Music theory question. (chord progression)
- Thread starter Artie
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Re: Music theory question. (chord progression)
Hey Artie,
Firstly, before I go into working out if something is "diatonically correct" (in key) I just wanted to say that if it SOUNDS good to you then it must be good...know what I mean?
Now, onto the question......if those 4 chords are the progression, then the first step you take is to work out what notes are in each chord.....G = G,B,D..F= F, A, C...Bb = Bb, D, F and Am7 = A, C ,E ,G.....now, by putting them in alphabetical order we get: A, Bb, B, C, D, E, F, G, A (again). If you're well versed in scale theory you will recognise that, if we ignore the Bb for the moment, we have an A minor scale (C major as relative major) with no flats or sharps....BUT...that Bb major is telling us to alter the B to Bb over that chord. One way to get past this is to stick to C major/A minor but switch the B natural to a Bb over the Bb major chord in the progression.......it's not as difficult in practise really. Switch the B to Bb over that bar (or both the Bb and Am7 to make it easier) and you'll be fine.
Hey Artie,
Firstly, before I go into working out if something is "diatonically correct" (in key) I just wanted to say that if it SOUNDS good to you then it must be good...know what I mean?
Now, onto the question......if those 4 chords are the progression, then the first step you take is to work out what notes are in each chord.....G = G,B,D..F= F, A, C...Bb = Bb, D, F and Am7 = A, C ,E ,G.....now, by putting them in alphabetical order we get: A, Bb, B, C, D, E, F, G, A (again). If you're well versed in scale theory you will recognise that, if we ignore the Bb for the moment, we have an A minor scale (C major as relative major) with no flats or sharps....BUT...that Bb major is telling us to alter the B to Bb over that chord. One way to get past this is to stick to C major/A minor but switch the B natural to a Bb over the Bb major chord in the progression.......it's not as difficult in practise really. Switch the B to Bb over that bar (or both the Bb and Am7 to make it easier) and you'll be fine.
Artie
Peaveyologist
Re: Music theory question. (chord progression)
Actually, I know little to nothing about scale theory. However, I know a teeny bit more now, than I did an hour ago. Thanks for taking the time to explain this.
Edit: Editted out an image that was drawn wrong.
I'm not sure I understand this part of what you said, however:
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "switch the B to Bb over that bar . . .".
Do you mean to use a Bb in the Bb chord only, or in all instances, like in the G also?
Thanks, Artie
Edit: Ok, I realize that my question above doesn't make sense, because I don't really undertsand this. I can't ask the question properly, other than to say that I don't understand what you said in the part I quoted. :smack:
Actually, I know little to nothing about scale theory. However, I know a teeny bit more now, than I did an hour ago. Thanks for taking the time to explain this.
Edit: Editted out an image that was drawn wrong.
I'm not sure I understand this part of what you said, however:
Gunner said:
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "switch the B to Bb over that bar . . .".
Do you mean to use a Bb in the Bb chord only, or in all instances, like in the G also?
Thanks, Artie
Edit: Ok, I realize that my question above doesn't make sense, because I don't really undertsand this. I can't ask the question properly, other than to say that I don't understand what you said in the part I quoted. :smack:
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HeadBanginologist
Re: Music theory question. (chord progression)
it'd work fine but the B note in the G chord woudl clash with the Bb chord. you can use bu5t if you're soloing over it, be sure to play something somthing such as Bb major scale rather than sticking in the Key of A which is what the other chords are in.
it'd work fine but the B note in the G chord woudl clash with the Bb chord. you can use bu5t if you're soloing over it, be sure to play something somthing such as Bb major scale rather than sticking in the Key of A which is what the other chords are in.
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HeadBanginologist
Re: Music theory question. (chord progression)
i mean that by saying if you were playing in one key, specifically A minor, there is no Bb chord in A minor and if you were to play in A minor it wouldn't osund right playing the Bb chord.
i mean that by saying if you were playing in one key, specifically A minor, there is no Bb chord in A minor and if you were to play in A minor it wouldn't osund right playing the Bb chord.
S
seafoamer
Guest
Re: Music theory question. (chord progression)
Playing the chords you wrote, in the order you wrote them in, in 4/4 time, 2 or 4 beats per chord. I would say your progression is basically a G mixolydian sounding progression that utilizes the b3 chord (Bb), just like bluesy players utilize the b3 note of a scale over a Major chord, frequently.
Starting on the G chord, and especially if you return to the G chord after the Am7 chord, the ear will hear the G as the tonic.
I wouldn't be so concerned with being "technically correct" when composing music. Break rules at will, as long as you dig the sound that results.
