Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

[J Moose]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

I think it's mostly a problem with the 2x12 just blowing away his shoes but nothing else...

Could be likely...

Another thing to consider is that an open back cab disperses sound fairly evenly, especially in close quarters, while a closed back cab projects outwards and the sound doesn't really develop for several feet.

That being the case, it's entirely possible that a 4x12 cab won't help things.

Yet another possibility is that one of the speakers is blown... driving a short & impedance mismatch which would eat a lot of power.

A healthy JTM45 with a closed back 2x12 cab, regardless of speakers... volume on 10 should keep with or even blow a Deville clear into last week.

 

[Hot _Grits]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

I dunno, The last two JTM45s I've played have been polite volume-wise. Useable in most stage situations, but my old 2x12 deville would easily have been able to get over the top of them...

 

[Gr8Scott]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

JTM-45 is a painfully loud amp. Sounds like a weak cab or speakers.

 

[C-Martin]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

Getting the other guy to change amp is impossible where we're not rich and cant really afford buying amps all the time, and as for the volume like i said he already is limiting his sound just because of this problem barely even hitting 2 on the volume where he could crank it up higher and get the tones he would really wants. Pretty much like any of you if someone tells you to turn your stuff down and change your settings im pretty sure you wont really want to since most of us probably work hard in our search for those tones we really like.

So if the 1922 sucks any suggestion on what cab i could get? 1936 any better or just go for the 1960 with a 4x12 setup? or just switching to the G12H? This amp and cab i bought years ago for the purpose of my own home "entertainment" and never really bought these to use at gigs and such, i'd have probably bought a 4x12 instead for that.. and as for the settings i cant really boost up the highs and such because then it becomes literally painful and harsh sounding, i can hear myself just slightly better if i do that but its just painful and i've been told often to lower the treble because it gets a bit like an ice pick if i try to boost em too much.

Btw i play mainly heavy type stuff with some cleaner parts mixed in and van halen'ish type solos thrown in somewhere if this is any needed info..

 

[Gr8Scott]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

More speakers equals more volume. Try the 1960 and load it with G12H30 speakers. It won't be cheap, but you'll get much more volume that way. The G12H30's also sound great with a JTM-45. That's what I use with my open back Edana.

 

[C-Martin]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

maybe just getting a 1960AHW Handwired Cab would do the trick, it says to already come loaded with G12H-30 re-issues

 

[J Moose]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

Replacing the celestion 75s would probably go a long ways... buying another Marshall cab probably won't. IMO they're pretty overrated & expensive for what they are... much better deals to be had on other things. Especially used cabs. Try to rent or borrow a few before you blindly buy something.

The JTM45 loves Greenbacks, that's the traditional pairing. They're also not "metal" amps... Maybe that's something to think about, a whole new amp?!

Don't underestimate the open back vs. closed back thing...

And getting the cabinet up off the ground.

 

[kmcguitars]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

Don't underestimate the open back vs. closed back thing...

And getting the cabinet up off the ground.

A Big + 1. I had a SF Showman (100watts) on 8 !! sitting on my 2x12 closed back Cab. I couldn't hear myself?? My pants cuffs where fluttering & Everyone
10ft. in front of me had napkins in their ears.:eyecrazy: I traded up and got a SF Twin. I never had a problem hearing myself. ( Although that didn't solve the problem with the people w/t napkin's in their ears) LOL!! If your playing in a LOUD band ,In a small place? Open back is the way to go. I had a JTM 45 on loan for a few months... That amp was loud enough to piss off my neighbors .
my guess is you have a projection problem .

 

[James Rock]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

And getting the cabinet up off the ground.

Should improve tone too as usually with 12's you can't hear much high end when the cabs at floor level as it doesn't diffract as much (meaning doesn't spread out over a small distance as much as lower frequencies). Get it off the floor and put some G12H-30s in there and you should find an improvement in cut and volume.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

If you get a 4x12 you will have the opposite problem, the deville will be BLOWN AWAY!!! I'd order an avatar cab with 2 G12H30s or an H30/V30 mix.

