Middle position out of phase...HELP

[dxlxntxxlxr]

I just installed a bkp juggernaut set in my ibanez following this diagram


What does that disclaimer at the bottom mean? Can i literally just flip the pickup round? if not, how do i make the middle position in phase?

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Middle position out of phase...HELP

What it means is you have to take out the neck magnet it flip it 180 degrees, flipping the whole pickup will not work.

 

[dxlxntxxlxr]

Re: Middle position out of phase...HELP

What it means is you have to take out the neck magnet it flip it 180 degrees, flipping the whole pickup will not work.

i was afraid of that. Can i just rewire something?

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Middle position out of phase...HELP

Yes, I don't know what Bare Knuckles coloring code is, but I will find out and get back to you on it. All you need to do is reverse the phase of the individual coils and then reverse the phase of the whole pickup. It won't cancel hum in position 2 though.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Middle position out of phase...HELP

This wiring scheme is one where you need the phase flip because of the coils that are being selected. Surely with the complexity of the alternative option simply flipping the mag is the far easier option.

 

[gregory]

Re: Middle position out of phase...HELP

All you need to do is reverse the phase of the individual coils and then reverse the phase of the whole pickup.

You reverse the wires of each coil, period.

It won't cancel hum in position 2 though.

Correct.

 

[gregory]

Re: Middle position out of phase...HELP

@dxlxntxxlxr:

To reverse the phase...

With one of the pickups, swap:

red <-> green

and​

black <-> white


I'd do it the right way and just flip one of the magnets, leaving the wiring alone, however.

 

[dxlxntxxlxr]

Re: Middle position out of phase...HELP

@dxlxntxxlxr:

To reverse the phase...

With one of the pickups, swap:

red <-> green

and​

black <-> white


I'd do it the right way and just flip one of the magnets, leaving the wiring alone, however.

is there some kind of advantage to flipping the magnet instead?

 

[gregory]

Re: Middle position out of phase...HELP

Hum cancelling when split coils are combined.

 

[dxlxntxxlxr]

Re: Middle position out of phase...HELP

Hum cancelling when split coils are combined.

and theres no way i can wire it and have it hum cancel?

 

[gregory]

Re: Middle position out of phase...HELP

Yes, out of phase: what caused you to seek help in the first place.

 

[dxlxntxxlxr]

Re: Middle position out of phase...HELP

Yes, out of phase: what caused you to seek help in the first place.

haha alrighty then

 

[gregory]

Re: Middle position out of phase...HELP

You could split the neck pickup to the opposite coil and turn it around so that it is on the inside (or leave it on the outside, though I prefer the sound of the inner coils, personally). To do that also swap just the red with the black.

You could instead perform the red/black wire swap and rotation on the bridge pickup if you like.

 

[dxlxntxxlxr]

Re: Middle position out of phase...HELP

You could split the neck pickup to the opposite coil and turn it around so that it is on the inside (or leave it on the outside, though I prefer the sound of the inner coils, personally). To do that also swap just the red with the black.

You could instead perform the red/black wire swap and rotation on the bridge pickup if you like.

could u elaborate on the first part? im not sure how the wires and **** work, im a total noob at this stuff

 

[gregory]

Re: Middle position out of phase...HELP

Because the neck is also wired in parallel, in addition to swapping thd red and black, you would also have to swap the white and green.

The idea is to put one of the screw coils on the inside and split to that. That way you combine one screw coil with one slug coil which will cancel hum when they are in phase.

 

[dxlxntxxlxr]

Re: Middle position out of phase...HELP

Because the neck is also wired in parallel, in addition to swapping thd red and black, you would also have to swap the white and green.

The idea is to put one of the screw coils on the inside and split to that. That way you combine one screw coil with one slug coil which will cancel hum when they are in phase.

but earlier u said swap green and red and black and white...

 

[gregory]

Re: Middle position out of phase...HELP

Earlier was to fix the phase while running two slug coils, which will result in hum.

You don't want hum but also don't want to flip the magnet (flipping a magnet is an easy task, BTW).

I proposed rotating a pickup so the inner coils consist of one screw coil and one slug coil. This will allow the inner coils to be in phase and hum-cancelling.

The first scenario involves different wiring from the second scenario.

In the second scenario, you have to reverse the phase of a pickup (to fix the current problem because the wiring assumes the magnet in one pickup is flipped, but that isn't the case) and rotate that pickup. For the bridge pickup the white and green are already connected to the same point so there is nothing to swap. OTOH, the neck pickup has all four wires running to different locations, so you have to swap the green and the white as well as swap the red with the black.

So you have three choices, for in-phase operation, one is to flip a magnet, one is to deal with hum in position 2 (which is also currently out of phase, not just position 3), the final one is to rotate one pickup, which may or may not result in an audible difference.

I realize that this may seem overwhelming and after factoring in the fact that each manufacturer has their own color-coding it is all the more difficult. Anyway, if you understand how phase relates to magnetic polarity and the direction of current flow, and have done a few then it's not such a big deal.

 

[dxlxntxxlxr]

Re: Middle position out of phase...HELP

Earlier was to fix the phase while running two slug coils, which will result in hum.

You don't want hum but also don't want to flip the magnet (flipping a magnet is an easy task, BTW).

I proposed rotating a pickup so the inner coils consist of one screw coil and one slug coil. This will allow the inner coils to be in phase and hum-cancelling.

The first scenario involves different wiring from the second scenario.

In the second scenario, you have to reverse the phase of a pickup (to fix the current problem because the wiring assumes the magnet in one pickup is flipped, but that isn't the case) and rotate that pickup. For the bridge pickup the white and green are already connected to the same point so there is nothing to swap. OTOH, the neck pickup has all four wires running to different locations, so you have to swap the green and the white as well as swap the red with the black.

So you have three choices, for in-phase operation, one is to flip a magnet, one is to deal with hum in position 2 (which is also currently out of phase, not just position 3), the final one is to rotate one pickup, which may or may not result in an audible difference.

I realize that this may seem overwhelming and after factoring in the fact that each manufacturer has their own color-coding it is all the more difficult. Anyway, if you understand how phase relates to magnetic polarity and the direction of current flow, and have done a few then it's not such a big deal.

Thanks that clears it up

 

[gregory]

Re: Middle position out of phase...HELP

You're welcome.

One more clarification...

In the second scenario [...] For the bridge pickup the white and green are already connected to the same point so there is nothing to swap.

I meant nothing to swap regarding the green and white. The red and the black would still need to be swapped assuming you wish to rotate the bridge pickup.

Flipping the magnet is the easiest and simplest solution.

 

[dxlxntxxlxr]

Re: Middle position out of phase...HELP

You're welcome.

One more clarification...

I meant nothing to swap regarding the green and white. The red and the black would still need to be swapped assuming you wish to rotate the bridge pickup.

Flipping the magnet is the easiest and simplest solution.

I dont want to flip the magnet cause its covered and that a pain. Do u know of a way to wire this so the positions are bridge, split outer, both on full, split inner, neck?