Playing the chords you wrote, in the order you wrote them in, in 4/4 time, 2 or 4 beats per chord. I would say your progression is basically a G mixolydian sounding progression that utilizes the b3 chord (Bb), just like bluesy players utilize the b3 note of a scale over a Major chord, frequently.
Starting on the G chord, and especially if you return to the G chord after the Am7 chord, the ear will hear the G as the tonic.
I wouldn't be so concerned with being "technically correct" when composing music. Break rules at will, as long as you dig the sound that results.
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HeadBanginologist
Re: Music theory question. (chord progression)
yeah
just do what sounds good
yeah
just do what sounds good
Artie
Peaveyologist
Re: Music theory question. (chord progression)
Yeah, I basically agree with this. The reason I brought it up was, I've noticed that sometimes, when I'm recording, a chord transition that sounds ok while I'm playing it, doesn't sound right when I listen back to the recording. Its almost like, my ear, (or brain), hears what it wants to while composing, then later, while just listening, you hear it in a new light.
It's times like these when a little music theory knowledge can be a helpful compositional tool.
seafoamer said:
\m/(00)\m/ said:yeah
just do what sounds good
Yeah, I basically agree with this. The reason I brought it up was, I've noticed that sometimes, when I'm recording, a chord transition that sounds ok while I'm playing it, doesn't sound right when I listen back to the recording. Its almost like, my ear, (or brain), hears what it wants to while composing, then later, while just listening, you hear it in a new light.
It's times like these when a little music theory knowledge can be a helpful compositional tool.
Re: Music theory question. (chord progression)
I'll take another stab at this for ya Artie.....
Your chord progression G (containing the notes G, B and D) to F (F, A, C) to Bb (Bb, D, F) to Am7 (A, C, E, G) create a temporary key change....this doesn't mean anything is "wrong" or "bad", ok? If you like the sound of that progression and you want to either improvise or work towards composing a melody to "sound right" with these chords you have to work out what KEY you're in.....and work out any places where you might need to choose different notes which aren't in that key.....
The idea is to think of each chord as being a freamwork for you to build on...or even a corridor to the next chord.....each note being kinda like a wall or obstacle which you either have to get around or steer clear of. So, by using the A minor/C major scale you would be fine until you came up to the Bb chord- here is where a B natural from the Am/C major scale will "hit an obstacle" in that a Bb note should be played (especially considering that the Bb major chord's root note is Bb)...what I suggest is to noodle around with A minor/ A blues or C major up until you hit the Bb chord and then you simply avoid B and play a Bb in it's place (using the obstacle analogy- think of somebody moving an obstacle to a different place for a second.....you're used to it being in the old place...BAM!...OUCH!)
Give it a try......but remember, if it sounds good to you...then it IS good.
I'll take another stab at this for ya Artie.....
Your chord progression G (containing the notes G, B and D) to F (F, A, C) to Bb (Bb, D, F) to Am7 (A, C, E, G) create a temporary key change....this doesn't mean anything is "wrong" or "bad", ok? If you like the sound of that progression and you want to either improvise or work towards composing a melody to "sound right" with these chords you have to work out what KEY you're in.....and work out any places where you might need to choose different notes which aren't in that key.....
The idea is to think of each chord as being a freamwork for you to build on...or even a corridor to the next chord.....each note being kinda like a wall or obstacle which you either have to get around or steer clear of. So, by using the A minor/C major scale you would be fine until you came up to the Bb chord- here is where a B natural from the Am/C major scale will "hit an obstacle" in that a Bb note should be played (especially considering that the Bb major chord's root note is Bb)...what I suggest is to noodle around with A minor/ A blues or C major up until you hit the Bb chord and then you simply avoid B and play a Bb in it's place (using the obstacle analogy- think of somebody moving an obstacle to a different place for a second.....you're used to it being in the old place...BAM!...OUCH!)
Give it a try......but remember, if it sounds good to you...then it IS good.
moog1000
New member
Re: Music theory question. (chord progression)
Good chord progression Artie!
As stated above, if your returning to the G after the Am7 then the tonic is gonna appear to be G, so think of some things to do in G, but bear in mind that contains G a B natural and Bb, well, is Bb flat! Many blues players in the past have used a b3rd over a chord containing the Major 3rd (Bb over a G for example) so don't be afraid to leave the B out and stick to a predominately 'minor' note choice.
I'd look at using:
blues scale: g Bb c Db d f or
G Dorian: g a Bb c d e f
Good chord progression Artie!
