Matchless let down...

[the guy who invented fire]

I went today and spent a good bit of time with a Matchelss Phoenix 2x12. I have to say it was the biggest let down gear wise I have had in years. The cleans were good, nice full but edgy cleans (no reverb whish was a drag) but a nice clean tone, mind you it didn't floor me but it was good. As soon as I went past clean it was terrible. Be it pushed w/o the master volume or using the master to get crunch it sounded bad. To be 100% honest I would rather have played throught just about anything else they had in the store. I might try to hunt down one more Matchless amp to give it a shot but I have to say that thus far I am very disappointed.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Matchless let down...

Shoulda tried a Chieftan. :laugh2: That's the one we've been bragging up.

Don't know anything at all about the Phoenix.

Lew

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Matchless let down...

Well...there are no Matchless dealers close by and this Phoenix popped up used. I was also excited to try it because it has an EF86 front end and I love the tone of an amp with an EF86 for the first stage of the preamp. I looked at the specs...EF86 front end, simple controls, master volume, tube rect, 2 El34's, I figured I couldn't loose...this amp didn't have it at all, I lost big time.

 

[B Bent]

Re: Matchless let down...

Was it that red one at GC? I can't remember the model of it.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Matchless let down...

Well...there are no Matchless dealers close by and this Phoenix popped up used. I was also excited to try it because it has an EF86 front end and I love the tone of an amp with an EF86 for the first stage of the preamp. I looked at the specs...EF86 front end, simple controls, master volume, tube rect, 2 El34's, I figured I couldn't loose...this amp didn't have it at all, I lost big time.

I went to Harmony Central just now and checked out the reviews of the Phoenix and pretty much all of them were in the high 9's...so I guess alot of folks do like that amp alot.

Never tried one myself, so I have no opinion on it at all.

Is it a Mark Samson design or one that came about after he left the company?

Here's the link to it on Matchless website: http://matchlessamplifiers.com/match23_phoenix.html

Hope you get to try a Matchless Chieftan someday in a nice relaxed setting where you can really check one out. That's the one, IMO.

Lew

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Matchless let down...

One reason I've said "Matchless amps aren't for everyone" is for the reason that the gain isn't really a singing type of gain. It's more of a control for putting the clean tone right at the edge of breakup. If you try to dime the gain on any Matchless amp, it sounds like a rats nest. For that sound, you're right, most other amps in the store will do it better. If you approach that amp like a Bassman, getting a big fat clean tone, then use the gain to nudge it up to the breakup point.....THAT'S what the amp does best.

They're too expensive to buy without hearing. Not everyone likes them after buying them, which is why you still see them come up for sale. I've plugged into a few Matchless amps and didn't care for them either.......I'm not real big on the Clubman or Lightning.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Matchless let down...

One reason I've said "Matchless amps aren't for everyone" is for the reason that the gain isn't really a singing type of gain. It's more of a control for putting the clean tone right at the edge of breakup. If you try to dime the gain on any Matchless amp, it sounds like a rats nest. For that sound, you're right, most other amps in the store will do it better. If you approach that amp like a Bassman, getting a big fat clean tone, then use the gain to nudge it up to the breakup point.....THAT'S what the amp does best.

They're too expensive to buy without hearing. Not everyone likes them after buying them, which is why you still see them come up for sale. I've plugged into a few Matchless amps and didn't care for them either.......I'm not real big on the Clubman or Lightning.

Boy...what a great and accurate description. And that's exactly the way I use the master volume control on mine too. I'm not looking for mondo overdrive...I'm looking for a great clean to semi-clean to semi-broken up tone that's right on the edge and I control alot of my sound with my picking attack and the volume control of my guitar. That's my tone. If I want overdrive or distortion I reach for my DS-1, TS-808, Spina modded TS-9, Fulltone '69 or Duncan Pickup Booster and goose the front end...although in all honesty I haven't even tried any of my overdrive pedals with my Matchless Chieftan cuz it gives me the tone's I love just straight up. Lew

 

[Scott_F]

Re: Matchless let down...

I've not played the PHoenix. I understand they took the preamp from one model and mated it to the power section of another model. Can't remember which. When it first came out, GP gave it rave reviews (no suprise there), but there were a lot of diehard matchless guys that didn't dig it.

Please don't judge that amp line by that one particular model (bahested)

Try a DC30 or a Chieftain or a bad-ass Clubman or a Lightning (Franklin). You will probably come away digging the hell out of one of them.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Matchless let down...

Like I said guts...there are no dealers around here so I have to wait on a used one to pop up...I am gonna keep looking but I think Im gonna go tomorrow and look at a few more amps.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Matchless let down...

Scott, you could be right.

http://matchlessamplifiers.com/match23_phoenix.html

I'm just guessing but it looks like they took the preamp from a DC-30 and put it on the output section of a Chieftan...or something like that. But it looks from the description on the Matchless site like it has the master volume of a DC-30. Again, I wonder if the Phoenix is a Mark Samson design or something come up with after he left the company. From the name (Phoenix) it might be something newer...like a Phoenix rising from the ashes of the old company or something.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Matchless let down...

does the DC-30 have an EF86 front end?

