Multi Effects vs Pedal age old question.

[mantis]

Re: Multi Effects vs Pedal age old question.

Age old question? Age old answer: Use what works for you by whichever criteria you use to discern that (tone, convenience, weight, cost, flexibility, whatever) None of it matters, you can only get it right, even if you decide it isn't right after you get it. We all approach the gig differently and make adjustments as we go along, gain experience or make new distinctions. Even on a budget you never have to make a finite choice. Speaking for myself, I will always go without, save, sell, barter, work overtime, get up early, whatever it takes to get the gear I wanted. It's a very positive and powerful thing and my gear tends to be long-term. I protect myself from letting small compromises add up and diminish my tonal perception and vision overtime. Have fun brother. RG

I love it man. I basically like the gear more then actually playing LOL. I so love finding different tones and searching for the RIGHT amp or effects. It's the chase or Hunt I love. Searching , learning , demoing etc. Once the Kill happens I'm on to the next Hunt.
I'm honestly very happy with the Boss GT-100 but I always think about improving on what it can do and finding something that can do everything it can do just better. So far nothing I have tried or learned about is as complete as the GT-100 is. Everything else you need to add other stuff to it to compare to the GT-100.
I actually emailed Boss to make a higher end Effects only Boss Waza Craft level product as I feel many would buy it who own killer amps and just want effects and ease of use, control over their amp etc. Who really doesn't want that?
Buying pedals is very fun and exciting but IMO is very costly and sloppy.

 

[some_dude]

Re: Multi Effects vs Pedal age old question.

Does your amp not have an effects Loop? You know the G system can be wired in the 4 cable method. This way you can place your effects exactly in your signal chain as you want.
From what I understand the G system is an effects only Processor which is what I would like to have and it's supposed to be better then the GT-100 but I gotta do a side by side to see if that is true for me.

The G-System is broken up into two blocks.

Block 1 goes in front of your preamp and consists of filter (wah), compressor, and loops 1 to 4.

Block 2 goes in your effects loop and consists of Boost, Modulation, Pitch Shifting, Delay, Reverb and EQ.

You have limited ability to control routing with the G-System... basically a choice of serial routing (your delay feeds into the reverb) or parallel routing (your signal is split, delay and reverb are applied separately before being summed back together).

You don't have the ability to move effects around. For instance, you can't re-order within a block (i.e., putting chorus after delay) or move effects between blocks (i.e., putting modulation before the preamp).

What you can do is put a modulation pedal in one of the G-System's loops. It's the only way to really get around that limitation.

 

[mantis]

Re: Multi Effects vs Pedal age old question.

The G-System is broken up into two blocks.

Block 1 goes in front of your preamp and consists of filter (wah), compressor, and loops 1 to 4.

Block 2 goes in your effects loop and consists of Boost, Modulation, Pitch Shifting, Delay, Reverb and EQ.

You have limited ability to control routing with the G-System... basically a choice of serial routing (your delay feeds into the reverb) or parallel routing (your signal is split, delay and reverb are applied separately before being summed back together).

You don't have the ability to move effects around. For instance, you can't re-order within a block (i.e., putting chorus after delay) or move effects between blocks (i.e., putting modulation before the preamp).

What you can do is put a modulation pedal in one of the G-System's loops. It's the only way to really get around that limitation.

This is why i wrote Boss a letter to build an even better quality GT effects processor. It has NO limits like this. The GT-100 is a perfect all in one Floor controller. I just want the Modeling removed and have Boss concentrate on making the best floor effects processor they can.
In my strong opinion, Boss makes some of the worlds best pedals bar none. Delay , really who makes it better then Boss? I have tried a few different brands and I was always disappointed and returned or sold them and got a Boss. Chorus I feel they rule this market. Everyone else falls behind. When Boss was making the Double pedals like the DD-20 and the CE-20 I feel they where the best in the business period. I can get that level of flexibility and tone quality out of the GT-100.

