and you want to custom order your guitar you will not find it everywhere. Gibson now has a program that you order the color and you choose between three neck back shapes, that's it. Jackson's options for a neck profile are non existent unless you go in the masterbuilt category but we are talking about LOTS of money. Is it worth it? Definitely no for me but I'm judging with my wallet. When I saw Jackson's options and compared it with Warmoth's I laughed. But Warmoth does not have the prestige or the fame of a Jackson.

The Anderson mentioned above is a good example of what a great CS guitar should be. Tom used to say we will make the guitar of your dreams but we will not put a photo of your grandma on it. Meaning we concentrate on quality, not show. Anderson and Grosh (Suhr later) were the first to offer many different options to the player looking to create the guitar of his/her dreams but always in the strat/tele form. You were not only paying for top quality but also for a guitar that had a setup to your specs and was playing like butter from the beginning. That's something people forget when they use parts to create their own guitars. If you are not an expert choose the parts and have your tech do the assembling/setup according to your needs.

In the end we are getting to what I wrote in the beginning. You can buy a CS guitar of the shelf, be proud you have an expensive guitar of a well known company and you can sell it and have most of your money back. You can custom order your guitar to the CS of Fender, Jackson or to someone like Anderson or McNaught who are a CS and pay top money. Finally you can choose the parts and make your own custom guitar. It will cost you way less money and these days there are so many shops you can find bodies of any shape, you can find bolt on, set neck and neck through parts. You have to know what suits your playing (especially the neck options) and to assemble the guitar the right way. Your guitar won't have any prestige or mojo (unfortunately that's essential for many guitarists) and if you decide to sell it you will take back less than half of what you paid.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Major guitar compay's custom shops - is it worth it?

I do appreciate the attention to detail that a custom might bring you. I'm not sure about the "feel". Like anything else made by hand, there will be variation. Some good, some bad.

Some of the "best" guitars may have not been made by a custom shop, but on some magic Wednesday in the summer of 1963, when everyone on the production line just happened to not have a hangover. I would expect that the money paid would morel likely lead to a more perfect instrument where the finish is absolutely immaculate, the frets are mirror polished, the binding seams are invisible, just the right amount of glue is used, etc.
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The 'variation by hand' usually is to do with the precise neck profile, the shape of the body, the carve on a Gibson top and the body contours on a Strat.

We need to separate out the gems of vintage guitars from the precision that comes with custom shop guitars nowadays - they are so separate as to be virtually mutually exclusive. The gems from back in the day came from in one part wood - the natural variances in trees growing in their natural environment without forced growing - and the pickups.......the natural variance of supplied materials and a method not yet automated to the point where it was repeated every time. The 'monday hangover' or 'Friday knockoff time' guitars might have had looser physical tolerance, but that didn't alter the magic that occurred as the whole became greater than the sum of the parts.

Custom shop guitars try to pick the materials that they think will give the best chance of giving that brilliant tonal guitar, but with the added precision that gives a fantastically engineered instrument.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Major guitar compay's custom shops - is it worth it?

Jackson's options for a neck profile are non existent unless you go in the masterbuilt category but we are talking about LOTS of money. Is it worth it? Definitely no for me but I'm judging with my wallet. When I saw Jackson's options and compared it with Warmoth's I laughed. But Warmoth does not have the prestige or the fame of a Jackson.

Jackson will do MANY things warmoth will tell you to get bent before they do. But it does require you to go masterbuilt and not the custom select route. Custom select was designed for guys who wanted small changes to production guitars. Not full on custom.

Comparing Jackson custom shop to Warmoth is like comparing apples to avocados. They occupy completely separate realms.

I will tell you this though Warmoth might give you options but they will never give you hand built.

 

[Kostas]

Re: Major guitar compay's custom shops - is it worth it?

...I will tell you this though Warmoth might give you options but they will never give you hand built.

