maple necks warp without a proper finish....
- Thread starter Chickenwings
- Start date
Dr. Vegetable
New member
Chris of Arabia
Desert RATT
Re: maple necks warp without a proper finish....
Hey, they do that to me too. Man, what a coincidence... :approve:
Hey, they do that to me too. Man, what a coincidence... :approve:
Dr. Vegetable
New member
Re: maple necks warp without a proper finish....
I've been called worse things!
I've been called worse things!
ItsaBass
New member
Ashurbanipal
Well-known member
Re: maple necks warp without a proper finish....
I should think that if a neck warped to begin with, the wood wasn't dried properly, i.e. long enough. Sometimes it can happen due to the rapidity of the process that wood goes through (kiln drying) versus a recalcitrant piece of wood - big companies don't have the luxury of letting wood dry in a relatively stable environment for 10-20 years; I wonder how much gets thrown away.
Maple, being a good structural wood, is probably less prone, but Warmoth seem to be covering their bases, as has been said.
I should think that if a neck warped to begin with, the wood wasn't dried properly, i.e. long enough. Sometimes it can happen due to the rapidity of the process that wood goes through (kiln drying) versus a recalcitrant piece of wood - big companies don't have the luxury of letting wood dry in a relatively stable environment for 10-20 years; I wonder how much gets thrown away.
Maple, being a good structural wood, is probably less prone, but Warmoth seem to be covering their bases, as has been said.
crusty philtrum
Vintageologist
Re: maple necks warp without a proper finish....
Nah, just a warped mind will do it. It's all about perspective .... one person's curve is another person's straight line.
Nah, just a warped mind will do it. It's all about perspective .... one person's curve is another person's straight line.
crusty philtrum
Vintageologist
Re: maple necks warp without a proper finish....
I'd just like to point out that plenty of maple necks warp with a proper finish, too. Just sayin'.
(also the sound of a guitar can change in different climate conditions, and i suspect that lack of lacker {finish, hehe} would make changes more frequent and more noticeable. Apparently Rory Gallagher's old Strat had so much sweat and grime in the neck wood, he had to take it off and hang it up to dry for several years, replacing it with another neck).
I'd just like to point out that plenty of maple necks warp with a proper finish, too. Just sayin'.
(also the sound of a guitar can change in different climate conditions, and i suspect that lack of lacker {finish, hehe} would make changes more frequent and more noticeable. Apparently Rory Gallagher's old Strat had so much sweat and grime in the neck wood, he had to take it off and hang it up to dry for several years, replacing it with another neck).
constant mesh
New member
Re: maple necks warp without a proper finish....
I have gone through Warmoth's support section and they do not mention any warpage as a warranty factor about hard finishes. However they do say that unfinished neck have limited warranty of 1 year if customers put hard finishes on their neck withing 30 days of purchase.
A maple neck without a finish will get gray spots in a day if it's exposed to sweaty hands. I have seen unfinished maple necks by OLP and EB in music stores that weren't played much and they looked like Clapton's Blackie. Thanks but no thanks. But if you want your neck to look like a 10-years old wooden shed in the backyard you and your father built, then be my guest.
Every possible neck/fb combination can warp. Hard finishes only seal the wood so it prevents moisture escaping or entering. And that's a good thing.
But then there are these crybabies that don't like polyurethane finishes and like their pingpong balls cellulose finish which is in fact a far more inferior polymer than urethanes are today. Ford used nitrocellulose in the beginning for Model T's and such, but soon switched to acrylics right before the 50's. There is no such thing as tone finish or tone lacquer. Those are just things people make themselves believe in order to 'feel' the true value of their instrument. Silly if you ask me. Everything that is put on bare wood will dampen the frequency response a bit. This debate will never get to the conclusion, so this absolutely calls for blind testing.
PRS is considered as one of the most anal and engineering-driven guitar bosses on the planet, but still they finish their guitars with thick layers. Pretty crazy, huh?
I have gone through Warmoth's support section and they do not mention any warpage as a warranty factor about hard finishes. However they do say that unfinished neck have limited warranty of 1 year if customers put hard finishes on their neck withing 30 days of purchase.