I'll be straight up here with what I don't like about the GT-100
1) General setting for everything. Listen Boss Pedals don't go from 0 to 100. They go from 0 to 10. Why on earth did you make the adjustments go from 0-100? Makes no sense at all.
2) Send and Return levels- Ok I get it you want the ability to set these levels to match your effects loop and the input levels going into the front of your amp. But 0-200? Come on how the hell is someone suppose to figure out what is the right settings for their amps without years of trial and error like I have had invested in it?
3) Global output level - on the front of the GT-100 is a output level , WHY? This is just another stupid adjustment that makes it even harder to get right. You don't need this many adjustments.
4) Global EQ- again why? The GT has the ability to put a EQ pedal in the effects chain anywhere you want it. Why do you need an overall EQ setting? This should be removed as it's just another stupid thing to color your sound and get it wrong. I spent time on the phone with Boss getting this thing as transparent as possible. I hate that.
5) Analog to Digital to Analog Ok I get it to a point but I feel the front end should be completely analog.So from Guitar input to all effects in front of your amp should ALL be analog. This will increase the level of sonic perfection and be much more like pedals that Boss makes so well anyway. I'm sure they can build a GT with this ability . I don't care what it costs , figure it out and build it right.
6) Amp Control - Gotta be the stupidest decision on the planet. How many 2 channel amps are out there? How many 3 channel amps are out there? How many 2 channel amps with a Lead boost are out there? I could go on and on and on about this. When you build a floor controller , it NEEDS to be able to control ALL things of ones amp that from the factory can do from the factory provided footswitch. Super easy fix BOSS just remove the stupid very bad idea mono amp control out and put a stereo out. This will give people the ability to have more control over like turning on and off reverb in the amp or switching to the boost or lead channel of an amp, switch to the 3rd channel of a 3 channel amp etc etc etc. Boss did get one thing right with the control out, they provided Midi which today many good quality heads have it so this becomes a mute point for those who have Midi on their amps. But for people who don't , you need more control over whats there. I would even suggest putting a mono and 2 stereo amp control outs on the new model.
Then provide the ability to buy as an option cables that can combine these features for amps that have 4 controls on the factory footswitches. Get me here?
7) Sound quality it's damn good now and the best overall sounding Boss GT to date. They did a fantastic job retaining your amps tone with the best dynamics ever. You don't squash your dynamics as much as the GT8 and GT10 did. It's still not exactly as dynamic as your amp without it but it's damn close and almost except able but at this price point , it's a home run. For a higher end unit I would like this addressed and have it completely transparent. If others brands can do it, Boss should be able to do it as good if not better as they have been in the game longer then just about everyone else.

This could actually sound like I hate the GT-100, I don't I just want a better higher priced higher quality go Waza if thats the code for your highest end products and ge me what I know I want and I'm sure plenty of other guitar player who actually care about their tone would want. Build it please!!!!

 

[Lysergene]

Re: Multi Effects vs Pedal age old question.

Does your amp not have an effects Loop? You know the G system can be wired in the 4 cable method. This way you can place your effects exactly in your signal chain as you want.
From what I understand the G system is an effects only Processor which is what I would like to have and it's supposed to be better then the GT-100 but I gotta do a side by side to see if that is true for me.

I don't think you can put external effects anywhere you want in the signal chain with the G System. I think there are specific 'slots'. That was one of the reasons I didn't go for one. I do like to chain effects in unorthodox ways though. They do sound awesome.

 

[Lysergene]

Re: Multi Effects vs Pedal age old question.

This is why i wrote Boss a letter to build an even better quality GT effects processor. It has NO limits like this. The GT-100 is a perfect all in one Floor controller. I just want the Modeling removed and have Boss concentrate on making the best floor effects processor they can.
In my strong opinion, Boss makes some of the worlds best pedals bar none. Delay , really who makes it better then Boss? I have tried a few different brands and I was always disappointed and returned or sold them and got a Boss. Chorus I feel they rule this market. Everyone else falls behind. When Boss was making the Double pedals like the DD-20 and the CE-20 I feel they where the best in the business period. I can get that level of flexibility and tone quality out of the GT-100.