And that's bad? Every guitar is hand assembled, every body & neck is sanded by people when CNC is finished. You mean not use a CNC at all? My luthier does this, he charges (more or less depending on the options you want) the same as Anderson and Suhr. His guitars are great but not better than those guys and it takes him months to have one guitar ready. Hand built the way most people mean it means nothing to me. I like the combination of the consistency of a well programmed CNC and the final touch of an experienced employee.

Jackson will do MANY things warmoth will tell you to get bent before they do. But it does require you to go masterbuilt and not the custom select route. Custom select was designed for guys who wanted small changes to production guitars. Not full on custom.

Comparing Jackson custom shop to Warmoth is like comparing apples to avocados. They occupy completely separate realms...

I compared a parts company with a guitar company, I know their differences. For the big majority Warmoth gives a lot more. Warmoth was used as an example mostly because I have experience with them. USACG, Musikraft, Guitar Mill will give you options and will not ask for your car and your house... Like I said, it's what your wallet can handle. What the buyer will do with their parts it's entirely up to him, he can make a great instrument or an unplayable guitar. That's why I don't recommend a custom order to new players or those who don't know what radius (for example) is. You need to know what you want, otherwise if you just want a green soloist Jackson will do that for you.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Major guitar compay's custom shops - is it worth it?

Hand built meaning warmoth has a set of templates and a set of options and if you want anything beyond that you are SOL. Ive never known warmoth to assemble anything so dont where that comment is from.

But my apples and avocados comment was directed that the OP asked about buying a custom guitar from a shop not buying a parts guitar.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Major guitar compay's custom shops - is it worth it?

I have no experience with CS instruments, but I have no doubt they're worth it. I think it also depends on what you're used to. I just stepped up to the MIA Fender world, and nearly a month after getting one, I'm still wow'ed by the quality compared to what I was used to.

I don't think you can write off MIA production stuff as people just punching a clock, though. I manage an auto parts store. When I hire people, I'm extremely picky to find knowledgeable people who care about doing a job well. It's tough to make a direct comparison to production vs custom shop, because all our stores sell the same products, but the experience at my store will be much better than many others.

Given the varying quality we've seen from certain American companies recently, I would say that some of them put more emphasis on the consistent quality of their people, not just materials.

Having said all that, I'd love to own a CS Fender some day.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Major guitar compay's custom shops - is it worth it?

^ Ron Kirn is the guy to go to if you ever want to scratch the 'high end fender build' itch.

 

[muttznmongrelz]

Re: Major guitar compay's custom shops - is it worth it?

I am going to add a couple of things; strictly from my perspective. I ran across both of the Custom Shop Guitars I had "used", as the Fender Strat (Guitar Center purchase) was a 1989 and the Jackson Soloist Custom (Music Go Round purchase) is a 1988.

I immediately knew each was "something special" visually then, upon picking each one up and feeling how substantial they felt in my hand and checking out the build quality (fit, finish, alignment, attention to detail, quality of components) and finally, sitting down and playing each unplugged for resonance and plugged for tone...well...each one clearly stood out as remarkable as a player and in the way it looked, felt and sounded...far above what I had ever owned or even played or owned.

Would I pay $3,000.00 or more for a guitar; if I were rolling in cash...sure...why not...but, as a hobbyist player that works a full time job and has spent the last 20 years raising a couple of kids and providing for a family (one is a Sophomore in College/other is a Sophomore in High School), a CS Guitar was never and would never be at the top of my list.

I was lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time with each guitar; the Fender was sitting at my local Guitar Center on a stand facing the entry doors at $749.99 (I sold it for $1,850.00) so you could not miss it when you walked in the door. From the moment I saw it and picked it up it never left my hands until I was loading it into the back seat of my car post purchase. With the Jackson; it hung on a wall at MGR in their "Upper End Guitars" Wall Display for months at $1,699.99 and I played it everytime I went in over those months. Shockingly, no one bought it, finally, when I walked in and it was "Clearance" Tagged at $899.99 I was like "WTF"??? Sure the "Glow In The Dark Crackle/Lava" Finish isn't for everyone and it's an "Eighties" Guitar but an incredibly nice guitar nonetheless. I paid for it and walked out the door with no regrets.

