Mic overload to the board--what am I doing wrong?

[75lespaul]

I have two GT Brick preamps that I just got. When I mic the amp I'm using an SM57 with one brick and that's fine; However, when I use any of my condensor mics with the other it's overloading the input on my Tascam US-428 interface and/or the inputs on my recording software, Sonar 5. The recording sounds good, but first with the mic at FIFTEEN FEET AWAY and the input knobs on both the interface and Brick all the way down, it's overloading. With the mic that far away, I'm sure I'm not getting the best sound plus what's with the overload problem? Here's my setup

Either Vox Valvetronix AD60VTX set on 1 watt or Univox U45-B (10 watts, no master) pegged. Mics are either MXL V69ME, V63 or AKG C3000B. Then into the Brick, the Tascam and Sonar 5.

If I can't record a 1 watt amp, how am I ever going to record my 50 watt amps? Will I have to put the mic three houses down, LOL?

"No Tony, don't get out of the shower--I'm only micing my amp. Just don't close the windows or run the blender, okay?"

 

[vinterland]

Re: Mic overload to the board--what am I doing wrong?

Hmm thats weird. It definately shouldn't be clipping at one watt with no pre gain.

 

[75lespaul]

Re: Mic overload to the board--what am I doing wrong?

bumpashimmalingadingdong

 

[ErikH]

Re: Mic overload to the board--what am I doing wrong?

First, using condensor mics to mic up guitar amps/cabs is a bad idea. They are very sensative and very easy to overload, as you can tell. What you need to do is use a dynamic mic for the amp/cab. That'll give you more flexibility. Use condensors for room micing or for an acoustic a couple feet away. They're also good for drum cymbals when on boom arms high up above them.

You may have to tweak the mic sensitivity levels on the console. Where is the "trim" setting at? Looking at a pic of it from Tascam's site, I see it goes from Line to Mic. You may not need the pre-amp with it. Connect it directly to the console and see if it still overloads.

 

[vinterland]

Re: Mic overload to the board--what am I doing wrong?

People use condensors to record guitars all the time. Dynamic close, condensor a couple feet away is a very common setup. A one watt amp shouldn't bother it considering I've miced up 50-100 watt amps with condensers and they worked like a charm.

 

[TheArchitect]

Re: Mic overload to the board--what am I doing wrong?

First, its a somewhat commom problem with the Brick feeding soundcards directly. 2nd) Are you using the pad on the condensor? You really should be if you are using it on a loud amp. Condensors generally are much more sensitive than dynamics. 3rd) Have you turned down the input gain on the sound card? Most sound cards will let you adjust the input gain. 4th) Are you certain its the sound card clipping and not the inputs to Sonar? You can be clipping the input of the app as well as the input of the card.

 

[75lespaul]

Re: Mic overload to the board--what am I doing wrong?

First, its a somewhat commom problem with the Brick feeding soundcards directly. 2nd) Are you using the pad on the condensor? You really should be if you are using it on a loud amp. Condensors generally are much more sensitive than dynamics. 3rd) Have you turned down the input gain on the sound card? Most sound cards will let you adjust the input gain. 4th) Are you certain its the sound card clipping and not the inputs to Sonar? You can be clipping the input of the app as well as the input of the card.

The only mic I have with the pad is the C3000B which has the -10db rolloff,which hardly changed a thing. On the Tascam hardware itself, I have the input knob all the way down. Same with the Brick. I've been searching the Sonar manual for any way to lower input, but I can't find anything. I think it works like a tape machine where the mixer controls the input.

If there's something I need to adjust in the computer itself, I can't find it.

Edit: When I hook up the computer to record again later, I'll check the "Sounds & Audio Devices" section in Control Panel, and see if that will help anything.

 

[vinterland]

Re: Mic overload to the board--what am I doing wrong?

Sonar doesn't control input level. You said it correctly its basically a tape machine.

 

[TheArchitect]

Re: Mic overload to the board--what am I doing wrong?

If thats the case it seems your Tascam inputs are probably set to mic level input, essentially acting as a second pre in the chain. You should be able to set that to a line level which appropriate for feeding a mic pre into it.

 

[75lespaul]

Re: Mic overload to the board--what am I doing wrong?

Yup, that's exactly what it sounds like. I didn't get a chance to look at it last night, but I'll check it out later. Hope that's all it is and that I can beat myself in the head with a shoe for being a numbskull and not thinking of that myself, LOL

Thanks guys. :fingersx:

 

[ErikH]

Re: Mic overload to the board--what am I doing wrong?

People use condensors to record guitars all the time. Dynamic close, condensor a couple feet away is a very common setup. A one watt amp shouldn't bother it considering I've miced up 50-100 watt amps with condensers and they worked like a charm.

I have never seen anyone use a condensor to record electric guitars. Acoustic yes, but not electric. If they used two mics, they were both dynamics. The one placed further away, if being used, would be a uni-directional dynamic so that nothing else around it would bleed too much. Condensors can pick up mating mice in the opposite corner if you're not careful with the level.

This doesn't mean it can't be done, just not something I would do or was taught in technical school (there were audio classes).

 

[vinterland]

Re: Mic overload to the board--what am I doing wrong?

I have never seen anyone use a condensor to record electric guitars. Acoustic yes, but not electric. If they used two mics, they were both dynamics. The one placed further away, if being used, would be a uni-directional dynamic so that nothing else around it would bleed too much. Condensors can pick up mating mice in the opposite corner if you're not careful with the level.

This doesn't mean it can't be done, just not something I would do or was taught in technical school (there were audio classes).

