Moderate Output Single Coils - What's out there?
- Thread starter jtougas
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Southbound Suarez
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Re: Moderate Output Single Coils - What's out there?
You've got the STL-1B @ 8K, the STL-1 @7K and I'm sure a few others if examined more closely.
You've got the STL-1B @ 8K, the STL-1 @7K and I'm sure a few others if examined more closely.
jtougas
New member
Re: Moderate Output Single Coils - What's out there?
Those are both bridge pickups... Even knowing I could use them fine in the neck, if I were going for a full set (for which 13k bridge would probably still suit my needs), a middle position RW pickup would probably need a call to the CS. I'm looking for production sets...
Those are both bridge pickups... Even knowing I could use them fine in the neck, if I were going for a full set (for which 13k bridge would probably still suit my needs), a middle position RW pickup would probably need a call to the CS. I'm looking for production sets...
Southbound Suarez
New member
Re: Moderate Output Single Coils - What's out there?
It'd be nice to know all the details up front.
It'd be nice to know all the details up front.
Southbound Suarez
New member
Re: Moderate Output Single Coils - What's out there?
If you want production sets then I'd urge you to speak with David Plummer aka "Zhangbucker" on this forum.
http://www.zhangbucker.com/
If you want production sets then I'd urge you to speak with David Plummer aka "Zhangbucker" on this forum.
http://www.zhangbucker.com/
Zhangliqun
Questionologist
Re: Moderate Output Single Coils - What's out there?
This is a similar situation to the state of humbuckers about 10-15 years ago that got me into winding -- this huge, gaping no-man's land between 8k and 14k. That gap is still largely there among the big guys, though at least Duncan has at least dipped its toe in the water with a few models like the BroBucker. But the gap is largely being filled by the little guys.
Fralin is willing to wind Strats up to about 9k (we're talking 42 AWG, not switching to 43 AWG and giving that misleadingly high DCR spec) last I checked. He won't go above 9 because he says they sound like crap beyond that point. I know of at least one other guy who's willing to wind to 9 with 42 (and beyond) and you can probably guess who that is.
This is a similar situation to the state of humbuckers about 10-15 years ago that got me into winding -- this huge, gaping no-man's land between 8k and 14k. That gap is still largely there among the big guys, though at least Duncan has at least dipped its toe in the water with a few models like the BroBucker. But the gap is largely being filled by the little guys.
Fralin is willing to wind Strats up to about 9k (we're talking 42 AWG, not switching to 43 AWG and giving that misleadingly high DCR spec) last I checked. He won't go above 9 because he says they sound like crap beyond that point. I know of at least one other guy who's willing to wind to 9 with 42 (and beyond) and you can probably guess who that is.
Re: Moderate Output Single Coils - What's out there?
The ssl5 is actually a 43 gauge, so its in the mid 9s if you convert it to 42k reading.
But no one really does the hot vintage or medium output area well aparr from the aforementioned zhangbucker. He can make a medium output pickup sound just as vintage clear as you like.
edit....he beat me to it!
I have one of his 9k+ strat winds, and it sits alongside 5.8k neck and 5.5k middles without sounding like you've just switched guitars.
The ssl5 is actually a 43 gauge, so its in the mid 9s if you convert it to 42k reading.
But no one really does the hot vintage or medium output area well aparr from the aforementioned zhangbucker. He can make a medium output pickup sound just as vintage clear as you like.
edit....he beat me to it!
I have one of his 9k+ strat winds, and it sits alongside 5.8k neck and 5.5k middles without sounding like you've just switched guitars.
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stratguy23
New member
Re: Moderate Output Single Coils - What's out there?
Mojotone has some Strat bridge pickups with your desired numbers. I haven't tried any, but the noiseless series have me seriously interested:
Two-Face (alnico rod, ceramic bar, 10K): http://www.mojotone.com/Pickups_x/StratocasterPickups_x/Mojotone-Two-Face-Strat-Pickup
Knockout (ceramic, evidently P-90-esque, 10K): http://www.mojotone.com/Pickups_x/StratocasterPickups_x/Mojotone-Knockout-Strat-Pickup
Hot Quiet Coil (unspecified alnico type, noiseless side-by-side coils, 11K): http://www.mojotone.com/Pickups_x/StratocasterPickups_x/Mojotone-HOT-Quiet-Coil-Strat-Bridge-Pickup
Mojotone has some Strat bridge pickups with your desired numbers. I haven't tried any, but the noiseless series have me seriously interested:
Two-Face (alnico rod, ceramic bar, 10K): http://www.mojotone.com/Pickups_x/StratocasterPickups_x/Mojotone-Two-Face-Strat-Pickup
Knockout (ceramic, evidently P-90-esque, 10K): http://www.mojotone.com/Pickups_x/StratocasterPickups_x/Mojotone-Knockout-Strat-Pickup
Hot Quiet Coil (unspecified alnico type, noiseless side-by-side coils, 11K): http://www.mojotone.com/Pickups_x/StratocasterPickups_x/Mojotone-HOT-Quiet-Coil-Strat-Bridge-Pickup
Southbound Suarez
New member
Re: Moderate Output Single Coils - What's out there?
