Mini Humbucker VS. Firebird pick up.

[SirJackdeFuzz II]

Hope someone can put some much needed light on this topic.
It is my understanding that they are two different beasts.
Almost like a Jazzmaster pick up is not a P90, kinda thing.
They do look extremely similar.
Is there a construction difference under the cover (... between the Mini Hum & Firebird unit.)
And more importantly, what is the tonal difference between these two ?
Thanks to all.

 

[Ashurbanipal]

Tldr: a mini hum is built like a normal sized one - ferrous poles (one row adjustable) with an alnico bar underneath; a Firebird pu has alnico bars set in the bobbins themselves, a steel reflector plate underneath and a small one on top which would fall under the B string. There were some variations over the years (e.g. Firebird pups in the 70s and 80s are different to 60s ones), but those are the fundamental differences in their respective construction.

The mini hum first appeared in Epiphones and Silvertones (those were made by Gibson for Silvertone), and only in the 70s did it feature in a Gibson guitar, the LP Deluxe. The Fb pups were designed specifically for the guitar.

More detailed breakdown here: https://www.mylespaul.com/threads/f...ihumbuckers-copied-from-other-gibsons.270442/ .

Since both are smaller and sense a narrower string path, they will be brighter than a normal hb. The Firebird pu itself is brighter than a mini hum, due to its construction and generally lower dcr (I'm talking about 60s examples here). Some people find that the bridge position in old Firebirds is too thin/bright sounding because of this. The old minis, since they were made out of the same materials as PAFs (plain enamel wire, short alnico mag), are said to sound quite similar, with more top/bite.

 

[freefrog]

What fellow member said.

Let's add that FB mini's have a stronger magnetism, a lower inductance and a pointier resonant frequency than mini-HB's...

... and that mini-HB's actually make harmonics less prominent than full-sized ones. It counteracts the brightnening effect of a narrower magnetic window. So mini-HB's are not THAT bright, unlike FB ones.

That said, it's doable to mimic a mini-HB with a FB pickup, by lowering the tone pot. The contrary is not that easy: it requires a dummy coil with defined values in parallel with the pickup.

FWIW (I've both kinds of pickups at disposal here and I apply the strategies evoked above).

 

[Ashurbanipal]

^^ Have you tried Fb pups with 250k pots? Have heard this can be beneficial if they're a bit waspy.

From what I understand, the 70s mini hums were different again - they were using poly wire by then and also had a weaker wind than early 60s ones? Listening to the Who in that time, for instance, Townshend's sound was quite wiry (yes, a Hiwatt is very transient/brilliant sounding amp). Of course, his best tone was Rickenbacker/Bassman and SG/Hiwatt .

 

[Teleplayer]

Generally the firebird pickups are considerably brighter. They are typically very clear with strong dynamics.

There can be a really big variation between the mini humbuckers. They are normally higher output than firebird pickups. Some of them can be almost as dark as a full size humbucker. There are also some that can be bright and articulate. Some mini humbuckers I’ve tried made me feel they were similar to firebird pickups, but that is not typical. If you want mini humbuckers like that you will definitely need to seek them out.

 

[freefrog]

^^ Have you tried Fb pups with 250k pots? Have heard this can be beneficial if they're a bit waspy.

From what I understand, the 70s mini hums were different again - they were using poly wire by then and also had a weaker wind than early 60s ones? Listening to the Who in that time, for instance, Townshend's sound was quite wiry (yes, a Hiwatt is very transient/brilliant sounding amp). Of course, his best tone was Rickenbacker/Bassman and SG/Hiwatt .

Not tried 250k pots since 500k pots with tone lowered give me a similar response. Maybe I would mount a 250k volume control if I was abundantly using my volume with FB/mini-hum PUs but it's not the case.

Agreed about Townshend and about differences between mini-hum generations... I've even an Epi model here whose coil have obviously been overwound with AWG43. It has more inductance than a T-Top and sounds largely like a full sized HB.

 

[Chistopher]

Also worth noting that P90s, mini hums, and firebird pickups all will fit in the same route, however they usually mount differently

 

[GuitarStv]

Firebird pickups sound brighter. You can get something very similar to the sound of a minihum by knocking back the tone on a firebird pickup. I really like firebird pickups - minihums sometimes sound muddy.

 

[zionstrat]

All the technicalities are covered well..

From an experience perspective, a firebird neck acts a lot like a hum free single coil. Good fast attack. Clear and clean are kind of a combination of a strat and a p90. When crunched they can really bite and cut through a mix with more body than a SC.

Mini falls exactly in between a regular humbucker and a firebird.. as mentioned before it's a bit brighter seeing less of the strings, but it's got a slower attack then a firebird.. much more like a regular humbucker.

One of the best comparisons is on a telecaster.. If you use a mini, you can still get a very traditional center mix... Especially if you parallel the mini to itself. So it remains a telecaster in positions one and two and then all the sudden you got umph in position three.

With the firebird everything is bright.. Great for chicken picking cutting through kind of tones.

24 and 3/4 with mahogany definitely tames the firebird a bit but the mini will still fall in the middle.

 

[jeremy]

i use an antiquity ii fb neck pup in my tele, paired with a tele bridge pup and i think its wonderful. 250k pots

i really like minis too but in a fender neck position, i tend to prefer the fb pup. probably due to the attack and narrower res peak, which is similar to a strat or tele pup

 

[SirJackdeFuzz II]

GREAT INFO.
Thanks to all thus far . . . keep 'em coming !

 

[ToneFiddler]

Got a firebird PU in the neck of a tele too.
In a blind test i would mistake it for a single coil.
I like it very much!

 

[chadd]

Got a firebird PU in the neck of a tele too.
In a blind test i would mistake it for a single coil.
I like it very much!

A good Firebird style pickup sounds like a big, noiseless single coil to me. They are my favorite tele neck pickup, too.

 

[Supernautilus]

This is where my SM1 lives. Along with the A5 Phat Cat in the bridge, it's a nice combo.

I have to say that the SM1 is not quite as bright as I was led to believe though. I have 2x 500K pots in this guitar and it's just about right. Maybe it's just this guitar, but I wouldn't want it any darker than it is now. The SM1 is nice and juicy. It's got bite but also some thickness to it. It's a particular sound, that's for sure.

​​

 

[SirJackdeFuzz II]

This is where my SM1 lives. Along with the A5 Phat Cat in the bridge, it's a nice combo.

I have to say that the SM1 is not quite as bright as I was led to believe though. I have 2x 500K pots in this guitar and it's just about right. Maybe it's just this guitar, but I wouldn't want it any darker than it is now. The SM1 is nice and juicy. It's got bite but also some thickness to it. It's a particular sound, that's for sure.

​​

W O W . . . very, very nice !!!