Mesa Cabs...

some_dude

some_dude

Raging BB Gunologist
I'm going to get a new Mesa cab. I'm having a hard time making up my mind which one I want.

I play hard rock into sludgy metal. Occasional thrash, but it's not my mainstay.

SG/Les Paul -> Mark V -> Cab

Whichever one I get it'll be the slant version. The main reason I'm looking to get another cab is because I've downsized my rig and I'm having a hard time hearing a single straight baffled 4x12, hence the slant.

I'm not interested in any other cab companies... part of the reason for wanting a Mesa is because I prefer the sound of their V30s to generic V30s. I also can't get some of the other gear forum favourites without paying through the nose for shipping/customs.

Anyway...

- Recto Standard 4x12 (the oversized one)
- Recto Traditional 4x12 (the one they call the Stiletto cab, even though it's probably not the best cab to pair with a Stiletto)
- Roadking 4x12 (the one that's half closed back/V30s, half open back/MC-90s)

I've owned the oversized one before but I've never heard the other two in person. I loved the way the oversized one sounded but I didn't like the way the bottom end sags and lags behind. I'm thinking I might like the Traditional cab better for the tighter tracking, but I'm afraid it might be brighter and produce a harsher sounding midrange like some of the other smaller V30 loaded cabs.

Feel free to comment.
 
Re: Mesa Cabs...

I briefly owned a MESA Engineering Recto 1x12 and a Marshall 1912 with a MESA-spec 300w 12" EV driver in quick succession. The cabinet construction definitely made a difference. The Recto cab had a pronounced midscoop that would not go away. The Marshall with the identical driver sounded, well, more "Marshall-y".

Eventually, I fitted a proper NOS Marshall/Celestion G12 Gold loudspeaker in the 1912. The EV serves as a spare for my Compact Thiele 1x12 cabs.

IMO, the only real test is to take your guitar and head to a Boogie dealer. Tell 'em that you are going to buy something but that you just need to decide which exact model. Lugging the guitar and head ought to suggest to them that you are serious. Waving greenbacks will remove all doubt.
 
Re: Mesa Cabs...

Funkfingers said:
IMO, the only real test is to take your guitar and head to a Boogie dealer. Tell 'em that you are going to buy something but that you just need to decide which exact model. Lugging the guitar and head ought to suggest to them that you are serious. Waving greenbacks will remove all doubt.
Click to expand...

I agree, but they never stock the Recto Traditional 4x12s...
 
Re: Mesa Cabs...

some_dude said:
I don't suppose you have the part number of the one's Avatar is selling?
Click to expand...

Avatar lists and sells 3 different V30 speakers on their site.

There is the Celestion V30, which is the same as a standard V30 you'd buy at GC or get in most amps that use V30's stock.

There is the Hellatone 60 which is the same plain old V30 from above but slightly broken in by Avatar and relabeled Hellatone.

Then there is the Hellatone 60L which is the special V30 like the one Mesa uses but also broken in slightly and relabeled Hellatone.

Check their site, www.avatarspeakers.com and see what they say and you can also email then, Dave has been very helpful to me in the past.
 
Re: Mesa Cabs...

I like the sound of the recto cab. but if your just concerned about hearing it better, I say go open back, cause on stage its easier to hear cause the sound is not directional at all.
 
Re: Mesa Cabs...

They also m ake a Stiletto 4X12, they are my fav of the Mesa cabs. They are smaller than the Rectifier cabs and are very tight sounding. I suggest trying one of them if you are able to do so.
 
Re: Mesa Cabs...

Found the quote below on a recording site. Kind of re-framed how I view these cabs. I checked around some more and found it was a recurring theme on recording forums.

For those who're new to Mesa;

The Recto Standard is the oversized Recto cabs
The Recto Traditional are now called the 'Stiletto' cabs.

I wanted to share some recent experiences with these two cabs with you.

Most of my prior guitar recording experiences focus around recording the Mesa Traditional cab. This one has a very interesting and unique midrange focus not really found in any other cabinet. It can do a certain sound well, but I always found it lacking in some regards as the kind of tone I tend to be after is focused differently.

Well, lo and behold the other day I got a chance (along with some friends) to try out the Recto Standard alongside the Traditional with these amp heads:

EVH 5150 III
Mesa Boogie Mark IV
ENGL Invader 100W

There were 3 guitarists there, myself included. We all thought the Recto Standard consistently performed better with all 3 amps, and with both our guitars (Jackson Rhoads, Alder body, Duncans etc. & Schecter Hellraiser C7, Mahogany, EMG 707s).