I'll be straight up here with what I don't like about the GT-100
1) General setting for everything. Listen Boss Pedals don't go from 0 to 100. They go from 0 to 10. Why on earth did you make the adjustments go from 0-100? Makes no sense at all.
2) Send and Return levels- Ok I get it you want the ability to set these levels to match your effects loop and the input levels going into the front of your amp. But 0-200? Come on how the hell is someone suppose to figure out what is the right settings for their amps without years of trial and error like I have had invested in it?
3) Global output level - on the front of the GT-100 is a output level , WHY? This is just another stupid adjustment that makes it even harder to get right. You don't need this many adjustments.
4) Global EQ- again why? The GT has the ability to put a EQ pedal in the effects chain anywhere you want it. Why do you need an overall EQ setting? This should be removed as it's just another stupid thing to color your sound and get it wrong. I spent time on the phone with Boss getting this thing as transparent as possible. I hate that.
5) Analog to Digital to Analog Ok I get it to a point but I feel the front end should be completely analog.So from Guitar input to all effects in front of your amp should ALL be analog. This will increase the level of sonic perfection and be much more like pedals that Boss makes so well anyway. I'm sure they can build a GT with this ability . I don't care what it costs , figure it out and build it right.
6) Amp Control - Gotta be the stupidest decision on the planet. How many 2 channel amps are out there? How many 3 channel amps are out there? How many 2 channel amps with a Lead boost are out there? I could go on and on and on about this. When you build a floor controller , it NEEDS to be able to control ALL things of ones amp that from the factory can do from the factory provided footswitch. Super easy fix BOSS just remove the stupid very bad idea mono amp control out and put a stereo out. This will give people the ability to have more control over like turning on and off reverb in the amp or switching to the boost or lead channel of an amp, switch to the 3rd channel of a 3 channel amp etc etc etc. Boss did get one thing right with the control out, they provided Midi which today many good quality heads have it so this becomes a mute point for those who have Midi on their amps. But for people who don't , you need more control over whats there. I would even suggest putting a mono and 2 stereo amp control outs on the new model.
Then provide the ability to buy as an option cables that can combine these features for amps that have 4 controls on the factory footswitches. Get me here?
7) Sound quality it's damn good now and the best overall sounding Boss GT to date. They did a fantastic job retaining your amps tone with the best dynamics ever. You don't squash your dynamics as much as the GT8 and GT10 did. It's still not exactly as dynamic as your amp without it but it's damn close and almost except able but at this price point , it's a home run. For a higher end unit I would like this addressed and have it completely transparent. If others brands can do it, Boss should be able to do it as good if not better as they have been in the game longer then just about everyone else.

This could actually sound like I hate the GT-100, I don't I just want a better higher priced higher quality go Waza if thats the code for your highest end products and ge me what I know I want and I'm sure plenty of other guitar player who actually care about their tone would want. Build it please!!!!

1) If this is a problem for you then just go in increments of ten. Pedals have pots which - technically speaking - have an almost infinite number of settings (unless they literally 'click' ten times and jump to the next sound).

2) Same as above really. I sometimes used the expression pedal to go from low to high gain. Having 200 steps instead of ten means that I could do that gain stuff gradually, rather than in ten (obvious) steps.

3) I used the global output level all the time on stage, when I couldn't get to my amp.

4) Don't use it then. I used to use it to control the bottom end depending on the sound on stage.

5) All analog with no modelling. Do you know what COSM means? Are all Boss pedals not modeling units? There certainly wasn't a tape or a spring reverb in my RE-20 delay/reverb pedal. How big and heavy do you want it to be?

6) Get an amp with MIDI

7) The price yes. This is the main selling point for Boss. If they asked any more for their units they would be in TC Electronics territory.... I'd just get a TC.


Just buy an Axe FX and stop expecting Boss to build one. Boss are Roland so they make excellent sounds - particularly chorus and other modulation/delay effects. Their GT range is/was based on the effects that are included with the Roland guitar synths. Maybe you could try one if those too....?

 

[Lysergene]

Re: Multi Effects vs Pedal age old question.

I've owned both the Gt-10 and GT-100 and did some side by side comparisons between the 2.
The GT-10 was mote "digital" Sounding and the GT-100 is more ' Analog with better response and retains more of your amps natural tone the the GT-10 did. What I found hard was setting up the Gt-100 from the Gt-10 as it is much harder to do until you get to know it better.
The Distortion and OD type effects on the GT-10 where not that good. The GT-100 however does a great job. I have compared the GT-100's Tube screamer to an actual Ibanez 808 Tube Screamer which I also own and I was shocked how good the GT-100 does that sound with dynamics. It really close to the point if you close your eyes you don't know which one is on. Thats what the GT-100 does way better then the GT-10.
I don't use any modeling amps cab's or what nots as I like my amps sound so I use the GT-100 as a control and effects only processor.

I'm glad to hear they are paying a little more attention to the distortion/amp models. That was a downfall for me with the GT-10.

 

[devastone]

Re: Multi Effects vs Pedal age old question.

I agree with Lysergene's points.

0 - 200 (or 100, whatever) steps gives the user much more resolution/control, if it is a problem, just ignore the least 0.

