Most pick responsive tubes ?

Dr.Mavashi

Dr.Mavashi

neonderthalotonalogist
Does such a thing exists ? My main amp is Laney GH50L, kids these days wont consider it a high gain amp, but it does late 80s early 90s metal with out any pedals, the 1 1/2 channel allows you to really play around with different granularities of break up. So, now I have classic JJ's set for Laney's E34Ls, and ECC83s. I am fairly happy with it, but i wish i can have just a bit more responsiveness to pick dynamics, particularly on pick harmonics, i would like to have just a tiny bit less break up on double stops, a bit more of note separation on them, and a bit more saturation and pop when dig with the pick for a pick harmonic.
 
You could try brighter and higher headroom tubes like Tung Sol 12AX7's. But they're not going to make a HUGE difference. They'll make the amp livelier to an extent, but it's still going to sound like a GH50L, just brighter and livelier. Also, avoid Tung Sols in cathode follower positions. I'd use Shuguangs in there. The usual tube for the PI position that people like for being particularly loud and uncompressed is the Sovtek 12AX7LPS. And I'd try louder, brighter, more headroom power tubes like JJ KT77's or EH 6CA7's. JJ E34L's are not as compressed and squishy as other EL34's, but you can get something better for what you want, IMO.

That's as far as CP tubes. I know nothing about NOS. But yeah, JJ ECC83S's are well known for being dark and compressed compared to pretty much everything else out there, LOL.
 
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I would say the easiest path to touch sensitivity would be to put some overdrive or boost in front of the amp. You will get a more dramatic change for around the same amount of money. You can control how dramatic the effect is and of course, you can use it with other amps and setups.

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Honestly, yeah. A pedal would make a lot more difference than swapping tubes.

But tube rolling is also fun.

Personally, my preferred preamp cocktail is a Sovtek LPS in the PI, and all Chinese in all other positions, LOL. But if you want a bit more liveliness, pick attack, and responsiveness, I recommend the Tung Sol 12AX7 in V1. I generally prefer Russian tubes in the power section, as I prefer their sonic signature there. Particularly, EHX or Sovteks, but I do like bright, tight, agressive, and open power tubes, personally.

But keep in mind, the difference is not going to be night and day either. You don't swap tubes to transform an amp. You swap tubes to fine-tune an amp that you already like.

I've never experimented with lower gain tubes in my amps. People sometimes use 5751's or 12AT7's to lower the gain of certain amps. I've honestly never considered doing that. If you want less gain, just lower your gain, LOL. There is also an impedance (or resistance, forget the right term here) mismatch by swapping some tube types, so the amp is obviously not going to behave as designed if it was meant for 12AX7's.

People mention it makes their amps have more "headroom" this way, but not really. Headroom is how loud something can go without distorting. You're certainly not going to add any more volume to an amp this way. Just less gain.
 
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IME one thing that affected pick response like you're saying was the bias. Another was the rectifier. After that, it was the design of the amp and how hot it ran. Could be other aspects that have a bigger effect. I'm not a builder or repairman but a user.
 
GuitarStv said:
You don't need new tubes, turn the gain down.
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Preamp gain certainly affects dynamics, so that is an easy start. A really hot signal hitting the input of the amp is another source of compression, so high output pickups can rob dynamics, too (but that is why many people like them).
 
I’m not convinced a tube change unless it’s a lower gain tube is going to do that. It doesn’t fundamentally change the voicing or gain structure of the amp. I wanted and got more pick and note definition out of my JVM, but it already had a decent amount of both so I did little more than change a couple of cap/resistor values and pair it with the best speakers for the job. If you’re after something as defined under a ton of as a Fryette Pitbull, anything else is going to come up short.
 
There are no hard fast rules. The design of the preamp can make a different tube respond differently in different amps. Example is my PRS amps really like JJ's in the preamp but in my old Carvin X 50 head a set of JJ's will instantly turn that amp into a soulless toneless mess. My most consistent tubes in current production for improving dynamics have been the new Tung Sols and the new Mullards but they don't play nice in some amps. Best thing is to try some different pre amp tubes in V 1 and V2 on your particular amp and see what works. Those 2 slots will make the most dramatic difference in most amps. Power tubes can also make a difference but not as much most times as pre amp tubes. Good luck and have fun!
 