In all honesty, had I not gone through a difficult divorce I would have held onto the Fender Strat. It was that good. I had thought about selling the Jackson at one point and as I had it for a week or two and played it, I bonded with it and thought; when would I be able to afford a "One Off Custom Shop Guitar" of this caliber and with it being made in a prime era of Jackson Production...would I even get a guitar of this quality today? Really an eye opening epiphany for me with the Jackson.

All that said...have I had other guitars that were great guitars...yes...an '82 Les Paul Standard (Custom Color), '88 Gunslinger/Assassin "Graffiti", a couple of Kramer Telecaster Custom Builds, an Ibanez RG565/550 Swirl Mutt...all great guitars IMHO...but were they to the level of "quality/ease of playability" and did they have "the feel" of the two CS Guitars I have familiarity with...no...whether good or bad...but there is/was a difference. Does one need, care or want that difference...that's up to the individual.

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Major guitar compay's custom shops - is it worth it?

IMO... it's hard to fully appreciate quality when you're not used to it. I mean... I think most people can easily understand when something is better, but you don't fully grasp all the nuances until you're fully familiar with it. Then, once it's taken away you and you go back down in quality you have a better appreciation for what you just lost.

Totally agree with this post. The more time you spend with a really great, well-made instrument... the more that you appreciate it. I'd HATE to have to go back to a regular strat type guitar now that I've gotten really comfortable with my Andy.

 

[Jason_The_Angry]

Re: Major guitar compay's custom shops - is it worth it?

Cool responses all, I appreciate it. Seems there is some unquantifiable essence to some of these guitars that makes it worth it. Like muttz mentioned, I too am a hobbyist, so the budget for the highest-end gear is not there. I've had to make do with the gems I find, usually with a lot of polishing.

 

[DMR]

Re: Major guitar compay's custom shops - is it worth it?

If I were to ever custom order a guitar it would probably be from Carvin/Keisel Guitars. Fantastic options w/ reasonable pricing. I personally have always thought people were crazy paying what some of them do for custom shop guitars. Some of these other companies, no way i'd be paying upwards of 5-6K for a guitar made mostly by CNC anyway.

If you do it for the perceived more personal "feel" or "playability" and you're getting something you will truly cherish then that's fine. But over the years i've become convinced there is a subset of people (with money to burn) who buy custom instruments for guitar message board cred. And then when the novelty wears off and people start tapering off with the congratulatory posts whenever pics are posted, the guitars end up on ebay or being sold on the board with stunning frequency. Seen it so many times, especially over at the old ESP forums with the Ken Lawrence guitars. I never understood it. You put up 5-6K for a highly personalized instrument with elaborate fretboard art that supposed to have personal meaning......and it ends up for sale less than a year after the original owner starts showing it off.

 

[Johnny the Kid]

Re: Major guitar compay's custom shops - is it worth it?

If I were to ever custom order a guitar it would probably be from Carvin/Keisel Guitars. Fantastic options w/ reasonable pricing. I personally have always thought people were crazy paying what some of them do for custom shop guitars. Some of these other companies, no way i'd be paying upwards of 5-6K for a guitar made mostly by CNC anyway.

If you do it for the perceived more personal "feel" or "playability" and you're getting something you will truly cherish then that's fine. But over the years i've become convinced there is a subset of people (with money to burn) who buy custom instruments for guitar message board cred. And then when the novelty wears off and people start tapering off with the congratulatory posts whenever pics are posted, the guitars end up on ebay or being sold on the board with stunning frequency. Seen it so many times, especially over at the old ESP forums with the Ken Lawrence guitars. I never understood it. You put up 5-6K for a highly personalized instrument with elaborate fretboard art that supposed to have personal meaning......and it ends up for sale less than a year after the original owner starts showing it off.