I love the Output Level Control, makes it really quick to make volume adjustments on the fly without digging into menus.

Global EQ, same thing, it's so you don't have to dig into your individual patches to adjust for different rooms, I rarely use it, but I think it is a great tool to have available, if you don't use it, just ignore it.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Boss is never going to make a multi-fx with an analog section. The only one I know of is the TC Nova System that has an analog drive section, but the downfall of that box is that it can only be used in front of an amp or in the loop, can't do the 4CM with it, a big mistake on that unit IMHO, but then it would probably compete with the G-System at < 1/2 the cost. Besides, where would you draw the line on what effects are what? Do you want an analog phaser? If so, it will probably have to be locked in place in the chain, you wouldn't be able to move it. Not to mention every time you went from a digital to analog effect would be another Digital>Analog>Digital conversion.

I do agree that it would be nice if the amp control used a TRS jack that gave control over at least 2 amp parameters.

 

[devastone]

Re: Multi Effects vs Pedal age old question.

Oh yeah, if you want a top o' the line effects only multi effects unit I would suggest checking out the Fractal FX8 - http://www.fractalaudio.com/p-fx8-multieffects-pedalboard.php

 

[Mincer]

Re: Multi Effects vs Pedal age old question.

I use a Fractal AX8 now. I see no need to go back to pedals. Some people love pedals- that's cool. They are fun to collect, and you are not out too much money every time you buy one. I understand that approach, since I did it for years. I don't particularly like reconfiguring a heavy pedalboard, or figuring out which patch cable is shorting out at the gig, though (it always breaks at the gig). While I still plug in pedals now and then, I much happier with my smaller, more versatile rig.

 

[BriGuy1968]

Multi Effects vs Pedal age old question.

I'm going to +2 here with lysergene and devastone on the volume settings. When you have a knob you can twist they write 1-10 on there for space consideration. If you only had 1-10 available on a mult-effect unit you would have only 10 settings... what if you're looking for 7.5? A higher numbering system allows you more control. If you have a max of 100, you essentially have 10 settings in between each number 0-10. If it's 200, you have 20 settings in between. The math is pretty easy, so it shouldn't be a big deal. My Zoom uses 0-150... same concept, and it works quite easily.

As for the unwanted things like master volume and global EQ, as has been stated, don't use them. Set it and forget it. I never mind if my gear has stuff I don't use, but it sucks if I want a feature that ISN'T there.


[emoji450] Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk [emoji441]

 

[devastone]

Re: Multi Effects vs Pedal age old question.

I never mind if my gear has stuff I don't use, but it sucks if I want a feature that ISN'T there. [emoji441]

Amen! I would say the same for amp models, if you like what the GT100 does but just want the effects, just turn off the amp models. It's not like the effects would be better in a unit without amp models.

 

[Hank-]

Re: Multi Effects vs Pedal age old question.

(My writing spirit has awakened within, beware a giant writeup awaits.)


Personally speaking, I'm not a big fan of the Waza concept. I can see it working for reissuing discontinued pedals but lately its been stretched to the tuner pedal as well. Boss modified Boss pedals introduced at higher markup, hmmn, don't care anymore. They could have just revised the current boards & continued with a little price increase, having it assembled in Japan is cool but if the parts are made in China then why bother with a location change? Their Waza amp is crazy expensive, a Waza GT mass produced would be around crazy expensive i think as well. I have a feeling they might go the Waza route with a future GT though & probably involve their MDP tech to a wider extent.

Anyways, coming to my own experience using multis. I'm no longer a fan of deep menus ever since i got the T21 character series experience. I have had the Gt10 since 2011 or 2012, using it in 4CM is fun & the A-D-A process isn't terrible, but the feel is some what fixed to certain sensitivity unlike plugging straight into the amp from the guitar. This is more noticable to me lately since I haven't been using it regularly, not a fan of the 4CM snake on floor even with pedals btw. The headphone output is the most horrid sounding I've come across ever. Best way to use it for headphones is to buy a mixer and use that for listening to it, the headphone out has some eq setting hard coded to it, even plugging a plug in there activates it globally on main outputs. Yuck!

