Marshall: JTM or JCM whats the difference?

[unleashthejay]

I want to get a Marshall combo and I was wondering what the difference is between a JTM and a JCM? or the numbers they have like a jcm 800 to a jcm 2000 and 900 whats the difference? I want to play hendrix and van halen on it which one would be better if any? are they good clean

 

[Armotron]

Re: Marshall: JTM or JCM whats the difference?

The JTM 45 was the first Marshall ever made back in the early 60s. It has KT66s tubes a tube rectifier, and no master volume and is around 30-45 watts. Clapton used it for the Bluesbreakers album probabally making it most famous there. Its supposed to be really good clean with a good marshall breakup too. I just got one built by Scott_F.

The JCM 800 are higher gain master volume amps, from the 80s I think. I don't know much about the differences between the JCMs....

Maybe if you like playing Hendrix and Halen a good amp would be like a Plexi Reissue or Clone with EL34s. A JTM would be good too but with less gain and overdrive then the Plexis.

 

[unleashthejay]

Re: Marshall: JTM or JCM whats the difference?

how or where can I get a clone or one made?

 

[john5959]

Re: Marshall: JTM or JCM whats the difference?

The Marshall DSL 100 half stack sounds awesome IMO. It's got a great clean sound and it's got balls.

 

[Armotron]

Re: Marshall: JTM or JCM whats the difference?

how or where can I get a clone or one made?

You could find used 1987xl 50 watt, 1959SLP 100watt, or JTM45 Reissues on Ebay, considering new from Marshall are pretty expensive.

Or you could get one made from a number of makers, one I'd recommend who I just bought a handmade JTM45 for an insanely low price is Scott_F here on the forum. Amazing guy... I'd check him out for a plexi clone before he starts charging what he should. www.celticamps.com

 

[JeffB]

Re: Marshall: JTM or JCM whats the difference?

I want to get a Marshall combo and I was wondering what the difference is between a JTM and a JCM? or the numbers they have like a jcm 800 to a jcm 2000 and 900 whats the difference? I want to play hendrix and van halen on it which one would be better if any? are they good clean

MArshalls are a PITA with all the designations...

Basically the JTM 45 is as Armotron described. It's a nastier, brighter Fender Bassman. Great clean, for dirty blues, up to Angus Young type stuff.

Then the PLexiface and metalface amps came along..again, no MV...SuperLeads (model1959)..Super Bass (1968), 1987 (50 watt MKII)...etc...these are the "classic" marshall sounds...Hendrix, cream, zep, VH, even guys like Maiden and Schenker (50 watt metalfaces) they all differ a bit, but generally the metalfaces from 72 and beyond are brighter, crunchier, tighter and have a bit more gain.

Then the JMP series rolled around in the mid 70s...the first Master Volume amps...though the NMVs were in that series as well, IIRC...like the later metalfaces, these were brighter, crunchier, more gain.

Then the JCM800 series came out...2203/04s being the "classic" of this series...very similar to the JMP MV heads....this is the sound of most 80s metal...lotta guys had 'em modded for more gain. Also the 800 channel switchers came out too...these had more gain than a 2203/2204.

Then came the JCM 900s...basically Marshalls own version of the "modded 800"..the MKIII high gain was/is a good amp...the Dual Reverb generally is less highly spoken of...mine sucked quite frankly, but I've heard some decent ones. In general the 900s had the gain everyone wanted but lacked the "balls" of the 800s...but again some 900s sound very good..

Then in the nineties, Marshall started using the JTM moniker again...on their "budget" tube combos...30 and 60 watt amps...they had a good tone, but were plagued with problems...and were quickly overhauled and re-released as the JCM 600 series...

They also then brought out a 900 series SLX or something like that...I'm not real familar with those...

Then the current DSL/TSL amps which try and emulate alot of the classic marshall sounds along with adding some new ones...an more versatility(basically 800 series, 900 series, and super high gain scoopy modern tones).

The thing with marshalls is...they are like guitars...no two ever seem to sound the same, even the same exact guitar....some are absolutely godly..most are pretty good, and then there are some dogs. I also find that the simpler the circuit, the better they sound...my opinion of course.

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: Marshall: JTM or JCM whats the difference?

Jeff B, that's an outstanding overview.

 

[Rich_S]

Re: Marshall: JTM or JCM whats the difference?

Yeah, but unleashthejay said he was looking for a Marshall combo, and there aren't as many of those to choose from.

Are you saying "combo" because you want to do Hendrix and VH in your bedroom? Or are you planning to gig with this amp?

In my experience, the 4010 is a great little amp - it's the JCM800, 50-watt, master volume, single-channel, 1x12 combo. It's small enough to move around conveniently, but packs enough power for gigs. If you want more whoomph, it'll drive a 4x12 cab, same as any 50-watt head. It's not a plexi for sure, but it splits the difference between plexis and newer higher-gain amps. The single-channel version is definitely in line with JeffB's "the simpler the circuit..." theory, with which I wholehearted agree.

There are 2x12 versions, but they're a bear to lug around (trust me -- been there, done that). I'd rather have the 1x12 with the option of an extra cabinet when I want/need it.

