Mesa Boogie 2x12 Cab Frustrations - HELP!

O

OlinMusic

New member
I have played a 2x12 recto cab for 2 years now. I came to the realization that THIS CAB might be the cause of some tonal frustrations.

I put it up against (A/B's) a standard sized Bogner 2x12 open back, same speakers, v30s. The Bogner literally made my amps all have a little of the character my Shiva has thru my Shiva 2x12. I was shocked. The tone was more balanced, the ugly honk the midrange was now tamed, the highs were more present and smoother. Everything felt more open, and less muddy / compressed.

Can this be?

Not that I didn't have other good reasons to move on to the current rigs I have but... this cab might have cured some of my tonal frustrations with my Rivera Knucklehead and Mesa Heartbreaker.

I never thought I would get this much of a different feel from a cab.

I have been to GC many times and admired the tone I got specifically thru the Soldano and VHT (with p50s) cabs. The Diezels sounded good thru Diezel cabs.

I want to sell my recto and thiele cabs and move a new route.

So can we discuss some 2x12's and 4x12's here? any that might continue my tonal happiness?
 
Re: Mesa Boogie 2x12 Cab Frustrations - HELP!

If you like the Bogner, why not just get it? ;)
 
Re: Mesa Boogie 2x12 Cab Frustrations - HELP!

it's costly, I already have cabs - and I am having trouble believing that 2 cabs can sound so radically different with the same speakers.

I have had this same feeling with Soldano cabs and VHT cabs, and I always told myself I was tripping, that it had to be the room or excitement over a new sound that was clouding me. This time it is for sure.

I was also intrugued that Warren Haynes would use ENGL or Soldano cabs - I wondered why he would have Soldano's, Marshalls, and then suddenly an ENGL cab?

I am wondering about different cabs now. Also, do Bogner 4x12's have this same "magic"?
 
Re: Mesa Boogie 2x12 Cab Frustrations - HELP!

Bogner 4x12's have an even better magic - think of the most mojo, tonefull, ballsy, powerful Bogner 2x12 you've ever heard.

That said - the cabinets construction has a HUGE effect on the sound... sometimes, even moreso than speakers.
 
Re: Mesa Boogie 2x12 Cab Frustrations - HELP!

it is just open back v. closed back is the main point you are bringing up imo?
 
Re: Mesa Boogie 2x12 Cab Frustrations - HELP!

OlinMusic said:
So can we discuss some 2x12's and 4x12's here? any that might continue my tonal happiness?
Click to expand...
We could, but my advice would be to discuss less and play more.

Seriously, play every piece of gear you can get your hands on. Don't buy it without trying it with your amp and, preferably, your guitar. Even sound clips don't tell you how the amp/cab will react to your touch and style. The only way you'll really find what works best for you is for you to try as much as possible. Just like you shouldn't buy based on someone else's opinion, you souldn't rule out a piece of gear because of a negative opinion.
 
Re: Mesa Boogie 2x12 Cab Frustrations - HELP!

aleclee said:
We could, but my advice would be to discuss less and play more.

Seriously, play every piece of gear you can get your hands on. Don't buy it without trying it with your amp and, preferably, your guitar. Even sound clips don't tell you how the amp/cab will react to your touch and style. The only way you'll really find what works best for you is for you to try as much as possible. Just like you shouldn't buy based on someone else's opinion, you souldn't rule out a piece of gear because of a negative opinion.
Click to expand...

+1 to that.

I'll also add that it's worth bringing your Mesa cab to GC and have them hook up your guitar to an A/B switch to compare your cab with one or more of the cabs you're thinking of buying. Depending on your financial felxibility, you also may want to consider buying a cab and trying it at home. If it's new, i think you've got thirty days to try it out before returning it.

If GC wants your business -- and they do -- they'll take the time to help you sort this stuff out. Let them know you're serious about buying, which will be obvious when you tell them you want to A/B new cabs with your own. Just don't f- them over and purchase online once you've made a decision; if they help you out, return the favor -- but still don't pay sticker price!

Guess I'm in an advice-giving mood this morning. :)

- Keith
 
Re: Mesa Boogie 2x12 Cab Frustrations - HELP!

The Bogner cabs are almost half the Bogner sound. They really have a woody and bouncy character that sounds the same way a Martin acoustic sounds, compared to an Ovation.....just alive and resonant. I've run a lot of other British toned amps through my Bogner cabs, and it instantly gives me that same woody knock that they have with a Bogner head plugged into it.

Speaking of jonesing....There's a Bogner 4-12 Greenback cab in recycler right now for a giveaway price of $625. I'm insane for thinking about it, since I have a 4-12 and 2-12 vin 30 cab already. I should just slap myself in the face right now for pondering it! hahaha
 
Re: Mesa Boogie 2x12 Cab Frustrations - HELP!

Do you guys prefer the open backed or closed back Bogners?
 
Re: Mesa Boogie 2x12 Cab Frustrations - HELP!

msawitzke said:
Do you guys prefer the open backed or closed back Bogners?
Click to expand...