The difference, in the best terms I can describe, is hearing your tone through a boombox/radio compared to a full-range speaker system. The Recto Standard has a strong mid-mid and upper-mid focus that gives you a rather full tone. My main complaint about it is the loose low-end, but I'm sure with the right tools that could be tweaked (we had no tubescreamers on hand, sadly).

The traditional cab, whilst having its own unique sound, has a fairly brittle, buzzy upper-mid & very full low-mid. That's what distinguishes the characteristic sound to me... the low-mids sound a certain way, and as soon as you get a 5150 or Recto through it boosted by a TS, you start to hear where The Sneap is coming from (edit: Sneap is a member of the UltimateMetal forum).

I personally like a stronger tone, and one more channeled into the mid rather than low-mid. Nordstrom's tones on Nightrage's 'Sweet Vengeance' and In Flames' 'Clayman' have been amongst my very favourite for years. The Recto Traditional cab focuses the tone more into that range. Having said that, I know Nordstrom likes the ENGL V30 cab, unfortunately for us however, none were on hand to compare with.

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/...onal-vs-standard-recto-cab-some-thoughts.html
Click to expand...

Anyway, I've been doing something thinking and some further reading on the subject and this is what I've pieced together...

For starters, the description of the Recto Traditional is exactly what I hear in my Orange 4x12, which makes sense in a way because they're somewhat similar.

The gist of what I hear with my Orange 4x12 is that the 'attack' comes out high in the upper midrange, which tends to be where V30s sound their harshest. Then, the bassy follow through (the "G" in a 'chugging' palm muted riff) comes out in the low midrange, which is where guitar tends to sound muddy and indistinct. It's something that I never totally realized until I started A/Bing with a Recto 2x12. After a couple of weeks of using the Recto 2x12 I plugged my Orange 4x12 in and I couldn't figure out why the bass on my Orange 4x12 was so overbearing, why the mids sounded absent and why the cab sounded like mud. I was going to tear it apart this weekend and test all the wiring to see if I didn't mess something up last time I swapped speakers in that cab, however the quote above perfectly explained what I'm hearing. For me this was a bit of a mind-**** since I'd always been of the opinion that the Recto cab is loose and boomy, yet here one was being tight and clear.

My assumption is that the detuning of the Recto standard cab shifts both the attack emphasis and the bass emphasis down in frequency. So, instead of having your attack emphasized in the harsh part of the V30s response it sits a little lower in frequency where the V30 sounds smoother. Further, the bass response is shifted from the low mids to the bass frequencies. This tightens and adds clarity to guitar, but gives that slow, saggy response Recto cabs are known for whist also interfering with the bassist.

The trick is that once a microphone is on the speaker that extra bass response can be EQ'd out, so what you end up with is an overall increase to the midrange with a reduced bottom end response that makes for more smoother, fuller middle tones and improved tightness/clarity on the bottom end than the smaller cab provides.
 
Re: Mesa Cabs...

The thing with buying a cab with new V30's is that it takes such a long time to work them in that buying new ones for the second time is like starting over again.
They sound better after a lot of miles have been put on them.

Mesa Standard cabs do not have a loose low end either. They are in no way any more loose than any other oversize cab like the MF280, Krank Rev, Mills AB, Engl XL, Randall XXL, etc.
 
Re: Mesa Cabs...

So many ways to go here. Sounds like the Stiletto cab would be a good match, but...the Road King cab does offer some advantages in versatility.

But, if you want to "think outside the box", er...cabinet, there are some other cabs to consider. Have you thought about a pair of 212 cabs? A pair of Horizontal Recto 212 V30 cabs make for a compact half stack. I use a HR 212 cab under my Maverick 212 combo, and it adds a lot of low-end punch to an amp that is normally a little bass-shy. And it's portable! Lots easier to deal with a pair of 212s than trying to fit a 412 into the back of your Civic.

Or, if you really need the option of the slant cab, consider a pair of Vertical Recto 212s. Same advantages, slightly differerent tone, and again...V30s.

I personally think the old Mesa Half-Back 412s and 212s are some of the best sounding cabs ever made. Reportedly, Duane Allman used to cut holes in the back of his Marshall top cabs, to give him the punch and crunch of the 412, but the airy openess of a combo amp as well. The 212 has a closed-back, Theile-ported bottom; while the top 112 sits in the slanted top with an open back. The 212s are slightly large. The 412s on the other hand are relatively small, and very compact. Both the square bottom cabs and the top cabs have slanted top baffles. (Bottom cabs are very rare.)

