Mixer in front of amp?

[thechrislnew]

Hi all, so lets say I wanted to have some options in my rig including:

--placing a phaser in the FX loop but having control of the wet/dry mix (which isn't on the phaser itself).

--Sending a signal briefly to a tape echo but then allowing the return to self-oscillate once the send is turned off.

Both of these could be done quite easily with a small mixer between the FX board and the amp. Would this affect the tone much? I know it will to some degree but I'm referring to impedance or level mismatch issues? Would I need some kind of Reamp device from the mixer output to the amp or at least something to pad the line level output?

I'm curious why this isn't done more often since small mixers are pretty cheap and there are a lot of other interesting things that could be done with FX before the amp with the versatility of a mixer in the path.

Thanks, chrisL

 

[thechrislnew]

Re: Mixer in front of amp?

...Of course the obvious way to do all this in the studio is to record the basic track and then do the interesting send things via the main console as with other effects.

I was asking more from the perspective of the actual performance live or otherwise. Perhaps inventing a floor based mixing device with foot control for the send levels is my million dollar ticket...

chrisL

 

[J Moose]

Re: Mixer in front of amp?

Both of these could be done quite easily with a small mixer between the FX board and the amp. Would this affect the tone much? I know it will to some degree but I'm referring to impedance or level mismatch issues? Would I need some kind of Reamp device from the mixer output to the amp or at least something to pad the line level output?

If your talking about using a little smackie mixer or something to blend the FX against & into the dry amp then you'll most surely run into level & impedance mismatches. They can be dealt with of course...

Another option would be to get an amp with a parallel FX loop and use that.

Yet another option would be to run a "dry" amp and a "wet" amp... the wet amp being dedicated to FX chores.

 

[thechrislnew]

Re: Mixer in front of amp?

Yes that's what I was talking about. How would you deal with the mismatches? Just between the mixer out and amp in? Reamp device? Simple mic pad?

I do have an amp with FX loop but it's all or nothing, so to speak. For example, placing a volume pedal and Space Echo in the loop and using the volume pedal to control what goes into the loop. Doesn't work. Once the pedal goes to zero, so does the return signal.

I have a little Boss stomp-mixer that I use for the wet/dry phaser thing since it has level control. I was just thinking bigger. Something with several channels and a couple send/return loops AND designed to work at guitar levels.

 

[J Moose]

Re: Mixer in front of amp?

Yes that's what I was talking about. How would you deal with the mismatches? Just between the mixer out and amp in? Reamp device? Simple mic pad?

Do you want this before the amp, or after in an FX loop?

Before the amp... some kind of transformer would be only viable solution I'd think. Maybe a reamp box, but a lot what your paying for & getting IS the transformer.

Either way, I'd think that it would really "screw up" a guitar signal... so I dunno. Unless your after something different...

What your talking about does exist though... guys like Bob Bradshaw & Pete Cornish have built little FX mixers for guitar level stuff. You could probably find plans for a passive 'blend' box & get one built without a struggle...

Best of luck with it!

 

[erikm5150]

Re: Mixer in front of amp?

i think a boss LS-2 or the radial bigmix pedal can do what you want

http://www.zzounds.com/item--RADBSMIX

 

[thechrislnew]

Re: Mixer in front of amp?

Thanks y'all. I don't think what I want is quite there yet though the Bradshaw/Corning specialty thing is an option ($$$). The LS2 is what I use with the phaser and it fills that specific need.

Probably my best or at least cheapest option is a small mixer with hi z inputs, then a reamp/transformer at the output going to the amp. Should be no different than reamping from a recorded DI signal, but on the fly...

 

[J Moose]

Re: Mixer in front of amp?

All those transformers & whatnot are going to take a toll on the 'pure' signal of the guitar... not sure if that matters but it certainly won't be the same as a straight path. Even reamping a "dry" DI guitar isn't exactly the same as going right into the amp...

 

[thechrislnew]

Re: Mixer in front of amp?

Yeah, actually it does matter. I'm trying to keep a fairly 'vintage' state of mind though I'm no SRV or Hendrix. Most of the gear is analog/true bypass, etc. Even the Boss LS2 is arguably mucking with the tone a bit. Part of me hoped I could ditch that for something more versatile and transparent.

This little guy looks like it could work but at about triple the price I was hoping to spend. Since I'm primarily a studio guy right now, I can continue the status quo -- tracking a fairly pure signal (mic or DI) and then tweaking later.

 

[J Moose]

Re: Mixer in front of amp?

PCP rawks.

When Johnathon introduced the IBP & it had a DI on there I told him it should do reamping too... he said it was entirely & easily possible to do that... so he did.

The PCP won't give you mix/blend options. Only +4 to guitar level & back again.

It does change the direct tone somewhat as well. Not nearly as drastically as other, similar boxes... but still does nonetheless.

Then again, I can totally hear the difference between a 10 foot instrument cable and a 25 foot cable. Not that I care... gimme one that works but for reference...

He's a crazy guy, Mr. Little. He builds LOTS of "custom" one-off boxes as well...

If this is a 'moneys no object' kind of project then there's few better then Johnathon Little to build whatever it is you can dream up.

I've always told him that he should branch into guitar splitter/combiner boxes...

How about a Digital Music Ground Control? Does that offer blending options?

One of my favorite sites... you might enjoy this!

http://www.willitblend.com/videos.aspx?type=unsafe&video=driver

 

[thechrislnew]

Re: Mixer in front of amp?

I think the Ground Control is now Voodoo Labs and it's a MIDI switcher. I was looking for something in the price range of a couple Boss pedals so I'm probably out of luck for now. I do have a mostly unused Mackie 1402 and a reamp box so I can always do some experimenting.

If it doesn't work, I can always throw a few pedals and cables in the blender. Could get lucky... :scratchch