The best feature is the control it provides over functions of the effects & free routing of the effects order. The two noise gates & FX loop don't utilize precious fx blocks. The reverbs I don't like much at all, the hall is the only one i like. When i purchased this unit, my goal was to have minimum stuff scattered on the floor with extensive control, and it had to sound good. At that time I didn't have drive pedals around I think but already had a analog delay & wah, so the gt10 sounded really good & the idea worked. Two years with it all i was using it for was a dual series delay setting, some reverb, a overdrive or boost here and there and maybe a bit of chorus or trem & the momentary flange effect control function. Total patches were 8 that i used with my amp, 4 of those were using the internal preamps in place of my amp's preamp. That was about it. In a direct to PA function, also pretty much the same order,nothing extraordinary fx usage.

So i have started using it way less ever since i got a joyo clone of the t21 pedals. The feel is way better & using it with my pedals is relatively simple. I've tried using the amp sim pedals in the loop of the gt10 but it takes away the feel entirely which is the best part of these pedals. Using it front of the gt works but at that point its a large footprint & unnecessary waste.

Recently I picked up a Zoom G1on for headphone practice & drum/looper fun. Its got the same carry over of amps from the g3/5 but the dsp limit is different, not to mention is plastic body with a thin metal bottom plate. The amp models in it react to volume knob change surprisingly good . But within the first week of owning it i found my tweaking ocd habit had kicked in, so now i use the joyo sound pedals into it, have three reverbs chained at low settings for a realistic amp in room effect while using earphones, its got some unique reverb types that can work amazingly for headphones but not translate to a mixer/pa directly, well i could set it for that differently but I didn't get it for that.

So nowadays at home my playing consists of the g1on + actone or american sound joyo pedal through samsung white colored mic+phones thingy thats included with their j series smartphones. For playing outdoors i carry a phaser, od, british sound & flashback delay pedal with a DI box & an old 35w SS practice amp i got as my first amp to monitor myself if needed, the pedals go in a 15" laptop carry case on a wooden ply board i cut to size its super easy to carry & light. I will be getting the T21 PE60 oneday but not anytime soon. My ideal setup would be the T21 FR5 into the PE60 but for now I want a little variety, eventually though its happening lol

With MFX units, I strongly would prefer having a global eq & output level available on a multi unit that I would be using direct to PA or with headphones. Simply because adjusting the patch eq for all patches with different pa systems or headphones is a nightmare & big waste of time. I even would see it useful for using the unit with different amps supplied by the place for backline & i can't bring mine along for various daily life related issues(train/bus travel, weight, size, climbing stairs, etc. IOW a non roadie support life lol)

 

[Lysergene]

Re: Multi Effects vs Pedal age old question.

Yeah the GT-10 reverbs are limited. Not the best unit to base a suspicion of all multi FX on. The Fractal software does away with deep menus, it's like a Lego game attached to a very powerful machine. I'm a multi geek really, but totally enjoy individual pedals too. Using the Axe and a FCB1010 feels odd. But sounds decent.

 

[mantis]

Re: Multi Effects vs Pedal age old question.

1) If this is a problem for you then just go in increments of ten. Pedals have pots which - technically speaking - have an almost infinite number of settings (unless they literally 'click' ten times and jump to the next sound).

2) Same as above really. I sometimes used the expression pedal to go from low to high gain. Having 200 steps instead of ten means that I could do that gain stuff gradually, rather than in ten (obvious) steps.

3) I used the global output level all the time on stage, when I couldn't get to my amp.

4) Don't use it then. I used to use it to control the bottom end depending on the sound on stage.

5) All analog with no modelling. Do you know what COSM means? Are all Boss pedals not modeling units? There certainly wasn't a tape or a spring reverb in my RE-20 delay/reverb pedal. How big and heavy do you want it to be?

6) Get an amp with MIDI

7) The price yes. This is the main selling point for Boss. If they asked any more for their units they would be in TC Electronics territory.... I'd just get a TC.


Just buy an Axe FX and stop expecting Boss to build one. Boss are Roland so they make excellent sounds - particularly chorus and other modulation/delay effects. Their GT range is/was based on the effects that are included with the Roland guitar synths. Maybe you could try one if those too....?

Thank you for your input. It's a dream of mine I know will never come true. I'm not holding my breath or anything. Again I'm not unhappy with the Gt-100 a I feel it's the best GT ever by a long shot. The GT-10 was nice but it really killed your amps tone. I A-B it so many times I got it out and went back to pedals. It sat and collected dust for a While. It only went back in when I was sick and tired of using pedals.