If you're not planning on gigging big rooms, 50 watts is more than you need. I happen to think my 18 Watter clone does a pretty good "Marshall" sound, but you're going to find a lot of people who disagree. My particular amp is actually only 13 watts, but it's still too much for strictly bedroom use. I use a Weber MASS attenuator at home, and the amp's loud enough for small gigs without it.

There's also a thing called the "6V6 Plexi" that the DIY builders like - they think 6V6 output tubes do a better job of imitating the plexi tone (than the 18 watters EL84's) but at a managable ~25 watts instead of 50. IMO, this is the simple combo Marshall should be building, but doesn't. (Scott_F, are you listening?)

 

[ErikH]

Re: Marshall: JTM or JCM whats the difference?

Nice Jeff. You got it. As for the JCM900 SL-X, they are practically the same as the MkIII with an additional pre-amp tube, designated as the MkIV Master Volumes. Good with EL34's, buzzy and gutless with 5881's.

 

[Bludave]

Re: Marshall: JTM or JCM whats the difference?

I have a 50w MArsall 900 combo. It works well for me. I have had it over 10 years now and I have never really had any trouble with it. It gives me the tones I want/need to do similar things. I do not use a lot of gain, I am basically a blues/blues/rock kind of player. I have the gain set at about 5 or 6 on the drive side, the clean sound I seem to get pretty decent sounds out of. I don't use the clean to much. I A/b this amp with a SF Super reverb so I use the Fender for more clean stuff. As far as portability the Marshall 900 Combo is one of the lightest Amps I have ever used. It weighs about 50lbs so by comparison to my SR or a few other amps I have used over the years it is a joy to carry around. Some people will tell you that you will get a much bigger sound with a head/cab arrangement. I agree, but in most situations it is a lot to carry espicially when your gig is on the third floor and no elevator. With a Good PA and sound guy these little combos really can sound terrific! The one thing I can say I do not like about this Amp is the effects loop. I think the preamp is also solid state... not sure, but the crunch on this amp is slightly delayed behind the actual note you play and when I use Delay which runs thru the loop it tends to clip the note slightly. Other than that I really like the tones I get from this Amp. Bottom line is go play thru a variety of them and see which one will work for you.

 

[Simon_F]

Re: Marshall: JTM or JCM whats the difference?

This site has a good summary of Marshalls through the ages......

http://www.drtube.com/marshall.htm

It's pretty much as Jeff decribed. :beerchug:

 

[kmcguitars]

Re: Marshall: JTM or JCM whats the difference?

The thing with marshalls is...they are like guitars...no two ever seem to sound the same, even the same exact guitar....some are absolutely godly..most are pretty good, and then there are some dogs. I also find that the simpler the circuit, the better they sound...my opinion of course.

No Truer words have ever been spoken. This is why I've been gun shy in buying a Marshall. I've played thru some that where Godly,And offered the owner $$$ on the spot. But those are never for sale.:gurmpy: I 've played thru some that felt like throwing in the dumpster outback. I find the the JCM 800 series amps seem to all have there own personallity. Kinda like picking out a puppy from the pound... Is it gonna be mans best friend? or is it gonna poop all over my carpet's for the next ten years.

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Marshall: JTM or JCM whats the difference?

No Truer words have ever been spoken. This is why I've been gun shy in buying a Marshall. I've played thru some that where Godly,And offered the owner $$$ on the spot. But those are never for sale.:gurmpy: I 've played thru some that felt like throwing in the dumpster outback. I find the the JCM 800 series amps seem to all have there own personallity. Kinda like picking out a puppy from the pound... Is it gonna be mans best friend? or is it gonna poop all over my carpet's for the next ten years.

I agree 100% with Jeff B about no two Marshalls ever sounding the same,but it's the same thing with Fender amps also and other same amp models side by side....It's called "part tolerences"....It's not magic,it's just electronics...Things like pot values and differences in carbon resistors,caps values,etc,all makes a difference in what we hear and feel(For sure)..:beerchug: :burnout:

 

[J Moose]

Re: Marshall: JTM or JCM whats the difference?

Then came the JCM 900s...basically Marshalls own version of the "modded 800"..the MKIII high gain was/is a good amp...the Dual Reverb generally is less highly spoken of...mine sucked quite frankly, but I've heard some decent ones. In general the 900s had the gain everyone wanted but lacked the "balls" of the 800s...but again some 900s sound very good..

They also then brought out a 900 series SLX or something like that...I'm not real familar with those...

I really dispise the channel switching 900's and so does just about everyone I know. Yah, occasionally you'll find one that sounds good but the vast majority of 'em aren't anything to write home about. Lacking "ballz" is a good description for 'em but I'd add words like '2-dimensional' and 'sterile' to the list. They're mostly solid-state with a massive PC board layout which makes them pretty much impossible to mod, or at least I couldn't find anyone who would. The 900 SLX's are a different story though. The handful that I've come across sound pretty damn good and have more personality then the channel switching 900's. Maybe I've only come across good one's but they've batted around .850 compared to the .113 that the channel switchers do!