As stated above, if your returning to the G after the Am7 then the tonic is gonna appear to be G, so think of some things to do in G, but bear in mind that contains G a B natural and Bb, well, is Bb flat! Many blues players in the past have used a b3rd over a chord containing the Major 3rd (Bb over a G for example) so don't be afraid to leave the B out and stick to a predominately 'minor' note choice.
I'd look at using:
blues scale: g Bb c Db d f or
G Dorian: g a Bb c d e f
Artie
Peaveyologist
Re: Music theory question. (chord progression)
Ok, I think I see where you guys are going with this. It has to do with how I select my lead notes. In order for there to be a coherent melody, I need to fit my lead notes to the "key" that I've established by virtue of the chords I've selected . . . I think.
Anyway, here's a sorta outline of what I'm trying to build. Its yet another attempt at creating the country-ish song I promised my wife - for getting me my first Duncan's.
Country Twang.mp3
Like I said, its just a rough outline, but it gives you an idea of the direction I'm trying to take it.
Ok, I think I see where you guys are going with this. It has to do with how I select my lead notes. In order for there to be a coherent melody, I need to fit my lead notes to the "key" that I've established by virtue of the chords I've selected . . . I think.
Anyway, here's a sorta outline of what I'm trying to build. Its yet another attempt at creating the country-ish song I promised my wife - for getting me my first Duncan's.
Country Twang.mp3
Like I said, its just a rough outline, but it gives you an idea of the direction I'm trying to take it.
moog1000
New member
Re: Music theory question. (chord progression)
In a nutshell!!!
Good track also...
ArtieToo said:Ok, I think I see where you guys are going with this. It has to do with how I select my lead notes. In order for there to be a coherent melody, I need to fit my lead notes to the "key" that I've established by virtue of the chords I've selected . . . I think.
In a nutshell!!!
Good track also...
S
seafoamer
Guest
Re: Music theory question. (chord progression)
Yeah, It's all about the melody. Bach, Coltrane, Monk, etc, all wrote tunes with quite an amount of Modulations. Melody is what makes it make sense and stay relevant.
I like your idea! Lots of possibilities for building an entire composition. Keep going with it!
Yeah, It's all about the melody. Bach, Coltrane, Monk, etc, all wrote tunes with quite an amount of Modulations. Melody is what makes it make sense and stay relevant.
I like your idea! Lots of possibilities for building an entire composition. Keep going with it!
tone4days
Heel Whacker
Re: Music theory question. (chord progression)
another thing to be aware of is how it resolves when it comes around ... i think that the 4 chords you gave sound fine, but when the a-7 resolves back to the top (G), it has a harmonic motion that requires some attention
but that's just my silly little opinion because i usually hear weird things when listening to a chord with a 7 in it resovle to a chord with only three tones
... i guess that's why almost all of my tunes have chords with 7's in them
cheers
t4d
another thing to be aware of is how it resolves when it comes around ... i think that the 4 chords you gave sound fine, but when the a-7 resolves back to the top (G), it has a harmonic motion that requires some attention
but that's just my silly little opinion because i usually hear weird things when listening to a chord with a 7 in it resovle to a chord with only three tones
... i guess that's why almost all of my tunes have chords with 7's in them cheers
t4d
S
seafoamer
Guest
Re: Music theory question. (chord progression)
^ The 7th of Am7 is "G". There isn't anything tricky (or needing extra attention)about a resolution from an Am7 to a G chord.
^ The 7th of Am7 is "G". There isn't anything tricky (or needing extra attention)about a resolution from an Am7 to a G chord.
tone4days
Heel Whacker
Re: Music theory question. (chord progression)
yes, of course ... although i am sure you meant to say that the flatted 7th in Am7 is G (spelled 1-b3-5-b7) ... if it were a 7th, it would be an A min maj7 chord (spelled 1-b3-5-7)
when i said 'harmonic motion' i was using it as shorthand to refer to the guide tones (3s and 7s) ... moving from the Am7 to G major leaves the harmonic motion of the upper guide tone hanging .. or, if you like, the upper guide tone moving to the root
anyhow, artie's tune is cool the way it is
rock on
cheers
t4d
seafoamer said:
yes, of course ... although i am sure you meant to say that the flatted 7th in Am7 is G (spelled 1-b3-5-b7) ... if it were a 7th, it would be an A min maj7 chord (spelled 1-b3-5-7)
when i said 'harmonic motion' i was using it as shorthand to refer to the guide tones (3s and 7s) ... moving from the Am7 to G major leaves the harmonic motion of the upper guide tone hanging .. or, if you like, the upper guide tone moving to the root
anyhow, artie's tune is cool the way it is
rock on
cheers
t4d
