making cheap guitars awesome

[DreX]

Re: making cheap guitars awesome

I don't think most $500 guitars are "just a tool" either, I'd put that down to the $150 range these days.

I don't agree with the Rolls Royce vs Kia analogy, because it's not about getting from A to B in either case, it's about enjoying what you're doing and the thing you're doing it with, and a $500 guitar is no less a joy to play than a $2000 - $3000, as the cost difference is largely about cosmetics and personal preference, not performance. A Kia is actually slower than a Rolls Royce in most every case, it's hard to claim that a Kia can be just as fun to drive.

 

[Securb]

Re: making cheap guitars awesome

I don't think most $500 guitars are "just a tool" either, I'd put that down to the $150 range these days.

Everybody has a different bottom, I guess.

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: making cheap guitars awesome

I don't think most $500 guitars are "just a tool" either, I'd put that down to the $150 range these days.

I don't agree with the Rolls Royce vs Kia analogy, because it's not about getting from A to B in either case, it's about enjoying what you're doing and the thing you're doing it with, and a $500 guitar is no less a joy to play than a $2000 - $3000, as the cost difference is largely about cosmetics and personal preference, not performance. A Kia is actually slower than a Rolls Royce in most every case, it's hard to claim that a Kia can be just as fun to drive.

You really like to disagree with everything! lol

Actually, some people (I know personally) can only afford a Kia AND the whole point is to get to work and back home. I also know guitar players who can only afford a cheap knock off Strat (even played in a band with one--good guitar player who was working to pay for his family but music was his passion.)

I would seriously disagree with you on the $2,000-$3,000 being purely cosmetic. The handmade Waynes (by the Wayne Charvel) that I've played sounded heads and tails better than our MIJ Charvels (better sustain, better response, more articulate notes, etc) and I was able to get the best harmonics out of the Waynes than any guitar I've ever played. Also, a Martin HD28 is around $2,800 new–the difference between that and the $500 copies/supposed "equivalents" is most definitely not cosmetic. Just got to a guitar store and play the $500 special next to the Martin HD28...the differences are not comsetic and preference.

 

[kramersteen]

Re: making cheap guitars awesome

Just out of curiosity what guitars do you own drEx? I have heard you mention mim fender but nothing else.

 

[kramersteen]

Re: making cheap guitars awesome

I would seriously disagree with you on the $2,000-$3,000 being purely cosmetic. The handmade Waynes (by the Wayne Charvel) that I've played sounded heads and tails better than our MIJ Charvels (better sustain, better response, more articulate notes, etc) and I was able to get the best harmonics out of the Waynes than any guitar I've ever played. Also, a Martin HD28 is around $2,800 new–the difference between that and the $500 copies/supposed "equivalents" is most definitely not cosmetic. Just got to a guitar store and play the $500 special next to the Martin HD28...the differences are not comsetic and preference.

Wayne charvel is a fat turd :rambo: No way in hell would i give him my money.

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: making cheap guitars awesome

Wayne charvel is a fat turd :rambo: No way in hell would i give him my money.

ROFL! :lmao:

Well, it would kinda be giving it to him and his son... Best electric I've ever played was a Wayne...I just can't justify a $3,000 guitar right now...which is why I do not have a Martin HD28

 

[kramersteen]

Re: making cheap guitars awesome

ROFL! :lmao:

Well, it would kinda be giving it to him and his son... Best electric I've ever played was a Wayne...I just can't justify a $3,000 guitar right now...which is why I do not have a Martin HD28

They had a xmas special. $1500 or so it was for some natural strat.

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: making cheap guitars awesome

They had a xmas special. $1500 or so it was for some natural strat.

Yeah, I saw that and was going to get it but when I checked with the funds it had already sold

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: making cheap guitars awesome

My opinion on making cheap guitars worth souping up:

1. Buy the guitar used. Save 30 to 50 percent of the initial investment.

2. Fretwork and setup (including properly notching, or simply replacing, the nut) make the biggest difference, by a mile. Always do this first, before buying any pickups, hardware, etc. The way to make it worth it is to learn to do this work yourself. Otherwise, add $100 to $150.