With setting up the GT-100 Guitar input level some dude on youtube made this patch to test your input of your guitar and then give the ability to set it so the GT wasn't clipping. I thought this was awesome as I was to hot on many of my guitars and never knew what that digital sounding Clipping was, once I learned that my sound improved a lot.
My issue with the Send and return is how to test it. So I want the front of my amp to see the same level output just like if I was using pedals. I want the front of my amp or preamp if you will to have all it's dynamics and be crushed by a to hot input or the other way to light and not get the drive out of the front. Then in the effects loop the return to the amp hit the amp the same way as if I had effects in the loop and it was getting hit by the preamp out and then to the amp. I have played around with the levels but honestly there is no way to test this unless I keep switching between pedals and back to the GT. I wish someone came up with a test patch to adjust these levels. Once they are set, thats it.

I use the expression pedal as a Volume pedal so I can practice at home without ripping my face off.

All those other Processors I looked into are not as complete as the GT. I would however like to demo them.

 

[mantis]

Re: Multi Effects vs Pedal age old question.

Oh yeah, if you want a top o' the line effects only multi effects unit I would suggest checking out the Fractal FX8 - http://www.fractalaudio.com/p-fx8-multieffects-pedalboard.php

I watched this video a few times and really would love to demo one. Thanks man.

 

[mantis]

Re: Multi Effects vs Pedal age old question.

I'm glad to hear they are paying a little more attention to the distortion/amp models. That was a downfall for me with the GT-10.

It's a huge improvement in the OD and Distortions. You would have to A B them like I did but you would know right away. They are actually very usable.

 

[mantis]

Re: Multi Effects vs Pedal age old question.

Amen! I would say the same for amp models, if you like what the GT100 does but just want the effects, just turn off the amp models. It's not like the effects would be better in a unit without amp models.

My thinking was to forget amp modeling all together. I think Boss is horrible at it. Instead of taking the time for Research and development, I would put that into improving on the GT without them. This is where I was thinking it would be better without them.
No I don't use any of the Modeling amps Cab's mic's stuff at all. They are all turned off and I use the Gt as a effects processor, Amp control and volume pedal.

 

[mantis]

Re: Multi Effects vs Pedal age old question.

(My writing spirit has awakened within, beware a giant writeup awaits.)


Personally speaking, I'm not a big fan of the Waza concept. I can see it working for reissuing discontinued pedals but lately its been stretched to the tuner pedal as well. Boss modified Boss pedals introduced at higher markup, hmmn, don't care anymore. They could have just revised the current boards & continued with a little price increase, having it assembled in Japan is cool but if the parts are made in China then why bother with a location change? Their Waza amp is crazy expensive, a Waza GT mass produced would be around crazy expensive i think as well. I have a feeling they might go the Waza route with a future GT though & probably involve their MDP tech to a wider extent.

Anyways, coming to my own experience using multis. I'm no longer a fan of deep menus ever since i got the T21 character series experience. I have had the Gt10 since 2011 or 2012, using it in 4CM is fun & the A-D-A process isn't terrible, but the feel is some what fixed to certain sensitivity unlike plugging straight into the amp from the guitar. This is more noticable to me lately since I haven't been using it regularly, not a fan of the 4CM snake on floor even with pedals btw. The headphone output is the most horrid sounding I've come across ever. Best way to use it for headphones is to buy a mixer and use that for listening to it, the headphone out has some eq setting hard coded to it, even plugging a plug in there activates it globally on main outputs. Yuck!

The best feature is the control it provides over functions of the effects & free routing of the effects order. The two noise gates & FX loop don't utilize precious fx blocks. The reverbs I don't like much at all, the hall is the only one i like. When i purchased this unit, my goal was to have minimum stuff scattered on the floor with extensive control, and it had to sound good. At that time I didn't have drive pedals around I think but already had a analog delay & wah, so the gt10 sounded really good & the idea worked. Two years with it all i was using it for was a dual series delay setting, some reverb, a overdrive or boost here and there and maybe a bit of chorus or trem & the momentary flange effect control function. Total patches were 8 that i used with my amp, 4 of those were using the internal preamps in place of my amp's preamp. That was about it. In a direct to PA function, also pretty much the same order,nothing extraordinary fx usage.

So i have started using it way less ever since i got a joyo clone of the t21 pedals. The feel is way better & using it with my pedals is relatively simple. I've tried using the amp sim pedals in the loop of the gt10 but it takes away the feel entirely which is the best part of these pedals. Using it front of the gt works but at that point its a large footprint & unnecessary waste.

