mercury trannies
- Thread starter hellatone
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Re: mercury trannies
Good question. I have an older Splawn ProMod with MM trannies and it's my favorite amp by a mile. I wonder how much of the sound is coming from the transformers. Sorry I don't have any actual comparison data to contribute though. Hopefully somebody will chime in...
Good question. I have an older Splawn ProMod with MM trannies and it's my favorite amp by a mile. I wonder how much of the sound is coming from the transformers. Sorry I don't have any actual comparison data to contribute though. Hopefully somebody will chime in...
Pink Unicorn Horsey
Megä Pöny Rÿdr
Re: mercury trannies
I've got Mercury Magnetics trannies in my Celtic. According to Scott, they're the gold standard, but there are other brands that are less expensive but aren't significantly lower in quality.
Perhaps Scott will chime in to shed more light on this.
- Keith
I've got Mercury Magnetics trannies in my Celtic. According to Scott, they're the gold standard, but there are other brands that are less expensive but aren't significantly lower in quality.
Perhaps Scott will chime in to shed more light on this.
- Keith
Re: mercury trannies
Are they the best? That's subjective. Are they really well made? Yes. Do they enhance the resale value of the amp? Yes. Do they have a great warranty? Yes. Are they pricey as heck? Yes. Are they worth it? You be the judge.
Unfortunately, I have yet to build two identical amps with different brand of trannies. I only use US-made ones, from 3 suppliers and MM is one of them. Heyboer is another and the 3rd remains unnamed.
I'm actually thinking that all future Fender-esque builds will carry Mercury inside. I like all the stuff (well, 'cept for the price) that I listed above. They are widely considered the best.
My own personal feelings is that you'd have to have dog ears to figure it out. It's like SoZo mustard caps and Sprague electrolytics. Widely held as the best out there, so I use them. Are they really any better than Mallory 150's? I dunno. Sozo claims they have to break in for 100 hours or more. I've never had an amp that long that had them inside. I just burn them in for 3 days and off they go.
The thing I am going to start liking a lot about Mercury soon is that they offer price breaks that get better the more often you buy them. So, the more I order, the less they cost. Fair enough.
I'm also a subscriber to the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" theory. So, at this point, my Edana still uses the same Heyboer trannies that I've used from day one. I have no immediate plans to change. Although, someone will force my hand to use MM in there one day and I will. We'll see how they sound. I use the unnamed guys for the EL84 amps I make and the new 'wreck inspired thing that's coming round the corner. On the tweeds, i've been letting guys decide which transformers to use, but that may change as well. Soon.
Are they the best? That's subjective. Are they really well made? Yes. Do they enhance the resale value of the amp? Yes. Do they have a great warranty? Yes. Are they pricey as heck? Yes. Are they worth it? You be the judge.
Unfortunately, I have yet to build two identical amps with different brand of trannies. I only use US-made ones, from 3 suppliers and MM is one of them. Heyboer is another and the 3rd remains unnamed.
I'm actually thinking that all future Fender-esque builds will carry Mercury inside. I like all the stuff (well, 'cept for the price) that I listed above. They are widely considered the best.
My own personal feelings is that you'd have to have dog ears to figure it out. It's like SoZo mustard caps and Sprague electrolytics. Widely held as the best out there, so I use them. Are they really any better than Mallory 150's? I dunno. Sozo claims they have to break in for 100 hours or more. I've never had an amp that long that had them inside. I just burn them in for 3 days and off they go.
The thing I am going to start liking a lot about Mercury soon is that they offer price breaks that get better the more often you buy them. So, the more I order, the less they cost. Fair enough.
I'm also a subscriber to the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" theory. So, at this point, my Edana still uses the same Heyboer trannies that I've used from day one. I have no immediate plans to change. Although, someone will force my hand to use MM in there one day and I will. We'll see how they sound. I use the unnamed guys for the EL84 amps I make and the new 'wreck inspired thing that's coming round the corner. On the tweeds, i've been letting guys decide which transformers to use, but that may change as well. Soon.