For the 4-12, I'd definitely opt for closed back. I'd like to try a 2-12 or 1-12 with an open back, or one with a removeable panel. I think it would soften the low end tightness, but would spread the sound out a lot better. I use my amp more like a vintage amp fan, moreso than for all out metal tone, so I could probably dig having an open back 2-12. However, I also play heavy stuff too, which is why I like having all the versatility. I'm totally satisfied with 4 Vin 30's, but I still have this nagging suspicion that I would like a criss cross of vin 30/H30 even more. I just don't like obsessing about that stuff too much.....it ends up costing me money for needless upgrades.
 
Re: Mesa Boogie 2x12 Cab Frustrations - HELP!

small closed back cabs sound very percusive on chuga-chuga bar chords but thats what they do best. oversize cabs add depth to the tone and make it sound bigger. open back add even more depth but you also lose tightness of chords so you have to turn it up very loud to drive the speaker hard to still get that percusive kick on the chords. its a tone toss up realy. what phase of playing are you at. are you a chuga-chuga demon or are you expanding into more depth as a player and want a bigger tone. I like over size cabs cuz you seem to get most of both. oversize 2/12 cabs with vin 30's are what I ended up with. great for rock, blues, Jazz and you can put the cabs togather to still get a big (almost) 4/12 sound. keep playing differant cabs your on the right track
:beerchug:
 
Re: Mesa Boogie 2x12 Cab Frustrations - HELP!

Phil - I am after what you are after. That 3d magic that kinda does it all at my beck and call with just a twist of a knob.
 
Re: Mesa Boogie 2x12 Cab Frustrations - HELP!

Gearjoneser said:
For the 4-12, I'd definitely opt for closed back. I'd like to try a 2-12 or 1-12 with an open back, or one with a removeable panel. I think it would soften the low end tightness, but would spread the sound out a lot better. I use my amp more like a vintage amp fan, moreso than for all out metal tone, so I could probably dig having an open back 2-12. However, I also play heavy stuff too, which is why I like having all the versatility. I'm totally satisfied with 4 Vin 30's, but I still have this nagging suspicion that I would like a criss cross of vin 30/H30 even more. I just don't like obsessing about that stuff too much.....it ends up costing me money for needless upgrades.
Click to expand...

You should try (2) Celestion Classic Lead 80s in there with those Vintage 30s in a criss cross pattern. Try it and get back to me, I'm sure you'll love it (atleast I know I do) ;)

Sometimes you just have to sell the rest and get the best if you're a gear hound. I would agree that half the magic of Bogner setups are having the matching cabinet. A 4x12'' was the best investment I've ever made, the 2x12'' cabinets I've tried don't come close to the sound dispersion, big woody sound, punchy character and ballsy lowend chunk. There was a reason why I sold my Shiva 2x12'', it just didn't rock as much.

As a studio musician Olin, you're obviously looking for the best tone you can and I think you'll find that shelling out the extra cash for a Bogner cabinet will be well worth it. After all, if you've shelled out enough money for a Shiva or XTC, you want to make sure that sound is projecting through the best quality cabinet you can get.
 
Re: Mesa Boogie 2x12 Cab Frustrations - HELP!

woah, let me correct - I am not a studio musician so much as a freelancer looking for a good musical home, and BOUND to find one. That aside, I thank you for the kind advice. You have me intrigued with the Lead 80s

I already listed my Mesa cabs and have some potential buyers.
 
Re: Mesa Boogie 2x12 Cab Frustrations - HELP!

OlinMusic said:
Phil - I am after what you are after. That 3d magic that kinda does it all at my beck and call with just a twist of a knob.
Click to expand...

what helps oversize cabs chuga-chuga even faster is the vintage switch. Some have a vintage or bright switch on the back. The vintage switch on mine makes them break up faster at lower volumns thus they can chuga-chuga very well or I can switch to bright and they get head room and more ambiance and the gain seems to be more pronounced. I would say this whole speaker set up adds almost half the tone. I dont have all the answers but I love the versitility of my set up. 2-2/12 vin 30 large cabs with a bright and vintage switch that I can seperate for even more ambiance, run them in stereo, run them in stereo with a slight delay between them for huge fat tone, or put them togather for an almost 4/12 sound. I just wanted versitility instead of being confined. Side note-I also found out (happily)it was easier to haul and haul in my car. remember, most of those earlier great sounding VanHalen records were recorded on Eddies 2/12 combo marshal. Sometimes its cool just to hook up a head with just 1-2/12 cab for some great tone all its own. also-small club?-just take one 2/12 cab, your gunna mike it anyway
:beerchug:
 
Re: Mesa Boogie 2x12 Cab Frustrations - HELP!

i could not believe how amazing joneser's rig sounded at SDUGD ... playing scott's R8 (pair of ants) thru it was just a tonal bliss ... i had never played either an R8 or a bogner and it was such a revelation abotu what real tone is ... i gotta believe that you'll dig the bogner cab ... and in fact, now that you're infected with the experience in your ears, you really won't be happy til you own it or something that knocks your socks off even more ... alec has it right ... play a ton of gear -

t4d
 
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