Modernizing a Vintagy Strat

[BigDreamer]

I'm wanting to do two things to my JV strat:

1. Install locking tuners without making significant modifications. Currently the guitar is using Fender®/Gotoh® Vintage Style Tuning Machines .

2. Install a hardtail bridge without significant modifications. Currently the guitar is using an American Vintage Synchronized Tremolo .

The main things I'm concerned about are:

A. That the string spacing of then new bridge doesn't screw things up. (Does it need to be the same spacing as the above bridge?)

B. That the guitar can be properly reintonated after all is.

What quality components could get close to satisfying these goals?

Thanks guys.

 

[WhoFan]

Re: Modernizing a Vintagy Strat

let me understand... you want to fill in the wood routed out for a trem to make it a hardtail?

 

[jimijames]

Re: Modernizing a Vintagy Strat

Don't bother making it a hard tail, just get a bridge from callaham and 5 springs and adjust them so that they hold the bridge flat against the strat's surface, then throw away the tremolo bar - voila! Hardtail strat.

I don't know what kind of vintage tuners you're talking about, but if they're the kluson style, stew-mac sells an incredible locking set that are almost the exact same as the vintage ones in terms of weight and looks, and they're made by gotoh:

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/...s/Gotoh_Locking_Vintage_Oval_Knob_Tuners.html

Fin.

 

[WhoFan]

Re: Modernizing a Vintagy Strat

re-reading some of that adding locking tuners to a neck with vintage style fender tuners used to be able to be done easy... Gotoh used to make a set of replacement Vintage style tuners with locking posts... not sure if it's still out there... it never really caught on i think...

that being said the Vintage style tuner is quite like a locking tuner in many ways... they hold the string end down the center of the shaft and is bend around the split opening... it's quite a well designed tuner really as long as the gearing is solid... it was a great design and to think it was first done almost 60 years ago now!!!!

i really can't see you gaining much from turning that guitar into a hardtail... you would have to glue in some new guitar wood or matching alder wood into the trem route, add some ferrels... it would be a mess really...

in the end you may either just be est to keep the axe as is, or sell it and buy a hardtail strat like the Robert Cray model...

 

[phil_104]

Re: Modernizing a Vintagy Strat

Don't bother making it a hard tail, just get a bridge from callaham and 5 springs and adjust them so that they hold the bridge flat against the strat's surface, then throw away the tremolo bar - voila! Hardtail strat.

Fin.

+1. This is exactly what I did, and it is the same results as a hard tail.

 

[BigDreamer]

Re: Modernizing a Vintagy Strat

Alright I should probably clarify. What I was thinking in terms of the bridge was simply a drop in replacement for the strat bridge that is there now without the little wing where the bar fits in, without vintage string height adjusters, and of course without the need for springs and what not. Also, the bridge on there now is pretty ugly atm. I've snapped like four or five whammy bars back in the day, and after awhile just gave up on pulling out the little stub stuck in there. And it's a little grotty.

And as for what I would gain from the tuners, is really me not having to pre-cut strings, and make string changes much faster. Though I had originally thought it may add to tuning stability.

 

[phil_104]

Re: Modernizing a Vintagy Strat

Alright I should probably clarify. What I was thinking in terms of the bridge was simply a drop in replacement for the strat bridge that is there now without the little wing where the bar fits in, without vintage string height adjusters, and of course without the need for springs and what not. Also, the bridge on there now is pretty ugly atm. I've snapped like four or five whammy bars back in the day, and after awhile just gave up on pulling out the little stub stuck in there. And it's a little grotty.

And as for what I would gain from the tuners, is really me not having to pre-cut strings, and make string changes much faster. Though I had originally thought it may add to tuning stability.

If you just drop a hardtail bridge on there, there is a hole where the trem block was, and the hardtail will have no backing, making it pointless. Also, if you have a bridge without the little part where the hole for the bar is, a big hole in the body will be visible. If you want to do this, the only option is to take out the trem bridge, fill the trem cavity (which requires a lot of work), and repaint the body afterwards.

With that being said, if you think the one you have is ugly, just get a new trem bridge and block it off. It will be a lot less work and a lot less pain. You can also change the saddles, meaning if you have vintage ones on there, you can replace them with something more modern.

This will look better, be cheaper and less labour intensive.

 

[WhoFan]

Re: Modernizing a Vintagy Strat

Alright I should probably clarify. What I was thinking in terms of the bridge was simply a drop in replacement for the strat bridge that is there now without the little wing where the bar fits in, without vintage string height adjusters, and of course without the need for springs and what not. Also, the bridge on there now is pretty ugly atm. I've snapped like four or five whammy bars back in the day, and after awhile just gave up on pulling out the little stub stuck in there. And it's a little grotty.

And as for what I would gain from the tuners, is really me not having to pre-cut strings, and make string changes much faster. Though I had originally thought it may add to tuning stability.

you would most likely be best selling her and buying a modern style strat....

there was one replacement bridge out there that was "marketed" as turning a trem into a hardtail but i can't remember it's name... it was butt ugly....

but from the sounds of it you don't quite fully know what is involved in changing a trem to a hardtail, so you have come to the right place...