Seriously man the dynamic and condensor technique is used all the time to record guitars. A setup I used while getting my undergrad degree was an MD-421 close miced and a Neumann TLM 103 about 3 feet away. You don't need much gain on the condensor so it works fine and isn't overly hot.

 

[ErikH]

Re: Mic overload to the board--what am I doing wrong?

Seriously man the dynamic and condensor technique is used all the time to record guitars. A setup I used while getting my undergrad degree was an MD-421 close miced and a Neumann TLM 103 about 3 feet away. You don't need much gain on the condensor so it works fine and isn't overly hot.

I believe you. It's just not something I've seen or was ever taught. Of course, that was over 10 years ago that I was in school for recording, really the who music business. Learned a lot of good stuff, just never put it to seriously good use. I know things have changed a lot since then.

Since we're on the subject, which inexpensive condensor would you recommend for basic recording? I'm not looking to do professional quality stuff, just something to help record some jamming in the garage. Right now I have a dynamic in the middle of the room, because we play across from each other, in the round sorta. I need something that'll pick up a little better. I've tried putting another condensor on one side of the room and it helped a little but added more noise too. A condensor would really be the ticket to get everything just right. Also, it would be nice if it had battery phantom power ability. I don't have a phantom supply.

 

[vinterland]

Re: Mic overload to the board--what am I doing wrong?

I believe you. It's just not something I've seen or was ever taught. Of course, that was over 10 years ago that I was in school for recording, really the who music business. Learned a lot of good stuff, just never put it to seriously good use. I know things have changed a lot since then.

Since we're on the subject, which inexpensive condensor would you recommend for basic recording? I'm not looking to do professional quality stuff, just something to help record some jamming in the garage. Right now I have a dynamic in the middle of the room, because we play across from each other, in the round sorta. I need something that'll pick up a little better. I've tried putting another condensor on one side of the room and it helped a little but added more noise too. A condensor would really be the ticket to get everything just right. Also, it would be nice if it had battery phantom power ability. I don't have a phantom supply.

Its hard to say what would be good to pickup an entire band in a room, I think that would have more to do with getting optimum mic placement. I'll always stand by my Studio Projects B1. For its price I don't think it can be beat. There's also the C1 which is used more for vocals. Also the Rode NT series is really good, the NT-1 is only around $200. And the Audio-Technica 20/20 is pretty decent as well though I think the B1 is better.

 

[ErikH]

Re: Mic overload to the board--what am I doing wrong?

Its hard to say what would be good to pickup an entire band in a room, I think that would have more to do with getting optimum mic placement. I'll always stand by my Studio Projects B1. For its price I don't think it can be beat. There's also the C1 which is used more for vocals. Also the Rode NT series is really good, the NT-1 is only around $200. And the Audio-Technica 20/20 is pretty decent as well though I think the B1 is better.

Thanks. I'll check 'em out.

Yes, mic placement is a huge thing. Problem is I think I've place 'em everywhere I can thing of...LOL. The one in the middle I think just needs some minor movement in one direction or the other. It picks up the drums really well but the guitar and vocals are somewhat lacking. I tried another dynamic near my cab but it didn't help much (cheap mic).

We have 3 really good mics, my Shure SM-58 that I sing through, a V-Tech dynamic that's similar to the 58, and my bro-in-law (plays drums) has a nice Peavey that picks up good but he uses that for vocals. So right now the V-Tech gets wrapped around a guitar stand and set in the middle of the room. I think if I were to place the V-Tech a few feet from my cab and hang a condensor over him, but more towards the front of the drums, it would catch everything pretty well.

 

[TheArchitect]

Re: Mic overload to the board--what am I doing wrong?

I would also look into Kel Audio HM-1's. I have a pair and for $100 each they are outstanding mic's. If you want to go up a step I would recommend an AT4040 @300

 

[75lespaul]

Re: Mic overload to the board--what am I doing wrong?

I had much better results today using the small condensor AKG C1000S mic with the Brick and my Vox, this time using 15 watts, not one. Even got the mic within five feet or so of the amp and had the Brick set at about 2 o'clock. I also had my SM57 going through the VTB-1. Made a few scratch guitar tracks and they sounded fantastic. Lot of fun mixing them as well, getting all the different sounds.

Doing a vocal test between the VTB-1, the Brick and a Presonus Tubepre using the C1000S, the VTB-1 and Brick sounded identical--nice and full and warm and quiet. The Tubepre was close, but not as ambient or full.

 

[DeadSkinSlayer3]

Re: Mic overload to the board--what am I doing wrong?

Glad I chose the VTB-1 as my pre, that it sounds as good as the brick for 100 bucks!



As for condensors on guitar amps... they produce some of my favorite tones!

 

[75lespaul]

Re: Mic overload to the board--what am I doing wrong?

I've heard your tones and their cookin'. You sure you're only 15 dude, lol. Which condensors are you using on your cabs in the picture. If I had any of my condensors that close they'd red line. When you put them that close, do you use a preamp? I've never tried to use one without the phantom power but when I had the AKG plugged in, the signal was really low with just voice then I noticed I didn't have the phantom power on. So you still get signal and an amp would provide plenty of signal.

Yeah, that VTB-1 sounds surprisingly good. I have to admit, with the stock tube it didn't sound as good as the Brick, but once I put in a JJ ECC81 from Eurotubes, that's when it matched up. At least to my old tin ears hee hee. The presonus was close as well, but just didn't "have it"

 

[DeadSkinSlayer3]

Re: Mic overload to the board--what am I doing wrong?

Haha those aren't actually my pictures... all of my tones were either PODxt or a single SM57 .

The first pic runs into a Digi002 rack, and the tones can be heard here:
http://www.tesseractband.co.uk/sounds.php

I honestly forget on the second one, I just remember the tone being godly.