Pink Unicorn Horsey
Megä Pöny Rÿdr
Re: mercury trannies
Actually, they are a Glam Band out of Perry, Montana. Their drummer is unreal.
Actually, they are a Glam Band out of Perry, Montana. Their drummer is unreal.
DWVINKY
New member
Re: mercury trannies
Another good choice is from www.allenamps.com They're actually made by Heyboer and really do improve the overall tone of the amp. I've got them in two of my Valve Junior heads and they sound great.
Another good choice is from www.allenamps.com They're actually made by Heyboer and really do improve the overall tone of the amp. I've got them in two of my Valve Junior heads and they sound great.
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: mercury trannies
Im sure I'll catch a lot of crap for thes but...
In my personal opinion transformers are the MOST overrated and over blown part of a tube guitar amp...Im not saying that good transformers are not important Im just saying that all the hype (and thats what it is, hype) behind transformers these days is completely been blown out of hand. Should you use good transformers if you can, sure. Are transformers the most important thing in a guitar amp...not even in the top 5 if you ask me.
Now, on to Mercury Magnetics...they use nylon bobbins in their transformers, I personally have never been a fan of that and much prefer a paper bobbin transformers (like all your favorite vintage amps use) and on top of that some of (maybe all...) the transformers Mecury Magnetics sells they don't even wind in house, they have them wound for them.
Mecury Magnetics is a big name with a lot of hype around them right now, why Im not sure to be honest...Im not saying at all they they are bad transformers Im simply stating my opinion that they are VERY overrated and VERY over hyped and VERY overpriced.
Im sure I'll catch a lot of crap for thes but...
In my personal opinion transformers are the MOST overrated and over blown part of a tube guitar amp...Im not saying that good transformers are not important Im just saying that all the hype (and thats what it is, hype) behind transformers these days is completely been blown out of hand. Should you use good transformers if you can, sure. Are transformers the most important thing in a guitar amp...not even in the top 5 if you ask me.
Now, on to Mercury Magnetics...they use nylon bobbins in their transformers, I personally have never been a fan of that and much prefer a paper bobbin transformers (like all your favorite vintage amps use) and on top of that some of (maybe all...) the transformers Mecury Magnetics sells they don't even wind in house, they have them wound for them.
Mecury Magnetics is a big name with a lot of hype around them right now, why Im not sure to be honest...Im not saying at all they they are bad transformers Im simply stating my opinion that they are VERY overrated and VERY over hyped and VERY overpriced.
T
TheArchitect
Guest
Re: mercury trannies
Whew! I thought this thread was about intergalactic cross dressing.
Whew! I thought this thread was about intergalactic cross dressing.
Re: mercury trannies
I'm of the opinion that the trannies are the secret sauce in most amps. Especially the output. Like I said, I've had excellent luck with any of the US-made trannies I've tried. But, I've heard a Lightning-type circuit with overseas trannies (one I didn't build, but with otherwise good components) and with the ones from the guy I use and I can hear the difference, especially when the amp is pushed.
There is a huge amount of hype in the gear industry. But, the perceived value should really help when it comes to resale. And, for most of us, resale is a reality at some point.
I'm of the opinion that the trannies are the secret sauce in most amps. Especially the output. Like I said, I've had excellent luck with any of the US-made trannies I've tried. But, I've heard a Lightning-type circuit with overseas trannies (one I didn't build, but with otherwise good components) and with the ones from the guy I use and I can hear the difference, especially when the amp is pushed.
There is a huge amount of hype in the gear industry. But, the perceived value should really help when it comes to resale. And, for most of us, resale is a reality at some point.
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: mercury trannies
Im not at all saying that transformers don't matter BUT I do belive that they don't matter as much as people say they do or should I say as much as people want to belive they do. Also, there are many other things that are more important in a good amp than the trannys. On the topic of MM Trannys in general I belive they are part good product and the rest is hype...I belive there are better trannys out there that cost less.