You could buy new speakers, but if you don't buy used you would probably come out just slightly cheaper than buying the avatar cab.

Luke

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

I think an Avatar is yer best bet, and I also wouldn't go for a 4x12...truth is if your JTM-45 is running correctly and you sit it on a 2x12 with H30's or V30's you'll be killing tht DeVille if you want to...

 

[C-Martin]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

problem is i live in canada.. they dont ship here

ill have to find an alternative way to get a cab with G12Hs but i think that seems to be what most of you suggest to do and it makes sense.. i;m just wondering tho those G12Hs are 30 watt meaning they break up easier right? hows the clean sound on them? most important is the gain sounds i get from it but i do need something that can clean up nice..

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

I dunno, The last two JTM45s I've played have been polite volume-wise. Useable in most stage situations, but my old 2x12 deville would easily have been able to get over the top of them...

I have seen this problem with some of the re-issue bluesbreaker combos. On a large stage, with other amps that have a lot of cut, they can sound sound like there's a wet blanket thrown over them. In my experience the originals and the botiques are very loud, but some of the re-issues are not . I know of one case were an example sounded okay but not very loud, and it had a defective output transformer. I would get the amp checked by a tech before trying anything else.

I suspect in some cases the combonation of 5881's and the OPT impedence mismatch of the re-issue can be a big part of the problem.

To the OP: If the amp checks out as otherwise healthy by the tech, then I would go to EL34 tubes and a plug in SS rectifier and of course a re-bias. Have the tech do this. That will make it noticably louder. Also you need 100db sensitivity speakers, either the G12H or V30 or both. If expenses are such that a new (Avatar cab perhaps?) are impractile, then getting some Emi Wizards and putting them in your present cab is another option.

 

[C-Martin]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

I have seen this problem with some of the re-issue bluesbreaker combos. On a large stage, with other amps that have a lot of cut, they can sound sound like there's a wet blanket thrown over them. In my experience the originals and the botiques are very loud, but some of the re-issues are not . I know of one case were an example sounded okay but not very loud, and it had a defective output transformer. I would get the amp checked by a tech before trying anything else.

I suspect in some cases the combonation of 5881's and the OPT impedence mismatch of the re-issue can be a big part of the problem.

To the OP: If the amp checks out as otherwise healthy by the tech, then I would go to EL34 tubes and a plug in SS rectifier and of course a re-bias. Have the tech do this. That will make it noticably louder. Also you need 100db sensitivity speakers, either the G12H or V30 or both. If expenses are such that a new (Avatar cab perhaps?) are impractile, then getting some Emi Wizards and putting them in your present cab is another option.

as i said before... the amp has been recently serviced and shuld be working great, has been completly revamped with new transformer, caps, KT66 power tubes, Mullard preamp tubes and rectifier tube. The amp is practicly new and no longer the stock reissue but more like an upgraded version with closer to the original specs

 

[Gr8Scott]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

The cleans out of those G12H30's are great. I think they will be superior to the speakers you are currently using in terms of good cleans.

 

[xxxplorer]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

I would say without much doubt that the cab has something to do with it. I am borrowing (actually using as a beer table!) a 1922. When I plug into it (has those GT-75s) my sound is MUCH smaller and noticeably quieter compared to my earcandy (not a fair comparison though), or even my Peavey 412ms which has similarly voiced speakers but not as low in the dBs... also 4 instead of 2! If you are on a budget try and find some used efficient speakers, if you can afford a new cab give Earcandy consideration, but Avatar is great bang for the buck. Also I always wanted to try a Port City Wave!

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

as i said before... the amp has been recently serviced and shuld be working great, has been completly revamped with new transformer, caps, KT66 power tubes, Mullard preamp tubes and rectifier tube. The amp is practicly new and no longer the stock reissue but more like an upgraded version with closer to the original specs

I see...but that even more causes me to suspect that somethings wrong, because there should not be that much of a disparity even with the speakers/cab issue. What are the B+ and plate voltages? Although the rectifier tube is new that doesn't necessarily mean that it's working right.