A maple neck without a finish will get gray spots in a day if it's exposed to sweaty hands. I have seen unfinished maple necks by OLP and EB in music stores that weren't played much and they looked like Clapton's Blackie. Thanks but no thanks. But if you want your neck to look like a 10-years old wooden shed in the backyard you and your father built, then be my guest.
Every possible neck/fb combination can warp. Hard finishes only seal the wood so it prevents moisture escaping or entering. And that's a good thing.
But then there are these crybabies that don't like polyurethane finishes and like their pingpong balls cellulose finish which is in fact a far more inferior polymer than urethanes are today. Ford used nitrocellulose in the beginning for Model T's and such, but soon switched to acrylics right before the 50's. There is no such thing as tone finish or tone lacquer. Those are just things people make themselves believe in order to 'feel' the true value of their instrument. Silly if you ask me. Everything that is put on bare wood will dampen the frequency response a bit. This debate will never get to the conclusion, so this absolutely calls for blind testing.
PRS is considered as one of the most anal and engineering-driven guitar bosses on the planet, but still they finish their guitars with thick layers. Pretty crazy, huh?
Re: maple necks warp without a proper finish....
i have an esquire that i made, maple neck/rw board, there is no finish any where on the guitar and the neck is stick straight after 8+ years
prs uses a poly finish but im pretty sure its very thin at least on usa models
i have an esquire that i made, maple neck/rw board, there is no finish any where on the guitar and the neck is stick straight after 8+ years
prs uses a poly finish but im pretty sure its very thin at least on usa models
ImmortalSix
John Mayer's Mankini
Re: maple necks warp without a proper finish....
The functional point of a finish is to be a moisture barrier. Oil does that very well.
Oil is a proper finish. Mystery solved.
The functional point of a finish is to be a moisture barrier. Oil does that very well.
constant mesh
New member
Re: maple necks warp without a proper finish....
I didn't mean to say PRS make exceptionally thick finishes, it was just a figure of speech since no one finishes a guitar as thin as a layer of moist breath. Any finish must be at least a few thousands of mm + the average pores depth. More pores mean more paint and more uneven application since pores are not identical in depth and shape.
Never heard anyone say "Gee man, my guitar sound dull, I think it just might have a pore or two too many". But lots of BS on the poly vs. nitro.
Thin coats and poly don't go together, poly is a 2-component finish and is denser than regular solvent based lacquers like nitro. You can't just thin it out with thinner because urethane polymerizes with catalytic hardener and does not rely on thinner. There are some formulations that will guide you through mixing stages, because adding too much thinner might trap it into the finish way before it evaporates completely, because hardener and urethanes already set. A finish like that will feel rubbery.
Gloss is controled with hardener overload, not matte pastes like with acrylics and polyester paints.
Nitro coats on the other hand have to be thin. It has to do with the chemistry of the nitro itself, not with the size of owner's penis. The thicker the coats the more chance to get cracks in finish the first day. Nitro is not completely solid, it will evaporate and shrink slowly over the years on and on as it is organic material and will give the surface a serious cracking patina. Cellulose was so popular back in the 60's and 70's they made all kinds of weird stuff out if it, even pup mounting rings and pickguards. These guitars now suffer from cellulose rot, shrinking and different chemical reactions that are still going on till this day.
I spent quite some time working in my friend's car body shop...
Nitro was designed for coating metal surfaces and somehow got into the guitar industry. Poly is purposely designed for woods but somehow Their Highness The Tone Crowd seem to dislike it for no reason. If you are really bothered with the finish on your guitars, shave them down to bare wood ffs and you never need to worry about finish killing your sound again.
I didn't mean to say PRS make exceptionally thick finishes, it was just a figure of speech since no one finishes a guitar as thin as a layer of moist breath. Any finish must be at least a few thousands of mm + the average pores depth. More pores mean more paint and more uneven application since pores are not identical in depth and shape.
Never heard anyone say "Gee man, my guitar sound dull, I think it just might have a pore or two too many". But lots of BS on the poly vs. nitro.