3. Hardware (tuners excluded) comes before pickups. You can make crappy pickups and pots sound okay with some simple adjustments and e.q. tweaks. But cheap hardware is unreliable, performs sub-par, doesn't adjust finely, doesn't hold adjustments well, and isn't durable. Getting some well engineered and well built hardware on there makes the second biggest difference in getting rid of the feel of cheapness from the guitar. Make it worth it by buying used when possible.

4. Non-pickup electronics next. If the stock pots and caps are of decent quality, keep them. For instance, MIM Fenders have fine pots and switches; they're as good as what most people buy aftermarket. But lots of cheap guitars have cheesy pots, jacks, and switches that are gonna end up breaking down pretty soon anyhow, so just replace them, and the jack. I usually buy this stuff new.

5. Pickups. If you can't get what you want from your stock pickups by way of pickup adjustment, e.q. adjustment, or pedals, replace them. Make it worth the investment by buying used when possible; it'll usually save you 40 to 50 bucks on a set of pickups.

6. Upgrading the tuners is the least important mod. Steps 2 and 3 will have the overwhelming impact on tuning stability. But as a final nail in the project, new tuners can be nice, especially if the stock tuners are the worst of the worst crap. Again, buy used if possible. 20 to 30 bucks or so for the finishing touch isn't bad. 60 to 80...not so much.

 

[King IzzO)))]

Re: making cheap guitars awesome

I have owned very expensive guitars. I have owned midpriced guitars. I have owned guitars pieced together from expensive parts. I have owned guitars put together from cheap and expensive parts. I have owned guitars put together from entirely cheap parts.

The ONE thing that holds true in all instances is the setup.

Spend the money on a good amp.

 

[guitar74]

Re: making cheap guitars awesome

Here's my few little nuggets of little wisdom: First when you buy a guitar, cheap or otherwise, hit the b string open and touch the lower bout. If you can't feel any vibration, keep looking. Second, replace the pots with quality parts. tunerwise for me, it either has to have lockers, or locking trem, as I haven't found ANY tuners than seem to be able to keep up with minor and major 3rd bends (that's for me, some people don't have this problem). I also sand necks, and after time re-sand as skin oils tend to do the same thing (my big apple strat had a flat finish and after a year, just like a cheapo w/sticky high gloss finish), just be careful on re-sanding as you CAN eventually weaken the neck behind the truss rod (actually did this on my old Peavey Tracer Deluxe, and am STILL looking for a neck for it as it had the FASTEST neck of anything I have EVER owned, and now has a split from head stock to mounting pad)

Even though I am a Duncan guy, more than anything my main concern is noise and microphonics, so shielding, is a MUST as is playing the guitar at stage volume at varying distances away (guitar stores HATE me) to see how good/bad it sounds LOUD. If it sound good but is getting a little RFI, I keep the pickups and do a good shielding job. If it feeds back terribly as in high pitched shriek, then the pickups go bye bye. I also at least bring one of my amps that I use alot, if it's close to everything I can take it from there. Saddles, etc, get replaced immediately on a cheap guitar, and I also use the shielding paint (yes the stuff works great), and is a lot easier than the good old copper, although that works terrific. I also use the shielding paint on the pickguard, as well as behind and around pickups in cavity, as well as in the trem scoop on Floyd guitars, and all trem cavities on no p/guard guitars.

once I get my '85 Kramer Baretta painted, I will have a total of $150 in it, guitar($25), parts ($125 on ebay), and repair ($10 worth of dowels to fill the extra controls that were drilled for, and a basswood plug to fill the slot routed for a front pickup_yeah, the guys routed a vintage Baretta for a front pickup-glad I was able to rescue it before he did more damage).

that's all I have,

Al

 

[Securb]

Re: making cheap guitars awesome

I have owned very expensive guitars. I have owned midpriced guitars. I have owned guitars pieced together from expensive parts. I have owned guitars put together from cheap and expensive parts. I have owned guitars put together from entirely cheap parts..