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Matchless let down...

does the DC-30 have an EF86 front end?

Yes. One of the channels does. It's my favorite channel on the C-30. Here's a link: http://matchlessamplifiers.com/match23_phoenix.html

Lew

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Matchless let down...

Matchless amps are really for players who want a Fender that has a better breakup. For that, they're great. A lot of players really don't like the preamp section in those amps. Matchless tone lies in the power section. That has to be cooking to really hear what people like about the amps. The preamp is not designed for gain at all, just pushed clean. I like to set my amp at that point, then use my Klon Centaur to raise the gain past that point. LP's take on that Robben Ford type sound, but strats and teles is what I usually plug into it.

 

[Curly]

Re: Matchless let down...

does the DC-30 have an EF86 front end?

look for an SC-30 like Lew's, a DC-30, or a 65 Amps London

 

[MDS]

Re: Matchless let down...

I was always under the impression that Matchless amps were more AC30 derived...are they more of a bassman type amp?

I haven't played them much, but a friend of mine is endorsed by them and I always play through one of them, or a Bad Cat(Samson as well), when I'm at his place. I always get killer clean tone out of it, but we mostly play jazz at his place...

Mike

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Matchless let down...

Matchless amps are really for players who want a Fender that has a better breakup. For that, they're great. A lot of players really don't like the preamp section in those amps. Matchless tone lies in the power section. That has to be cooking to really hear what people like about the amps. The preamp is not designed for gain at all, just pushed clean. I like to set my amp at that point, then use my Klon Centaur to raise the gain past that point. LP's take on that Robben Ford type sound, but strats and teles is what I usually plug into it.

I play mine fairly quietly all the time though and love the tone I get. I don't think I'm pushing the output tubes that hard at all most of the time. To me, the Chieftan is like a combination of my favorite amp types:

1. 50 watt Marshall
2. 40 watt Fender Blackface with Reverb
3. Fender tweed '59 Deluxe or '51 Super/Dual Professional

Actually, the Matchless C-30 is more like the Vox AC-30 than the Chieftan...the Chieftan's more like a combo of the Fenders and a Marshall...but with a cathode biased output section like my old tweed Deluxes and tweed Super...and with a 5AR4 rectifier tube instead of the solid state rectifier of a 50 watt Marshall or Blackface Fender.

Also, the first time I plugged into a Matchless it was into a DC-30 in a little music store and I was not smitten. It was to loud and toothy in that setting and I didn't get what they were all about. As it turns out, I kind of like the one 12 versions I have because I think they get a "better" tone at lower volumes than the two 12 versions.

But that's just me...and I do now have a two 12 Matchless cabinet to play through if I want two 12's onstage.

Actually, the set up I'm thinking of going with is putting my two Matchless combo amps (Chieftan and SC-30) on the left and running the Chieftan through both the speaker in it and the speaker in my SC-30. Then putting the Matchless two 12 speaker cab on the right and powering it with the SC-30.

Gonna have a go at that at our next rehearsal. We have a three piece band plus a lead singer so I'm the only guitar and we have no keyboard...I have alot of space to fill up.

For some gigs I'll be using my old Fenders instead though.

Lew

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Matchless let down...

I was always under the impression that Matchless amps were more AC30 derived...are they more of a bassman type amp?

I haven't played them much, but a friend of mine is endorsed by them and I always play through one of them, or a Bad Cat(Samson as well), when I'm at his place. I always get killer clean tone out of it, but we mostly play jazz at his place...

Mike

The C-30 is more Vox AC30 like than the Chieftan. But even the Vox AC-30 is actually very similar to a 5F6-A tweed Bassman...as is the Marshall JTM-45 and all single channel Marshalls. The thing that makes Matchless differant is the cathode bias of the power tubes. Let's you squeeze out and compress those notes with your touch a little easier than the fixed or grid bias like a Marshall or blackface Fender or tweed Bassman. Lew

 

[MDS]

Re: Matchless let down...

That makes sense, everything pretty much comes from the bassman anyways!

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Matchless let down...

look for an SC-30 like Lew's, a DC-30, or a 65 Amps London

All those do have an EF86 front end but they also have EL84 power tubes...I was hoping for something w/o EL84.

Im gonna go tomorrow and hit a few of the more hige end stores down town...maybe I'll get into trouble!

 

[Scott_F]

Re: Matchless let down...

Scott, you could be right.

http://matchlessamplifiers.com/match23_phoenix.html

I'm just guessing but it looks like they took the preamp from a DC-30 and put it on the output section of a Chieftan...or something like that. But it looks from the description on the Matchless site like it has the master volume of a DC-30. Again, I wonder if the Phoenix is a Mark Samson design or something come up with after he left the company. From the name (Phoenix) it might be something newer...like a Phoenix rising from the ashes of the old company or something.

It's definitely post-Sampson era.