MOD vs BUILD. OR AM I JUST A BIT OCD?

[AniML]

Re: MOD vs BUILD. OR AM I JUST A BIT OCD?

Mod / Assemble / Build

Mod: changes to an existing guitar
Assemble: take various (existing) parts and assemble them into a guitar
Build: ???

If you paint raw bodies and necks and assemble is that a build, or do you need to cut wood for it to be a build? How about machining bridges and winding pickups?

I think the missing word for a build from raw materials is "fabricate". But one does not need to fabricate to build. If someone builds a house they are probably not also milling the wood.

I think there are 3 general "levels" of build:

1. Kit - everything is sourced for you, maybe even with instructions
2. Sourced - everything is sourced by you, and you might or might not finish the body or have it done.
3. Fabricated - components are hand made by the builder, though some builders fabricate maybe just the body, while others fabricate most or all of the build

 

[CaptainWhizz]

Re: MOD vs BUILD. OR AM I JUST A BIT OCD?

Mod / Assemble / Build

Mod: changes to an existing guitar
Assemble: take various (existing) parts and assemble them into a guitar
Build: ???

This is how I think of it. I'm not sure exactly where the line is, but if I didn't shape the neck myself out of a blank, I'm not sure I'd call it a "building" a guitar. But that's just me.

 

[Masta' C]

Re: MOD vs BUILD. OR AM I JUST A BIT OCD?

"Fabricate" is far better (and more accurate) than "build" for what everyone here is trying to indicate...

Again, the problem stated by the OP is that non-woodworkers are posting modifications/assemblies that do not involve a degree of woodworking skill. This is because "build" is understood to be a broad term and, in layman use, not specific to woodworking in any way.

Well, the definition of fabricate is "to invent or manufacture".

That's precisely the definition woodworkers are stubbornly attempting to ascribe to "build", which already has its own definition: "construct by putting parts or material together over a period of time"

So, by definition alone, "fabrication" is the appropriate term for a woodworker's "build", whereas "build" is clearly a more general constructing of something which could equally refer to someone assembling a kit, etc.

Time to change the other thread title to: "Who's working on a Fab?"

:beerchug:

 

[blakejcan]

Re: MOD vs BUILD. OR AM I JUST A BIT OCD?

I'm with you on this one.

Similar thing gets me when people say "I took it to MY luthier".

Like oh, wow, the guy in the shop you kinda know passively who does your string changes for money? That's YOUR luthier? Does he go on tour with you when you play living rooms across your neighborhood?

 

[Chistopher]

Re: MOD vs BUILD. OR AM I JUST A BIT OCD?

I'm with you on this one.

Similar thing gets me when people say "I took it to MY luthier".

Like oh, wow, the guy in the shop you kinda know passively who does your string changes for money? That's YOUR luthier? Does he go on tour with you when you play living rooms across your neighborhood?

I've think people use the phrase "my luthier" as a way to abbreviate "my local luthier". It is not often used as an indicator of ownership or endearment.

 

[Dave Locher]

Re: MOD vs BUILD. OR AM I JUST A BIT OCD?

We do the same thing in the custom car world - we say we "built" a lead sled because it is much easier than saying "I totally rebuilt this car from the ground up, extensively modifying it along the way" and we all know what we mean. Sometimes someone really does completely construct a car from raw materials, and we sometimes say the "fabricated the entire car."
But I consider my three guitars to be "modded" (the Marauder), "assembled" (partscaster, even though every part was modified by me and the pickguard is fabricated from sheetmetal) and "built from scratch" (the semi-hollow, which started out as a pile of lumber) so I am at least 95% in agreement with you original post.

However, I think a luthier is someone who can produce good quality acoustic guitars. Solidbody makers are "guitar builders" afaiac. It's just a different level of skills and knowledge. But I don't freak out every time a guitar builder or a repair tech is referred to as a luthier.

 

[Wattage]

Re: MOD vs BUILD. OR AM I JUST A BIT OCD?

Well I've modded, assembled, messed up beyond repair, rebuilt and any number of other things but I can't say I've "built" or fabricated a guitar. I assembled or put together about 250 computers and if I said anything other than I built them people were confused as ****, I imagine it's about the same with guitars. Using terms colloquially on a web forum doesn't lessen the value of what full on builders/luthiers/fabricators do.

 

[ICTGoober]

Re: MOD vs BUILD. OR AM I JUST A BIT OCD?

However, I think a luthier is someone who can produce good quality acoustic guitars. Solidbody makers are "guitar builders" afaiac. It's just a different level of skills and knowledge.

I dare you to stand in front of Paul Reed Smith and tell him he's NOT a luthier. I'll catch you when you fall.

 

[Dave Locher]

Re: MOD vs BUILD. OR AM I JUST A BIT OCD?

I dare you to stand in front of Paul Reed Smith and tell him he's NOT a luthier. I'll catch you when you fall.

He isn't. Unless/until he can build a great acoustic or carved top hollowbody guitar by hand he is a guitar builder. A very successful guitar builder, but a guitar builder.
But I wouldn't tell him that because it's just a semantic thing on my part and he can call himself an elephant if he likes and I would not argue with him.

(I am not a PRS fan or historian - he didn't start off doing hand-carved jazz boxes, did he? If he did, them he IS a luthier who now works as a guitar designer and manufacturer.)

 

[Obsessive Compulsive]

Re: MOD vs BUILD. OR AM I JUST A BIT OCD?

Building a guitar is like building a house, you do everything from scratch and that requires skills and experience. Putting together parts from Warmoth are 'assembling' a guitar. Two different things.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: MOD vs BUILD. OR AM I JUST A BIT OCD?