Then the current DSL/TSL amps which try and emulate alot of the classic marshall sounds along with adding some new ones...an more versatility(basically 800 series, 900 series, and super high gain scoopy modern tones).

IMO the DSL's seem to be better then TSL's. It's a YMMV thing but generally they're quicker to dial in, more responsive to playing dynamics and just sound cooler then the TSL's which seem to have this weird phasey thing in the midrange of the dirt channels. The DSL's also have a really great clean sound that rivals a Fender Twin or Dlx and is highly usable! I gave up looking for a good & affordable 800 and almost bought a DSL 50 when I stumbled on a ragged 800 50-watt channel switcher. My tech and I devised some mods for the dirt channel & it's way hipper now. Some guys have said that it reminds them of a Jubilee which isn't suprising since thats what we based 'em on! It lacks the real bottom push that the DSL's have and it still needs to be cranked to sound it's best...not really a bedroom amp but it kicks butt for recordin' & gigin'!

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: Marshall: JTM or JCM whats the difference?

I agree that the DSL heads are the best of the modern line up. With the JCM2000 series amps they got away from having combo amps that were essentially using the same chassis as that range's 50 watt, or in rare cases 100 watt tube heads. The DSL401 or what ever they call it doesn't use the same EL34 power amp as the DSL heads. I think from a circut design perspective the DSL heads are as good examples of modern, channel switching, high gain amps as any thing out there. Unlike, the channel switching amps from the previous two decades the DSL doesn't use diode clipping. Not that Diode clipping is real bad or anything, as it works fine in Silver Jubilee, and JCM800 2105 type channel switching amps. The DSL uses an extra preamp tube instead and it's a more likable design to the tube purist.

On the other hand, the various parts of the quality, and the build quality, used in the older Marshall amps just can't be used today in production amps, and still offer an affordable instrument, that is also profitable to the company. Additionaly, in the older amps, you get flying leads and chassis mounted tubes.

For playing Hendrix and VH with a combo, a used or new Blues Breaker combo re-issue is an excellant choice, especially if you switch to EL34's, and use a few well chosen pedals. The vintage re-issue series still use flying leads and chassis mounted tubes.

The JCM 800 era amps like the JCM800 chanel switching combos, and if you can find em for decent, the Silver Jubilee combos are good choices too.

True vintage Marshall combo's are exceedingly rare. You rarely find one for sale....

 

[Jeff_H]

Re: Marshall: JTM or JCM whats the difference?

I've got a JCM 800 4212, which is the 2205 (50watt, 2 channels) circuit in a 2x12 combo. There is a 4210, which is the 1x12 version. Both of these are 50 watts. The 100 watt versions have a 1x12 and a 2x12 combo as well, which are the same circuit as the 2210...100 watt, 2 channel head. Yeah, it's a little heavy, but IMO the sound of a 2x12 is closer to the sound of a head and cab than a 1x12. It all depends on what you want.

Mine weighs in at over 50 lbs, but I wouldn't trade it for anything. It was a pretty good amp stock. Useable clean channel and an awsome crunch channel. I had it modded an now it's fender clean and all the marshall tone you could ever want.

 

[ErikH]

Re: Marshall: JTM or JCM whats the difference?

With the JCM2000 series amps they got away of having combo amps that were essentially using the same chassis as that range's 50 watt, or in rare cases 100 watt tube heads.

This isn't anything new. They've been doing that since the JCM800 era. All they'd do is flip the chasis upside down so the tubes hang down, apply the control text in the readable orientation and wala, combo chasis.

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: Marshall: JTM or JCM whats the difference?

I'm sorry for possibly being confusing. They don't do this with the DSL range. The DSL combos use a different circut from the heads, although the 2x12 TSL combo is essentialy like the TSL head. The DSL combos use EL84 tubes. While this seems like a very good idea ( easier pushed EL84's at a lower volume), it's too bad that they didn't simply take the DSL50 chassis and flip it over blues breaker like, as the DSL head looks to be superior to the DSL401 in terms of build and parts quality. Moreover the DSL heads seem to be the best sounding of the modern Marshalls, even run through 2x12 open back speakers.

 

[ErikH]

Re: Marshall: JTM or JCM whats the difference?

I'm sorry for possibly being confusing. They don't do this with the DSL range. The DSL combos use a different circut from the heads, although the 2x12 TSL combo is essentialy like the TSL head. The DSL combos use EL84 tubes. While this seems like a very good idea ( easier pushed EL84's at a lower volume), it's too bad that they didn't simply take the DSL50 chassis and flip it over blues breaker like, as the DSL head looks to be superior to the DSL401 in terms of build and parts quality. Moreover the DSL heads seem to be the best sounding of the modern Marshalls, even run through 2x12 open back speakers.

No wonder I don't like the DSL combos. For some reason, I could never get them to sound good to me. I guess I'm just not an EL84 guy. Too used to the sound of EL34's.

 

[JeffB]

Re: Marshall: JTM or JCM whats the difference?

They don't make any other DSL combos besides the 40 watter... It's just TSLs ...60 watt and 100 watts