Recently I picked up a Zoom G1on for headphone practice & drum/looper fun. Its got the same carry over of amps from the g3/5 but the dsp limit is different, not to mention is plastic body with a thin metal bottom plate. The amp models in it react to volume knob change surprisingly good . But within the first week of owning it i found my tweaking ocd habit had kicked in, so now i use the joyo sound pedals into it, have three reverbs chained at low settings for a realistic amp in room effect while using earphones, its got some unique reverb types that can work amazingly for headphones but not translate to a mixer/pa directly, well i could set it for that differently but I didn't get it for that.

So nowadays at home my playing consists of the g1on + actone or american sound joyo pedal through samsung white colored mic+phones thingy thats included with their j series smartphones. For playing outdoors i carry a phaser, od, british sound & flashback delay pedal with a DI box & an old 35w SS practice amp i got as my first amp to monitor myself if needed, the pedals go in a 15" laptop carry case on a wooden ply board i cut to size its super easy to carry & light. I will be getting the T21 PE60 oneday but not anytime soon. My ideal setup would be the T21 FR5 into the PE60 but for now I want a little variety, eventually though its happening lol

With MFX units, I strongly would prefer having a global eq & output level available on a multi unit that I would be using direct to PA or with headphones. Simply because adjusting the patch eq for all patches with different pa systems or headphones is a nightmare & big waste of time. I even would see it useful for using the unit with different amps supplied by the place for backline & i can't bring mine along for various daily life related issues(train/bus travel, weight, size, climbing stairs, etc. IOW a non roadie support life lol)

Great write up my man. Thank you for taking the time to reply in such detail.
I think you would like the GT-100 way better then the GT-10. It's much better in just about every way. The Modeling I can't speak for as I don't use it but they say it's better. I played with it and I hate it as I did on the GT-10. Yeah you can make it useable in ways but I get annoyed with it fast as the dynamics are just not there.
Speaking of Dynamics, this is something the GT-100 is much better then the GT-10. You retain more of your Plug directly into the front of your amp on the GT-100 then the GT-10. The GT-10 sucked the life out of your dynamics and make you sound flat and unresponsive. One thing I really hated about the GT-10.
I use the Headphone jack on the Gt-100 and but 4 patches with Modeling preamps just for nighttime practice like running scales or technic. I can't use it to play the songs I wrote or anything as like how you feel about the GT-10, The Gt-100 is very uninspiring sounding with Headphones. I have a pretty nice pair of German headphones and Hoestly I think it sounds like ass.

 

[mantis]

Re: Multi Effects vs Pedal age old question.

Yeah the GT-10 reverbs are limited. Not the best unit to base a suspicion of all multi FX on. The Fractal software does away with deep menus, it's like a Lego game attached to a very powerful machine. I'm a multi geek really, but totally enjoy individual pedals too. Using the Axe and a FCB1010 feels odd. But sounds decent.

Real spring reverb is real spring reverb. I grew up Fender and had Twins most of my playing life. Nothing on the planet to me is better then a Twin Reverb running spring. It's an incredible sound. The Cleans on those amps to me are the best in the world. I never really liked digital reverb. On the GT-100 I can dial in some good reverbs as they are pretty good on the GT-100 but the Spring doesn't compare to the real thing at all.

 

[Revelation Sound]

Re: Multi Effects vs Pedal age old question.

Many feel that good digital reverbs, delays, and chorus effects on a digital board are up there with analog pedals though a little different. Generally overdrive and distortion pedals are a bigger step up compared to what is on most digital boards.

When you start to listen more to the detail on the sound of a reverb or chorus you will find a favorite. With so many pedals out there, by comparing multiple chorus pedals for instance you may prefer the Seymour Duncan Cantlina Chorus when compared to the one on your digital board. Also the Vapor Trail reverb when you start to compare it's sound to what's on your board the same thing might happen as well.

I have the Vox Tonelab. I also have a Boogie Flux Drive pedal and when I plug it directly into the amp it has a nice aggressive sound. When the pedal goes through the Tonelab (even with no other effects) and into the amp it has a smoother more even sound. So I am not using the Tonelab much anymore as I don't like what it does to the tone of my pedal. With adding a 805 pedal and Vapor Trails reverb I am hopeful my tone of the Boogie pedal remains aggressive. I just bought the 805 and the Vapor Trail will probable be next. I will let you how things go with my experiment.