I don't think I've heard anyone call a simple mod like a pickup swap a "build." Most people say "build" when they really mean "assembly," using pre-made parts. But I am perfectly fine with that terminology, and it isn't going to change. "Scratch build" is what I would say is the term for what you are talking about. "To-spec build" is what I would say for an assembly in which the parts used were ordered to be made from scratch from an outside source (e.g. Musikraft, USACG, etc.).

I generally do "to-spec assemblies" (though I would have no problem calling them "builds," informally). I often do the finishing myself. If its an opaque non-metallic, a non-burst translucent color, or just clear, I do it myself. If it is a burst or a metallic, I pay to have someone else do it. Once I consider my time, a spec-built body is usually worth it, and a spec-built neck, WELL worth it (aside from the fact that they'd probably make the neck better than I would).

 

[Lovegun]

Re: MOD vs BUILD. OR AM I JUST A BIT OCD?

How many guitar companies really build guitars these days? I think it would surprise many that even big companies slap templates in a router and then assemble the parts.

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: MOD vs BUILD. OR AM I JUST A BIT OCD?

I’ll freely admit to using the term “build” for the guitars I’ve assembled. I quite simply lack the skills (and tools) for transforming a piece of wood into a body or neck, so I buy the parts and put them together. I’ve yet to buy a kit, preferring to source most of the parts separately. It’s just more fun, interesting, and personal that way.

My personal definition of the term “build” is in line with this definition:

Using it, the guy who buys a kit is building a guitar every bit as much as the guy who starts with a piece of wood and turns it into an instrument. The difference lies in skill levels and respect from others. There are folks who think the guitars I’ve built are really cool, but I don’t think anyone would disagree with me when I say that someone who started with the raw materials possesses much greater skills than me and deserves more kudos.

Oh yeah... pickup/hardware swaps should be mods instead of builds. Stickers, while possibly interesting or fun, really don’t even count as mods!

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: MOD vs BUILD. OR AM I JUST A BIT OCD?

"Fabricate" is far better (and more accurate) than "build" for what everyone here is trying to indicate...

Again, the problem stated by the OP is that non-woodworkers are posting modifications/assemblies that do not involve a degree of woodworking skill. This is because "build" is understood to be a broad term and, in layman use, not specific to woodworking in any way.

Well, the definition of fabricate is "to invent or manufacture".

That's precisely the definition woodworkers are stubbornly attempting to ascribe to "build", which already has its own definition: "construct by putting parts or material together over a period of time"

So, by definition alone, "fabrication" is the appropriate term for a woodworker's "build", whereas "build" is clearly a more general constructing of something which could equally refer to someone assembling a kit, etc.

Time to change the other thread title to: "Who's working on a Fab?"

:beerchug:

Very good thought. Hmm, "fabricate"! Sounds good. But we can't say..."Who's working on a Fab". Because of the Beatles, the term "FAB" has a general meaning of "fabulous".

 

[Wattage]

Re: MOD vs BUILD. OR AM I JUST A BIT OCD?

Just a thought

Pet peeves and OCD issues really don’t work well anywhere but especially webgroups

 

[Demanic]

Re: MOD vs BUILD. OR AM I JUST A BIT OCD?

Just a thought

Pet peeves and OCD issues really don’t work well anywhere but especially webgroups

But they do make for interesting conversation.

Sent from my Alcatel_5044C using Tapatalk

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: MOD vs BUILD. OR AM I JUST A BIT OCD?

We do the same thing in the custom car world - we say we "built" a lead sled because it is much easier than saying "I totally rebuilt this car from the ground up, extensively modifying it along the way" and we all know what we mean. Sometimes someone really does completely construct a car from raw materials, and we sometimes say the "fabricated the entire car."
But I consider my three guitars to be "modded" (the Marauder), "assembled" (partscaster, even though every part was modified by me and the pickguard is fabricated from sheetmetal) and "built from scratch" (the semi-hollow, which started out as a pile of lumber) so I am at least 95% in agreement with you original post.

However, I think a luthier is someone who can produce good quality acoustic guitars. Solidbody makers are "guitar builders" afaiac. It's just a different level of skills and knowledge. But I don't freak out every time a guitar builder or a repair tech is referred to as a luthier.

Unless you're carving the engine block from a piece of steel, I don't think that any person who builds a car actually meets the definition of 'build' as described in the OP. It's mostly just buying bits and pieces and sticking them together, isn't it? I think he would prefer that you call it 'assembling' a car.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: MOD vs BUILD. OR AM I JUST A BIT OCD?

Just a thought

Pet peeves and OCD issues really don’t work well anywhere but especially webgroups

Oh?

Really.:smack:

Well I guess, then, that most of us shouldn't be here because it is very apparent that just about everyone on this forum has some thing or things that really bother them (including you whose pet peeve is people who have pet peeves or OCD).:biglaugh:

But as Demanic said...it makes for "interesting conversation".

 

[Demanic]

Re: MOD vs BUILD. OR AM I JUST A BIT OCD?

Unless you're carving the engine block from a piece of steel, I don't think that any person who builds a car actually meets the definition of 'build' as described in the OP. It's mostly just buying bits and pieces and sticking them together, isn't it? I think he would prefer that you call it 'assembling' a car.

Aren't engine blocks usually cast?
Just saying.

Sent from my Alcatel_5044C using Tapatalk

 

[ICTGoober]

Re: MOD vs BUILD. OR AM I JUST A BIT OCD?

Aren't engine blocks usually cast? Just saying.

Yes. Mostly cast iron.