Then those are the guys who don't truly deserve an instrument of that quality. If it's just to show off, that's not cool. I'd love a Ken Lawrence Explorer. Think any of those guys would pawn one off for $100?

 

[Silver]

Re: Major guitar compay's custom shops - is it worth it?

All this talk about 'hand made' and 'craftsmanship'...

Aren't custom shop Fenders/Gibsons still cut out on a CNC machine?

And it's not really custom unless I can get a Les Paul made out of carbon fibre, with single coil fender pickups and a PRS tremolo, and a big graphic on it that says "Gibson sucks!", and the body shape to be slightly different too.

Not saying I'd want any of those things, but offering a standard model but letting customers select from a predetermined range of colours/woods/pickups is not 'custom' (a more accurate description would be just 'master built'). You get more customisation options when buying a new production car from a normal car dealership.

IMO, the only way to get a custom hand built guitar is to go to a luthier where you can say, "this is what I want" and there are no limits, and it's all made by hand because they can't afford CNC machines and paint robots.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Major guitar compay's custom shops - is it worth it?

Custom shop != custom spec guitar.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Major guitar compay's custom shops - is it worth it?

All this talk about 'hand made' and 'craftsmanship'...

Aren't custom shop Fenders/Gibsons still cut out on a CNC machine?

And it's not really custom unless I can get a Les Paul made out of carbon fibre, with single coil fender pickups and a PRS tremolo, and a big graphic on it that says "Gibson sucks!", and the body shape to be slightly different too.

Not saying I'd want any of those things, but offering a standard model but letting customers select from a predetermined range of colours/woods/pickups is not 'custom' (a more accurate description would be just 'master built'). You get more customisation options when buying a new production car from a normal car dealership.

IMO, the only way to get a custom hand built guitar is to go to a luthier where you can say, "this is what I want" and there are no limits, and it's all made by hand because they can't afford CNC machines and paint robots.

There are some things you have do on machines. I hand build guitars, but I don't (and nobody does) have the power to cut wood with my fingers. Nor would any builder sit there whittling away wood.
What you might find is that there are separate machines for the custom shop. Not some massive cnc, but a pin router where the process is guided by hand. The production gibsons have their fret slots cut all at once with a spinning drum with cutting blades at the right intervals. Maybe the CS has a fret slotting table saw which you have to manually align the board and cut each slot individually. Certainly if they do the rule of 18 fret spacing this is a different interval to the modern scale so it can't be done on that same machine.

The Gibson CS is not really a CS. They don't do specific orders, they simply make the high-end stuff. Needless to say, the quality is still a step above.....and even you should see that this is the real point of the thread.

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: Major guitar compay's custom shops - is it worth it?

CNC only do the outline of the guitar, and the cavities.
All contours and shaping is done by hand, you cannot replace the human element there, and to be honest, that is a good thing.
I have two CS guitars.
They may look and have much of the same stuff as an ordinary run of the mill guitar have.
But the wood, feel, sound, quality is something different.
After having had quite many middle of the road guitars, guitars that where pretty good, changed all the usual stuff, and all of that stuff.
Frets and saddles are done by hand as well.

None of them are nowhere near the CS ones I have now.
Still I changed electronics in both, and the bridge on both guitars.
And I am not done yet, but that was for reasons of useability, not sound, well the pickups where though, wanted something else than the usual stuff going on there!

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Major guitar compay's custom shops - is it worth it?

CNC only do the outline of the guitar, and the cavities.
All contours and shaping is done by hand, you cannot replace the human element there, and to be honest, that is a good thing.

Vass gets it.

A cnc machine used to make the big cuts doesnt detract from it at all. Its that final shaping thats done by hand that counts. I know some and I dare say many production guitars now all the shaping is done by the machine a hand never touches the instrument until the strings are being put on.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Major guitar compay's custom shops - is it worth it?

Custom shop != custom spec guitar.

This is true too... Even from Rondo you can place orders from time to time for "custom spec" guitars but they sure arent custom shop quality.