 

[Bludave]

Re: Modernizing a Vintagy Strat

Lust tighten up the claw, put all five springs on the bridge, make sure the bridge is resting on the body, or "block" it. Then put in a set of Sperzels. If you interest in the locking tuners is to help tuning stability you could also put in a graphite nut & saddles. This along with the locking tuners will improve the tuning stability a lot. As the others have said the only way to put a hard tail bridge on would be to fill the hole. If you are not prepared to do this then just block the bridge & leave the arm off.

 

[jimijames]

Re: Modernizing a Vintagy Strat

Also I personally think a strat with a blocked trem sounds much better than one with a hard tail - something about the steel block increases sustain and IMO sounds more expansive and rich. Other than what whofan said, I don't think anybody makes a replacement like what you're talking about, but that's because there isn't a market for it when blocking the existing trem works perfectly 99% of the time.

If your existing trem is crap, get a callaham unit for it. It's expensive but it will make a HUGE difference if you're using the standard MIM hardware (I take it JV means jimmy vaughan strat)

Also, if it looks 'grotty' like you say, just pull it off and clean it. If you're thinking about changing the bridge anyway, you're going to take it off at some point, so next time you change the strings clean it and oil it with some WD-40

I take it you don't like the vintage string height adjusters because they dig into your palm - just adjust them to where you like and grind down the part that sticks out with a dremel tool or grinder of some kind.

Really, I think you're making the whole bridge situation more complicated than it needs to be. If you have to have a hard tail, sell the guitar. The work to have converted will make it more feasible to just get a different guitar.

As for the tuners, did you click on the link? They're fully locking tuners and fit vintage fender specs...

 

[jerryjg]

Re: Modernizing a Vintagy Strat

Lust tighten up the claw, .

Couldnt agree more; "Lust" tighten up the claw!:1: Let me get this straight . You have the very scarce and desirable early JV starts (Japan Vintage) and you want to modify it? BAD IDEA!! Those starts are the closest you can come to vintage spec. Strats around . Stupid crazy good deals even now, but Ive noticed the activity on them is dropping off drastically as people become more aware about them at a surprising clip.

 

[WhoFan]

Re: Modernizing a Vintagy Strat

Couldnt agree more; "Lust" tighten up the claw!:1: Let me get this straight . You have the very scarce and desirable early JV starts (Japan Vintage) and you want to modify it? BAD IDEA!! Those starts are the closest you can come to vintage spec. Strats around . Stupid crazy good deals even now, but Ive noticed the activity on them is dropping off drastically as people become more aware about them at a surprising clip.

most of the time JV means it's a MIM Jimmy Vaughn model these days...

 

[WhoFan]

Re: Modernizing a Vintagy Strat

maybe upgrading the trem with a Wilkinson brand trem that fits the 6 holes but has modern style saddles, and adding the locking tuners would help you like this axe more... it's not a hardtail so just live with it as a strat with a trem even if you never use the trem... i have a ton of strats and only really use teh trem on a few of them...

one of the reasons i love the American Standards and Deluxes is i'm more of modern strat guy myself... I like locking tuners, in some case just for the ease of restringing faster... i like modern tall frets with the flatter radius, i like 22 frets, i like more narrow string spacing of the American Standard and other modern bridges... Fender used to offer the American Standard strat in Hardtail and i bought a bunch of those bridges for my home made guitars since i like it... nice bridge...

 

[BigDreamer]

Re: Modernizing a Vintagy Strat

Ya sorry it is a Jimmie Vaughan strat.

I am thinking strongly about the tuners in that link, they look like a good solution.

And ya, I wasn't really thinking of the physicality of the bridge situation. I just thought I had heard about those drop in ones, and thought that was a more desirable option that blocking it. But, I think I will just block it, and let her be. Thanks guys.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Modernizing a Vintagy Strat

You can't really covert a tremolo to a hardtail w/o filling the trem route back in with wood but there are a few options...blocking the tremolo is the easiest thing to do, getting a Tremol-no is another options, simply tightening the claw all the way in and using 5 stiff springs is an option as well.

While we're at it, let me ask...why do you want locking keys if you're not going to use the tremolo??

 

[super rad stuff]

Re: Modernizing a Vintagy Strat

While we're at it, let me ask...why do you want locking keys if you're not going to use the tremolo??

dood my sg goes outta tune constantly:dunno:

 

[WhoFan]

Re: Modernizing a Vintagy Strat

dood my sg goes outta tune constantly:dunno:

so does my Les Paul... but locking tuners will not help... it's other issues

 

[WhoFan]

Re: Modernizing a Vintagy Strat

Ya sorry it is a Jimmie Vaughan strat.

I am thinking strongly about the tuners in that link, they look like a good solution.

And ya, I wasn't really thinking of the physicality of the bridge situation. I just thought I had heard about those drop in ones, and thought that was a more desirable option that blocking it. But, I think I will just block it, and let her be. Thanks guys.

good idea... whatever you do try and be able to return the guitar to stock in case you re-sale it oneday... new saddles and tuners are not that big of a deal but keep the original parts to remount...

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: Modernizing a Vintagy Strat

dood my sg goes outta tune constantly:dunno:

as long as the tuners aren't visibly slipping, I'd bet that it's the nut or saddles.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Modernizing a Vintagy Strat

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that you don't replace the trem UNLESS you go Callaham. The bridge on the JV is what Fender uses on their CS vintage style guitars. Additionally I think blocking the trem will give you the sound and rigidity you are looking for.

Luke