Im not at all saying that transformers don't matter BUT I do belive that they don't matter as much as people say they do or should I say as much as people want to belive they do. Also, there are many other things that are more important in a good amp than the trannys. On the topic of MM Trannys in general I belive they are part good product and the rest is hype...I belive there are better trannys out there that cost less.
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Gearjoneser
Gear Ho
Re: mercury trannies
Great iron. I think most of my amps have Mercury, and 1 has Drake.
My view of Mercury Magnetics?......I drive past their company every day. They're 2 blocks from me.
9167 Independence Ave. • Chatsworth, CA 91311
Great iron. I think most of my amps have Mercury, and 1 has Drake.
My view of Mercury Magnetics?......I drive past their company every day. They're 2 blocks from me.
9167 Independence Ave. • Chatsworth, CA 91311
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STRATDELUXER97
Stratoblaster Tone Meister
Re: mercury trannies
In my 73 NMV Marshall I Put one of Trace's(Voodoo Amps) MM output transformers in this amp and his choke...I'm sitting here trying to explain how it made it much better,but I'm currently at a loss on how to explain it? I'll ponder it,but yes the OT made a tonal difference,plus the amp is stronger,louder..Not a good thing with an old Marshall really! :smack:
I guess my amp sounds more "complex" but don't ask me to explain that! :laugh2: I totally redid this amp to PTP and so I shouldn't really think that it was just the MM OT and the choke that made all the difference,but I will say that the overall combination(sozo caps etc) made this into a really great amp!
Here's my ole 50 watt Marshall.Choke to the left and Voodoo Amp OT center.
In my 73 NMV Marshall I Put one of Trace's(Voodoo Amps) MM output transformers in this amp and his choke...I'm sitting here trying to explain how it made it much better,but I'm currently at a loss on how to explain it? I'll ponder it,but yes the OT made a tonal difference,plus the amp is stronger,louder..Not a good thing with an old Marshall really! :smack:
I guess my amp sounds more "complex" but don't ask me to explain that! :laugh2: I totally redid this amp to PTP and so I shouldn't really think that it was just the MM OT and the choke that made all the difference,but I will say that the overall combination(sozo caps etc) made this into a really great amp!
Here's my ole 50 watt Marshall.Choke to the left and Voodoo Amp OT center.
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Artie
Peaveyologist
Re: mercury trannies
Its easy. Think of it like this: you understand the difference between pickups, right? A guitar pickup is functionly identical to the secondary of a transformer. The secondary of a transformer has a signal impressed upon it by another coil in close proximity. The electro-magnetic field builds up and collapses around the secondary. On a guitar pickup, that field is caused by a vibrating string - put the pickup doesn't know that. It can live its whole life thinking its half of a transformer.
If you know why pickups sound different, you know why transformers sound different.
Its easy.
Think of it like this: you understand the difference between pickups, right? A guitar pickup is functionly identical to the secondary of a transformer. The secondary of a transformer has a signal impressed upon it by another coil in close proximity. The electro-magnetic field builds up and collapses around the secondary. On a guitar pickup, that field is caused by a vibrating string - put the pickup doesn't know that. It can live its whole life thinking its half of a transformer.If you know why pickups sound different, you know why transformers sound different.
STRATDELUXER97
Stratoblaster Tone Meister
Re: mercury trannies
Thanks Artie.....Yes I knew that,but try putting the technical terminology into an explanation of how that changes or influences the tone of the amp...That's the hard part sometimes....
Again my Marshall sounds more open and complex,but others will want to know what these terms mean? :13:
Its easy.
If you know why pickups sound different, you know why transformers sound different.
Thanks Artie.....Yes I knew that,but try putting the technical terminology into an explanation of how that changes or influences the tone of the amp...That's the hard part sometimes....
