Marshall gurus give me some guidance

[Securb]

I am thinking about picking up a Marshall head. Being a Fender guy I don't know as much about Marshalls as I would like. I keep seeing a Marshall JCM900 4100 Head on CL for $650. Is it a good deal? Is it a good Marshall? I could scour the web for reviews and price matching but I trust you guys more than anonymous bozos on the web.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Marshall gurus give me some guidance

Pick your JCM900 model carefully.....its not the best of the models.

 

[esandes]

Re: Marshall gurus give me some guidance

the 900 is decent and $650 is a reasonable price. it has reverb and more gain than the 800 master volume.

try it out. i'm sure you'll like it.

 

[Nuts]

Re: Marshall gurus give me some guidance

I like this amp. You might need too roll off some treble and presence though, because the amp can sound too bright.
You should know that there are diodes used for clipping, which some people don't like.
The clean channel is great, and the second channel is good for hard rock sounds.
Good luck.

 

[LLL]

Re: Marshall gurus give me some guidance

I am thinking about picking up a Marshall head. Being a Fender guy I don't know as much about Marshalls as I would like. I keep seeing a Marshall JCM900 4100 Head on CL for $650. Is it a good deal? Is it a good Marshall? I could scour the web for reviews and price matching but I trust you guys more than anonymous bozos on the web.

I don't know what kind of amps you like, but I definitely don't like 900s, am "alright" with 800s and in love with plexi and metal panels. And yes I am a Marshall-head.

 

[Securb]

Re: Marshall gurus give me some guidance

Pick your JCM900 model carefully.....its not the best of the models.

For what reasons?

I like this amp. You might need too roll off some treble and presence though, because the amp can sound too bright.

Good to know. Coming from the Fender camp I don't think brightness will be an issue.

I don't know what kind of amps you like, but I definitely don't like 900s

What don't you like about the amp?

 

[LLL]

Re: Marshall gurus give me some guidance

What don't you like about the amp?

If the term "jar of angry buzzing bees" sounds familiar... :laugh:

Starting with the first Marshall Master Volumes (2203, 2204), the Marshall tone started getting more (for lack of a better term), "fizzy" buzzy and thinner.

This is the inherent behavior of the master volume circuit. Preamp gain overshadowed the poweramp section.

The 80's rock and metal genres are a fantastic example of master volume preamp gain tone.

As the gain got higher with concurrent models (JCM800 line, JCM900 line, etc) said "fizz" and thinness became more prominent.

The old non-master Marshall designs simply roar with thick juicy crunchy tone when cranked up.

That's not to say they all sucked, but there is a noticeable difference between the master volume amps and the old plexis and 4 hole metal panels.

Other than that, I'd say the JCM900 is one of, if not the least, desired line of Marshall in the last few decades.

 

[chadd]

Re: Marshall gurus give me some guidance

4100/4500 sound great when cranked and not very good at bedroom volume. If I recall correctly, one of the gain knobs dials in more clipping from diodes and not tube distortion. If you use that gain knob sparingly (or not at all), the amps sound great. If you crank up the diode gain, it will get that can o' bees tone that people complain about.

 

[JimmyO]

Re: Marshall gurus give me some guidance

What kind of Marshall tone are you looking for? More modern high gain rock/metal or more of the classic crunch the vintage models have? If it's the more classic tone I can highly recommend the amps from Avatar speakers. I have the 45 watt JTM45 clone and it is amazing, and only a few hundred more than the amp you are looking at. They are more versatile than a true reissue and have a master volume and a footswitch to go between normal and jumpered mode to give a gain boost. It would cover your Marshall tones from the 60s to early 80s and takes pedals well if you need more gain.

The only way to tell if you like the JCM900 would be to try one out and see if you like the clean and gain tones. I personally haven't played one but I don't really like the gain channel on the DSL which is the amp that followed the JCM900, though I like the crunch mode on the clean channel.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Marshall gurus give me some guidance

4100/4500 sound great when cranked and not very good at bedroom volume. If I recall correctly, one of the gain knobs dials in more clipping from diodes and not tube distortion. If you use that gain knob sparingly (or not at all), the amps sound great. If you crank up the diode gain, it will get that can o' bees tone that people complain about.

You're thinking of the wrong amps. The 2100/2500 had 2 gain knobs not the 4100's the. Even then the signal always goes through the diodes whether you turned up the knob or not.

The 4100's are the dual channel models.

People venerate the 2100's as having a more pure tone but the truth is both models have solid state clipping and sound really close to each other when played loud.