It's always taken a little bit more elbow grease and experimentation to produce pickups in this output range that aren't limited in their tonal qualities. You've produced the Paul Bunyan single coil which is a modern classic for the moderate output class of pups. I was happily there with you in the beginning (remember my friend Maurice the jazzer?). I'm really proud to see that your business has taken off as it has. Fortunately no more dead end jobs and working for the man eh? One of these days David, I'd like to get a set of your Pure Handwound humbuckers. Current problem is I have (7) unused sets of humbuckers: (2) Burstbucker Pro Sets ; (2) 57' Classic Sets ; (1) Seth Lover Set ; (1) Alnico Pro II Set ; (1) Greco 80's Set. I have been holding onto the Gibson pups only in case I ever had to sell any of my Gibson guitars.
It's always taken a little bit more elbow grease and experimentation to produce pickups in this output range that aren't limited in their tonal qualities. You've produced the Paul Bunyan single coil which is a modern classic for the moderate output class of pups. I was happily there with you in the beginning (remember my friend Maurice the jazzer?). I'm really proud to see that your business has taken off as it has. Fortunately no more dead end jobs and working for the man eh? One of these days David, I'd like to get a set of your Pure Handwound humbuckers. Current problem is I have (7) unused sets of humbuckers: (2) Burstbucker Pro Sets ; (2) 57' Classic Sets ; (1) Seth Lover Set ; (1) Alnico Pro II Set ; (1) Greco 80's Set. I have been holding onto the Gibson pups only in case I ever had to sell any of my Gibson guitars.
eclecticsynergy
New member
Re: Moderate Output Single Coils - What's out there?
+1 on Zhangbuckers, I have several and they really sing, especially the pure handwound. And I agree the Paul Bunyan is a genuine classic that doesn't sound overwound.
There are a couple of those P90-type Strat sets on the market; I have a Pete Biltoft (VintageVibe) S-90 singlecoil set which read 8.46, 8.5 & 10.11kΩ. They're rich & punchy but still more Stratlike than P90ish. Not a lot hotter than vintage though they feel big. They were a really good match for a thin sounding axe. I think they must be 43AWG.
+1 on Zhangbuckers, I have several and they really sing, especially the pure handwound. And I agree the Paul Bunyan is a genuine classic that doesn't sound overwound.
There are a couple of those P90-type Strat sets on the market; I have a Pete Biltoft (VintageVibe) S-90 singlecoil set which read 8.46, 8.5 & 10.11kΩ. They're rich & punchy but still more Stratlike than P90ish. Not a lot hotter than vintage though they feel big. They were a really good match for a thin sounding axe. I think they must be 43AWG.
Southbound Suarez
New member
Re: Moderate Output Single Coils - What's out there?
It's funny that you mention Pete Biltoft. Some years ago Pete wound me a set of HS-90AM pups, P90's in a humbucker space. I asked for A2 magnets on the E,B,G strings and A5 on the D,A,E strings with a gutsy vintage P90 wind (with clarity) and balanced in all three toggle positions. Pete did a fine job, and as far as I know even SD hadn't done a 5/2 set in P90's or humbucker spaced P90's sets. The NK reads 9.33K and the BR reads 11.38K, and I'm looking at them with their original paperwork and boxes as we speak. Here is exactly what they look like...
It's funny that you mention Pete Biltoft. Some years ago Pete wound me a set of HS-90AM pups, P90's in a humbucker space. I asked for A2 magnets on the E,B,G strings and A5 on the D,A,E strings with a gutsy vintage P90 wind (with clarity) and balanced in all three toggle positions. Pete did a fine job, and as far as I know even SD hadn't done a 5/2 set in P90's or humbucker spaced P90's sets. The NK reads 9.33K and the BR reads 11.38K, and I'm looking at them with their original paperwork and boxes as we speak. Here is exactly what they look like...
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Southbound Suarez
New member
Re: Moderate Output Single Coils - What's out there?
FWIW, if anyone is interested in purchasing the above Vintage Vibe HS-90AM set I'll sell them for $150/set which is at least a $45 or more savings.
FWIW, if anyone is interested in purchasing the above Vintage Vibe HS-90AM set I'll sell them for $150/set which is at least a $45 or more savings.
Re: Moderate Output Single Coils - What's out there?
The jump up to 13k is in part due to the use of 43 AWG wire. You max out at about 8k with 42AWG.