Several years ago I had a bassman that sounded like it had about 5 watts. It was just a pre-amp tube, a new pre-amp tube but a bad one anyway.

On edit: I still think that EL34's and a SS rectifier will help in this particular situation.

 

[C-Martin]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

I see...but that even more causes me to suspect that somethings wrong, because there should not be that much of a disparity even with the speakers/cab issue. What are the B+ and plate voltages? Although the rectifier tube is new that doesn't necessarily mean that it's working right.

Several years ago I had a bassman that sounded like it had about 5 watts. It was just a pre-amp tube, a new pre-amp tube but a bad one anyway.

On edit: I still think that EL34's and a SS rectifier will help in this particular situation.

i have no idea what you mean by B+ and plate voltage, like i said when it comes to amp circuitry i let others with more experience than me do that kinda stuff because i dont know much about it. I do know that he tested the tubes and everything and the amp itself and made sure everything was working great and the guy has a good reputation and allot of experience, he repairs tons of amps every day hes not some dude in his garage hes got his own repair shop so its pretty much as good as i can get it done.. because i cant really open my amp and go check for myself, ill have no idea whatsoever what im doing.

Theres a possibility the speakers might be damaged too, that cab is really old and has seen allot of moving and was also bought used 6 years ago so i'm considering getting a new cab or just getting new speakers for it but i keep hearing that the cab itself isnt very good so maybe just getting a new cab would be best.. i can afford getting one but i'm just trying to get as much info as i can so i dont make any unnecessary purchase or any mistakes resulting in more problems.. G12Hs so far seem like something safe to go with tho from what most of you tell me, ive tried a cab with V30s and didnt like em but could be diferent setup/amp/guitar that did that too, been wanting to try G12H and from sound clips and info i keep reading it seems like something i could work with

 

[Stratman]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

More speakers equals more volume. Try the 1960 and load it with G12H30 speakers. It won't be cheap, but you'll get much more volume that way. The G12H30's also sound great with a JTM-45. That's what I use with my open back Edana.

On my Edana, which has GEC KT-66 tubes and a GZ34 rectifier, I use 2-12 inch Jensen taken out of a 1967 Fender Twin, in an open cabinet.

It is quite loader than any Fender Blues DeVille 410 can ever think of reaching and has much better tone.

Same for my reissue JTM-45 and my Bluesbreaker - much louder than the Fender Blues DeVille. I bet that when I finish wiring up my Ceriatone that it will also be louder than that style fender.

PLUS - the tone (Jumped channels) out of a JTM-45 style amp is much better than that out of fender blues deville, the only fender amps that have a tonal chance is the super reverb and vibroverb.

 

[Bludave]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

So the other guitarist in the band i play in uses a fender tweed deluxe amp, 60 watt trough 4x10 speakers combo. I use a JTM-45 head with a 1922 2x12 speaker cab.. problem is my marshall cant get near as loud has his amp and he often does'nt even get past 2 on the volume so i'm wondering if i get a 4x12 cab will i get louder or at least have more presence or if i should just go ahead and get a higher wattage amp or something... Is the 60 vs 30 watt diference that big?

I really don't want to because i love how my jtm sounds especially where its been recently fitted with new KT66 tesla tubes and some nos Mullard 12ax7 in the preamp, new transformer, etc.. a whole rebuilt was done in it and it sounds awesome but we just did a show yesterday and i could'nt hear nothing at all comming from my amp, could've just been unpluged and not make a difference for me i was just playing the stuff because i knew the songs by heart and its kinda dumb imo to be playing lead and solos if you cant even hear what your doing especialy where i sort of improvise sometimes.. worst part is we where miced so apparently people heared me just i could'nt hear **** on stage

You need better a better stage monitoring system, not a new amp. The difference between a 30W and a 40W is barely noticeable in volume. The difference will be in headroom.