Bottom line on the 900's are they are cool amps IF that tone is what your after. Most guys would be hard pressed to tell any of them apart when played loud. They are a bargain too and can be had cheap. As someone who owns multiple Marshalls ive owned a 4100 since 1991 and its never crossed my mind to sell it. But it does what it does the guys who hate on them are either trying to make them do something they arent suppose to or merely repeating internet crap.

BTW dont let the diodes in the preamp scare you away. Many amps including ones by splawn and cameron, etc have diodes in them, Even the venerated Marshall Jubilee that everyone gets a hardon about has a bunch of diodes in the preamp.

Here are a couple vids to help you decide if the 900's are worth checking out

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Marshall gurus give me some guidance

 

[Securb]

Re: Marshall gurus give me some guidance

The 80's rock and metal genres are a fantastic example of master volume preamp gain tone.

...and that sir is perfect. My bread and butter are 80's hard rock and metal tones.

4100/4500 sound great when cranked and not very good at bedroom volume.

I have practice amps for bedroom volumes. This would be for gigs and rehearsals.

Bottom line on the 900's are they are cool amps IF that tone is what your after. Most guys would be hard pressed to tell any of them apart when played loud. They are a bargain too and can be had cheap. As someone who owns multiple Marshalls ive owned a 4100 since 1991 and its never crossed my mind to sell it. But it does what it does the guys who hate on them are either trying to make them do something they arent suppose to or merely repeating internet crap.

Thanks EC that is a ringing endorsement, especially seeing you own one.

 

[JeffB]

Re: Marshall gurus give me some guidance

If the sound of an 800 with a jacked up Tubescreamer floats your boat, then a 900 will most likely appeal to you. They are buzzy in general, but some folks get good tones out of them. Personally not a fan of any of the diode clippers..900s, joobies or the 2205/2210. That's from experience. I had a 900 DR and the combo version of the 2202205 which I ran into 4x12 and 2x12s.

Play it yourself and see.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Marshall gurus give me some guidance

...and that sir is perfect. My bread and butter are 80's hard rock and metal tones.



I have practice amps for bedroom volumes. This would be for gigs and rehearsals.



Thanks EC that is a ringing endorsement, especially seeing you own one.

yep you'll probably enjoy the 900. I played a 900 half stack for nearly 10 years.
However - the no reverb dual master volume MKIII 900's are the pick of the bunch. Much fatter, warmer and more touch responsive. If you see one of those, jump on it.

 

[LLL]

Re: Marshall gurus give me some guidance

Aside from the soloing test (Sweet Child O' Mine intro using neck pickups isn't going to show much of a difference between them), that is a great sounding demo.

Here's what I hear:

1959: Big balls and cutting upper mid grind, warm (mids), dynamic
JCM800: Big balls, cutting upper mid grind, clank (mids slightly scooped compared to 1959), dynamic
JCM900: Smaller balls, thinner EQ and less dynamic than the 1959 and JCM800

 

[chadd]

Re: Marshall gurus give me some guidance

...and that sir is perfect. My bread and butter are 80's hard rock and metal tones.



I have practice amps for bedroom volumes. This would be for gigs and rehearsals.

A friend of mine has been using one for a long time and has some of the best tones for that kind of stuff that I have ever heard live. He runs his 4500 completely dimed with a heavy blanket over it (mic is under the blanket) to control stage volume.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Marshall gurus give me some guidance

I have the SL-X version and the difference between fizzy and sweet tube distortion in mine was the choice of tubes. When it had Tesla EL-34Ms and a Mullard 10M 12AX7 in V1, it was the perfect early 70's AC/DC, Deep Purple, Free, James Gang, you name it Plexi tone. When it had Svetlana EL-34s and Sovtek 12AX7s it was nasty pure fizz-city. It can run at 50 or 100 watt.

$650 is a good/fair price.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Marshall gurus give me some guidance

To an earlier question, the 900 had some of the models being very fizzy and not nice at all....I think I owned this one back in the day as that tone sound familiar.
There was another model that was much better, but I can't remember what model I had or which one was described as being the pick of the 900's.

 

[LLL]

Re: Marshall gurus give me some guidance

Sovtek 12AX7s (aside from the LPS version) are crap. Those are the tubes you have as spares in case your backup spares fail ya. :laugh:

I did a new-manufacture preamp tube tone test 10 years ago and the Sovtek 12AX7WAs (IIRC) had the worst top end of the whole bunch.

Very fizzy and little clarity.

However the Sovtek 12AX7 LPS were very detailed in the top end.. almost too detailed.

 

[El Supremo]

Re: Marshall gurus give me some guidance

The 900 series has diode clipping like some later versions of the 800 and the JMP-1 preamp. A little fizzier top end ,but they do have more gain than earlier 800 series and its forerunner, the JMP MV series.
If you want to refrain from using boost pedals, the 900 series will probably be the best bet out of the two.