Again my Marshall sounds more open and complex,but others will want to know what these terms mean? :13:
STRATDELUXER97
Stratoblaster Tone Meister
Re: mercury trannies
Something I'm "normally" pretty good at,but today I Must be tired and in "brain fart mode"? :laugh2:
BFMS....Brain Fart Mode Syndrome! :laugh2:
Yes . . . that is the hard part.
Something I'm "normally" pretty good at,but today I Must be tired and in "brain fart mode"? :laugh2:
BFMS....Brain Fart Mode Syndrome! :laugh2:
Fresh_Start
New member
Re: mercury trannies
I understand Scott's opinion completely and probably would use MM trannies if I were selling amps too. I know it would help me buy a particular boutique amp because of the re-sale value.
Personally and based on limited direct experience, I think transformers are a lot like capacitors. There's a big improvement in tone going from ceramic crap to a polyester film cap, but I can't hear much (if any) difference between the "good" brands even though there are big price differences (like Hovland vs. Orange Drops).
I plan on buying at least the OT for my next project from Allen Amps. May even replace the cheap-o OT in my Princeton build with one just to hear the tone.
To me it makes sense that the output transformer has more affect on tone than the power transformer. Just look at where each one sits in the circuit!
Mecury Magnetics has great marketing. But I called them about their 5F2-A "ToneClone" PT. It exactly matches the 350-0-350 volts from a vintage Fender PT plugged into a modern wall socket. But wait - my 350-0-350 PT produced B+ voltages W-A-Y above vintage spec plugged into my wall socket (125 +/- instead of 110v back in the 50's). Had to add a Zener diode to pull the voltage down by 50v. Now it comes close to vintage spec for voltages and, more importantly, sounds better to my ears. (Note: I am sure that Celtic amps sound just as great as they can - Scott makes a fantastic amp.)
Short story - do you want a new PT that will sound like the old amp back then, or like an old amp would sound at today's higher wall voltages?
more than 2 cents in, maybe 1/2 cent out?
Chip
I understand Scott's opinion completely and probably would use MM trannies if I were selling amps too. I know it would help me buy a particular boutique amp because of the re-sale value.
Personally and based on limited direct experience, I think transformers are a lot like capacitors. There's a big improvement in tone going from ceramic crap to a polyester film cap, but I can't hear much (if any) difference between the "good" brands even though there are big price differences (like Hovland vs. Orange Drops).
I plan on buying at least the OT for my next project from Allen Amps. May even replace the cheap-o OT in my Princeton build with one just to hear the tone.
To me it makes sense that the output transformer has more affect on tone than the power transformer. Just look at where each one sits in the circuit!
Mecury Magnetics has great marketing. But I called them about their 5F2-A "ToneClone" PT. It exactly matches the 350-0-350 volts from a vintage Fender PT plugged into a modern wall socket. But wait - my 350-0-350 PT produced B+ voltages W-A-Y above vintage spec plugged into my wall socket (125 +/- instead of 110v back in the 50's). Had to add a Zener diode to pull the voltage down by 50v. Now it comes close to vintage spec for voltages and, more importantly, sounds better to my ears. (Note: I am sure that Celtic amps sound just as great as they can - Scott makes a fantastic amp.)
Short story - do you want a new PT that will sound like the old amp back then, or like an old amp would sound at today's higher wall voltages?
more than 2 cents in, maybe 1/2 cent out?
Chip
Re: mercury trannies
It's all relative when it comes to your wallet. For a guy that wants to spend no more than 400 bucks on a kit amp, those weber chinese trannies fit the bill nicely.
For the guy that is stepping up and wants the best, he goes with the best. It's all about your wallet.
I'm all about trying to give folks what they want.
It's all relative when it comes to your wallet. For a guy that wants to spend no more than 400 bucks on a kit amp, those weber chinese trannies fit the bill nicely.
For the guy that is stepping up and wants the best, he goes with the best. It's all about your wallet.
I'm all about trying to give folks what they want.