I have a pair of the 412s. I also have a 212 Half-Back cab, loaded with a Celestion/Black Shadow C-90 in the top, and the Eminence-built MS-12 Black Shadow in the ported bottom. (All Mesa Speakers, except the V-30s are labelled Black Shadows.) The MS-12 sounds a lot like a JBL, to my ear. Great cab for a small club.

I have two of the 412 Half-Back top cabs, but they're slightly different. I bought the first one back in the mid-'90s, and it's loaded with C90's in the top and EVMs in the bottom. Amazing speaker, the best 412 I've ever used. The second cab is loaded with four EVMs, weighing in at about 800 lbs., LOL! I bought this one recently, so I don't have much experience with it--but again, an incredible speaker--amazing detail. The Half-Back cabs came in a variety of speaker configurations, but I'd say the C90/EVM combination was the most popular.

The Road Kind cab uses the half-closed, half-open concept in a side-by-side configuration. Teriffic for the Road King amps, where you can assign each channel to one of two different cabs.

Sometimes having the combination of the closed back and the open back is really handy. I'm a big fan of this design, but...I'll admit it might not be for everybody. If you want to go the 2-212 route, I think you can get the HR 212 with a half-back or 3/4-back as an option. If you have the opportunity, you should play your amp through several cabs to hear what you like best.

I'd be really interested in hearing which of their cabs Mesa recommends with the Mark V head; but I'd guess they would probably recommend the Stiletto cab.

Good Luck!

Bill
 
Re: Mesa Cabs...

Van Noord said:
The thing with buying a cab with new V30's is that it takes such a long time to work them in that buying new ones for the second time is like starting over again.
They sound better after a lot of miles have been put on them.
Click to expand...

I agree. That's one of the reasons I want to stick with a Mesa cab. The V30s in my 2 month old Recto 2x12 sound better than the 5 year old V30s in my Orange cab.

Mesa Standard cabs do not have a loose low end either.
Click to expand...

I agree that it's not loose... I think it's more that it takes them slightly longer to finish saying what they have to say. In hindsight I never had any issues with how tight my old Recto Std tracked.... I guess years of reading Mesa hate has clouded my thoughts, even though I'm not a Mesa hater myself.
 
Re: Mesa Cabs...

Boogie Bill said:
Have you thought about a pair of 212 cabs?
Click to expand...

Yes, but I'm not really interested in the idea. I'd rather carry one piece of gear than two.

A pair of Horizontal Recto 212 V30 cabs make for a compact half stack. I use a HR 212 cab under my Maverick 212 combo, and it adds a lot of low-end punch to an amp that is normally a little bass-shy. And it's portable! Lots easier to deal with a pair of 212s than trying to fit a 412 into the back of your Civic.

I drive a Tacoma, so size is a moot point.

Or, if you really need the option of the slant cab, consider a pair of Vertical Recto 212s. Same advantages, slightly differerent tone, and again...V30s.

Looked at them, but they're nearly as large as a 4x12... so much so that I might as well use a 4x12.

I personally think the old Mesa Half-Back 412s and 212s are some of the best sounding cabs ever made.

I've always wanted one. My buddy had one and it was a great sounding cab. If one ever comes up locally I'd grab it, but I live in a place where Peavey, Marshall and Fender are considered 'high end'.

I'd be really interested in hearing which of their cabs Mesa recommends with the Mark V head; but I'd guess they would probably recommend the Stiletto cab.

I believe the widebody cab lines are the one's specific to Marks.

But yeah... Stiletto or Recto (cab)... I don't know which one they'd say.
 
Re: Mesa Cabs...

another thing to think about is weight/bulk

a 212 orange cab weighs 75 pounds. if you want to jam and gig alot, its better to go lightweight.
 
Re: Mesa Cabs...

I already own a 2x12 and a couple of 1x12s.

Beyond that, I have a physical job, so moving 4x12s isn't that big a deal.
 
Re: Mesa Cabs...

thats cool man! I used to load and unload my 80 pound 410 for every practice till I got sick of that, it just collects dust until gig day now. Sounds like you have a heavy metal guitar disneyland at your place and wont be bringing a gun to a knife fight with all the variety there :beerchug:
 
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