I read that with a Forrest Gump voice

 

[DreX]

Re: making cheap guitars awesome

You really like to disagree with everything! lol

It's just guitar talk, I'm not keeping an agreement score. Should I pretend to agree with a few posts to even out the balance?

Actually, some people (I know personally) can only afford a Kia AND the whole point is to get to work and back home. I also know guitar players who can only afford a cheap knock off Strat (even played in a band with one--good guitar player who was working to pay for his family but music was his passion.)

The fact that a knock off Strat is the most he can afford in no way implies that there must be shortcomings with that guitar. The fact that they would gig with a knock off Strat and not have the audience or whoever think any less of their performance, or even the appearance of their instrument, just goes to undermine the necessity of the "Rolls Royce" guitars.

I would seriously disagree with you on the $2,000-$3,000 being purely cosmetic. The handmade Waynes (by the Wayne Charvel) that I've played sounded heads and tails better than our MIJ Charvels (better sustain, better response, more articulate notes, etc) and I was able to get the best harmonics out of the Waynes than any guitar I've ever played.

The problem is that this isn't provable, it's subjective experience. For all I know, there mere fact that you expect an expensive guitar to sound better could heavily influence your estimation. What did Wayne do specifically to ensure that their domestics would sound better than the MIJ, and is whatever they did not something you could do yourself to the MIJ? If they pick better wood, how do they determine how "good" a board of wood is before it's a fully made and testable guitar?

Also, a Martin HD28 is around $2,800 new–the difference between that and the $500 copies/supposed "equivalents" is most definitely not cosmetic. Just got to a guitar store and play the $500 special next to the Martin HD28...the differences are not comsetic and preference.

Acoustics are a different subject matter, different price points, etc.

 

[kramersteen]

Re: making cheap guitars awesome

Wheres tonewoods?

 

[voggin]

Re: making cheap guitars awesome

It's just guitar talk, I'm not keeping an agreement score. Should I pretend to agree with a few posts to even out the balance?



The fact that a knock off Strat is the most he can afford in no way implies that there must be shortcomings with that guitar. The fact that they would gig with a knock off Strat and not have the audience or whoever think any less of their performance, or even the appearance of their instrument, just goes to undermine the necessity of the "Rolls Royce" guitars.



The problem is that this isn't provable, it's subjective experience. For all I know, there mere fact that you expect an expensive guitar to sound better could heavily influence your estimation. What did Wayne do specifically to ensure that their domestics would sound better than the MIJ, and is whatever they did not something you could do yourself to the MIJ? If they pick better wood, how do they determine how "good" a board of wood is before it's a fully made and testable guitar?



Acoustics are a different subject matter, different price points, etc.

Just because something is subjective doesn't make it impossible to prove. Mens rea is subjective, yet lots of people get convicted of murder or manslaughter, depending on which state of mind is proven.

 

[DreX]

Re: making cheap guitars awesome

I didn't say it's impossible to prove, but it does remain unproven.

 

[kramersteen]

Re: making cheap guitars awesome

I didn't say it's impossible to prove, but it does remain unproven.

I know this cool race that's going on at the moment and i could enter you in it if you like?

But first how old are you?

 

[voggin]

Re: making cheap guitars awesome

I didn't say it's impossible to prove, but it does remain unproven.

You said it's unprovable, not unproven.

 

[DreX]

Re: making cheap guitars awesome

I meant that you can't cite a reference to prove your case as of this moment.

 

[kramersteen]

Re: making cheap guitars awesome

I know this cool race that's going on at the moment and i could enter you in it if you like?

But first how old are you?

Let the adults talk man! Gosh Tina!