Ascension said:
There are no hard fast rules. The design of the preamp can make a different tube respond differently in different amps. Example is my PRS amps really like JJ's in the preamp but in my old Carvin X 50 head a set of JJ's will instantly turn that amp into a soulless toneless mess. My most consistent tubes in current production for improving dynamics have been the new Tung Sols and the new Mullards but they don't play nice in some amps. Best thing is to try some different pre amp tubes in V 1 and V2 on your particular amp and see what works. Those 2 slots will make the most dramatic difference in most amps. Power tubes can also make a difference but not as much most times as pre amp tubes. Good luck and have fun!
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Power tubes make a difference when you turn it up. E34Ls hold everything together the best for me. KT77s a close second. Otherwise, A/B recordings reveal not a lot of difference with the preamp in V1 with the exception of JJs not being very good with even chinese 12AX7s being better, the 5751 reigning in the preamp gain and the Russian 7025 being perfect because it’s got the exact amount of gain I want but is dead quiet if I’m not playing.

As far as actual timbre change, it’s almost imperceptible.
 
Dynamics, pick attack, and harmonics is certainly much more of a chore for the V1 preamp tube rather than power tubes if your amp is distorted. Barely any amp these days rely on power tube distortion. Maybe some coloration or slight hints of compression, but V1 is going to have a much more immediate role in this because it's the first thing dynamic, pick attack, and harmonics hit in an amp. By the time the signal hits the poweramp, in most modern amps, it's already pretty compressed/clipped from going through all the other preamp tube stages.

And I'm using the term "modern" loosely. What year was the 2203 introduced? IMO, I'd say those are the first where my statement starts applying, and I doubt this Laney is any lower gain than that.
 
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Rex_Rocker said:
Dynamics, pick attack, and harmonics is certainly much more of a chore for the V1 preamp tube rather than power tubes if your amp is distorted. Barely any amp these days rely on power tube distortion. Maybe some coloration or slight hints of compression, but V1 is going to have a much more immediate role in this because it's the first thing dynamic, pick attack, and harmonics hit in an amp. By the time the signal hits the poweramp, in most modern amps, it's already pretty compressed/clipped from going through all the other preamp tube stages.
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I know. That’s why I said power tube difference is more noticeable in the way your sound holds together at high volume. Mine wouldn’t benefit for distorting the power tubes too much.
 
El Dunco said:
I know. That’s why I said power tube difference is more noticeable in the way your sound holds together at high volume. Mine wouldn’t benefit for distorting the power tubes too much.
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Oh, I wasn't directly addressing your statement. Just joining the whole power tube debate. :D

On my own post, I recommended brighter, cleaner, and broader power tubes simply because pick attack and harmonics are usually in the upper register, and hearing more detail in there, might make it pop more, but not really because there is more. Just kinda makes it more apparent.

Kinda silly and very subjective, I know, but hey, tube rolling is supposed to be fun and almost placebo-ish to an extent. :D
 
That is true. The most wideband, clean powertubes will be best for it. Someone suggested putting KT-88s in my recto but I see no point when they won’t be running at full power without different transformers.
 
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In my mind, after reading the OP, I'd recommend a pickup swap before changing tubes.

Like securb said, a pedal may be the golden ticket..

And if I was going to change tubes, I'd start with the preamp V1, not a power tube.

Then I'd swap the whole amp, since we are talking articulation and harmonics and not tonal character.

Some amps are great at being tight and harmonically rich and some amps are just not. I'm not familiar with that Laney to have any opinion on it.
 
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80's_Thrash_Metal said:
Some amps are great at being tight and harmonically rich and some amps are just not. I'm not familiar with that Laney to have any opinion on it.
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More like Lazey AMIRITE! Wabba-wabba!

My loud heads break down like this.

JVM is tight with great pick and note definition.

Mesa Dual Rec is big and huge sounding

Randall prototype is almost too tight if there is such a thing (has that immediate, kind of cold response that makes it so good for extreme metal.)

What goes on tape is usually a combo of 2 to 3 of those.

Active pickups generally tighten things up a bit and bring out pick attack because there’s a preamp happening which if geared for heavier styles trims some of the wobbly lows and bumps the hi-mids already (depends on what kind). If it isn’t happening, you’re going to want a different amp.
 
Depends on the active pickup too. The EMG 85 has a VERY laid-back attack. Too much for my taste.

And passive PAF's have A LOT of attack for Metal. Like... A LOT. I like it, but they get almost single-coil-y scratchy if you're not careful and don't run them through a boost that sorta smooths them out a bit.

AFAIK, the Laney GH series are kinda sorta like a beefed up higher-gain 800 to an extent.
 
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