Thin coats and poly don't go together, poly is a 2-component finish and is denser than regular solvent based lacquers like nitro. You can't just thin it out with thinner because urethane polymerizes with catalytic hardener and does not rely on thinner. There are some formulations that will guide you through mixing stages, because adding too much thinner might trap it into the finish way before it evaporates completely, because hardener and urethanes already set. A finish like that will feel rubbery.
Gloss is controled with hardener overload, not matte pastes like with acrylics and polyester paints.
Nitro coats on the other hand have to be thin. It has to do with the chemistry of the nitro itself, not with the size of owner's penis. The thicker the coats the more chance to get cracks in finish the first day. Nitro is not completely solid, it will evaporate and shrink slowly over the years on and on as it is organic material and will give the surface a serious cracking patina. Cellulose was so popular back in the 60's and 70's they made all kinds of weird stuff out if it, even pup mounting rings and pickguards. These guitars now suffer from cellulose rot, shrinking and different chemical reactions that are still going on till this day.
I spent quite some time working in my friend's car body shop...
Nitro was designed for coating metal surfaces and somehow got into the guitar industry. Poly is purposely designed for woods but somehow Their Highness The Tone Crowd seem to dislike it for no reason. If you are really bothered with the finish on your guitars, shave them down to bare wood ffs and you never need to worry about finish killing your sound again.
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constant mesh
New member
Re: maple necks warp without a proper finish....
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf1987/feist87a.pdf
I don't think so...
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf1987/feist87a.pdf
I don't think so...
ImmortalSix
John Mayer's Mankini
uOpt
Something Cool
Re: maple necks warp without a proper finish....
Music Man uses Tru Oil, which is a hard finish.
Gunstock oil is not.
Music Man uses Tru Oil, which is a hard finish.
Gunstock oil is not.
uOpt
Something Cool
Re: maple necks warp without a proper finish....
Frets off, brutal re-radius, new fret slots.
Frets off, brutal re-radius, new fret slots.
Chickenwings
Alnico 6/8
Re: maple necks warp without a proper finish....
All this is great info. Thanks fellas.
All this is great info. Thanks fellas.
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: maple necks warp without a proper finish....
Warmoth is not saying that they will warp, they are saying they can warp.
Catch is this...ANY neck can warp.
However, a hard finish will reduce the risk or warp.
Also FWIW...EB/MM chooses some of the highest quality maple for their necks that can be bought.
Peavy refused to spend the extra money on the super high grade maple so the Peavy stuff with bare wood necks has graphite rods in the necks.
Also of note...bare wood necks get oiled on a regular basis (or at least they should) and as oil and water do not mix if the neck is saturated with oil it will take on less moisture.
Warmoth is not saying that they will warp, they are saying they can warp.
Catch is this...ANY neck can warp.
However, a hard finish will reduce the risk or warp.
Also FWIW...EB/MM chooses some of the highest quality maple for their necks that can be bought.
Peavy refused to spend the extra money on the super high grade maple so the Peavy stuff with bare wood necks has graphite rods in the necks.
Also of note...bare wood necks get oiled on a regular basis (or at least they should) and as oil and water do not mix if the neck is saturated with oil it will take on less moisture.
Myaccount876
Amira-Maker
Re: maple necks warp without a proper finish....
It looks glossy, feels dull.
Action and truss rod (especially if it is a dual action like on Warmoth Pro) for a warp that is slight to slightly moderate. Severe is severe, and a gonner.
I just checked to make sure, and they do indeed use nitrocellulose. I thought they said they used polyurethane or something to keep costs down and because of the environment. But it does definitely say in bold NITROCELLULOSE so I was wrong. Might have got it confused with something else.
It looks glossy, feels dull.
Action and truss rod (especially if it is a dual action like on Warmoth Pro) for a warp that is slight to slightly moderate. Severe is severe, and a gonner.
I just checked to make sure, and they do indeed use nitrocellulose. I thought they said they used polyurethane or something to keep costs down and because of the environment. But it does definitely say in bold NITROCELLULOSE so I was wrong. Might have got it confused with something else.