The real gray area is the 6k to 7k. They can sound hot or vintage depending on whether the coil capacitance is large or small. For example, Texas Specials and SSL-1's are both spec'd at about 6.5k, but the SSL-1's is a good deal brighter due to lower coil capacitance. You never know what you're going to get when a pickup as a DC resistance between 6k and 7k. That's one case where the subjective accounts are helpful in lieu of helpful technical information.
Pickups that I'd say are "moderates": Suhr ML Standard, Fender Texas Specials and Fat 50s, Duncan Twang banger, Lollar Blackface and Special S, BKP Irish Tours, Fralin Blues Special, or pretty much any set that anyone sells that has the word "Blues", "over-wound" or "hot" attached to it.
The SSL-3, 4 and 5 are kind of oddities in todays pickup market. Nothing more modern even comes close their levels of inductance.
The jump up to 13k is in part due to the use of 43 AWG wire. You max out at about 8k with 42AWG.
The real gray area is the 6k to 7k. They can sound hot or vintage depending on whether the coil capacitance is large or small. For example, Texas Specials and SSL-1's are both spec'd at about 6.5k, but the SSL-1's is a good deal brighter due to lower coil capacitance. You never know what you're going to get when a pickup as a DC resistance between 6k and 7k. That's one case where the subjective accounts are helpful in lieu of helpful technical information.
Pickups that I'd say are "moderates": Suhr ML Standard, Fender Texas Specials and Fat 50s, Duncan Twang banger, Lollar Blackface and Special S, BKP Irish Tours, Fralin Blues Special, or pretty much any set that anyone sells that has the word "Blues", "over-wound" or "hot" attached to it.
The SSL-3, 4 and 5 are kind of oddities in todays pickup market. Nothing more modern even comes close their levels of inductance.
eclecticsynergy
New member
Re: Moderate Output Single Coils - What's out there?
Those are really pretty and I bet they sound great.
I almost hate to ask, but would you consider separating them?
It's funny that you mention Pete Biltoft. Some years ago Pete wound me a set of HS-90AM pups, P90's in a humbucker space. I asked for A2 magnets on the E,B,G strings and A5 on the D,A,E strings with a gutsy vintage P90 wind (with clarity) and balanced in all three toggle positions. Pete did a fine job, and as far as I know even SD hadn't done a 5/2 set in P90's or humbucker spaced P90's sets. The NK reads 9.33K and the BR reads 11.38K, and I'm looking at them with their original paperwork and boxes as we speak. Here is exactly what they look like...
Those are really pretty and I bet they sound great.
I almost hate to ask, but would you consider separating them?
Re: Moderate Output Single Coils - What's out there?
I'm no pickup winder or R&D engineer but I've been kind of obsessed with pickups for years. As others said: wire guages have their sweet spots for winding. Most of what can be wound has been wound. To a certain degree. We're dealing mostly with flavors of existing recipes these days. Same with amps and pedals.
The "K" value is one of many regarding output. You can have two 8k hunbuckers with different mags and I guarantee the "bigger" magnet has more output.
Is this a feasibility question or perhaps there's a certain tone you're looking for? My general rule of thumb is Duncan rules the vintage World and has some really killer modern stuff. DiMarzio rules the modern world while having a few killer vintage pieces.
If you want something unusual and in between, the DiMarzio catalog might be worth a shot
I'm no pickup winder or R&D engineer but I've been kind of obsessed with pickups for years. As others said: wire guages have their sweet spots for winding. Most of what can be wound has been wound. To a certain degree. We're dealing mostly with flavors of existing recipes these days. Same with amps and pedals.
The "K" value is one of many regarding output. You can have two 8k hunbuckers with different mags and I guarantee the "bigger" magnet has more output.
Is this a feasibility question or perhaps there's a certain tone you're looking for? My general rule of thumb is Duncan rules the vintage World and has some really killer modern stuff. DiMarzio rules the modern world while having a few killer vintage pieces.
If you want something unusual and in between, the DiMarzio catalog might be worth a shot
Southbound Suarez
New member
Re: Moderate Output Single Coils - What's out there?
They're ultimately calibrated for one another, and one is RW/RP for humbucking mode in the middle toggle position.
They're ultimately calibrated for one another, and one is RW/RP for humbucking mode in the middle toggle position.
Re: Moderate Output Single Coils - What's out there?
If you have something in mind, the Custom Shop can certainly make it for you.
If you have something in mind, the Custom Shop can certainly make it for you.
eclecticsynergy
New member
Progbusters
New member
Re: Moderate Output Single Coils - What's out there?
i got this, a neck in my Tele. I like it. pretty good. No longer made. Fender SCN
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Fender/...tratocaster-Pickup-Set-White-1273888004160.gc
oh wait, the Tele neck is too hot. haha
i got this, a neck in my Tele. I like it. pretty good. No longer made. Fender SCN
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Fender/...tratocaster-Pickup-Set-White-1273888004160.gc
oh wait, the Tele neck is too hot. haha
