My Legacy blew up!!!

B2D

SDUGF Riffologist Supremö
:eek2: :yell: :blackeye:

OK... so Evergrove's practicing at my pad this afternoon and we're in the middle of a tune. Midway through I hear this KKRRRTTCH sound from my amp. I check my pedals... still powered, cords still in. Then Liana goes, "Oh my God, you're on fire!!!"

I looked back and the amp's lights were off but there's very nasty-looking and smelling gray-black smoke curling out the back of the amp's rear grille. I ran over and yanked all the power and signal cables out of the amp, and Russ ran to the garage and got a screwdriver and a small desk fan.

I unscrewed the rear grille and fanned out all the smoke in there... Tubes looked normal and weren't burnt or broken or discolored. However the output transformer (the bigger of the two, I think that's the OT tranny) was too hot to touch and smoke was leaking out from under the chassis.

We took it outside (didn't want that smoke in the house) and kept the fan on it until it was cool enough to touch. It took half an hour to cool down. After that I unscrewed the amp from the headbox, and underneath the amp this is what i find...

Total damage...
IMG_0026.jpg


Right underneath the transformer, next to the V1 preamp tube:
IMG_0015.jpg


Between V9 and V9 power tubes.
IMG_0021.jpg



As you can see... the fire came from two resistors next to V1. My drummer, Troy, has been training to be an electrician and he said what it looks like they got hot enough to explode and set the board on fire. The other two in the lower section burned but didn't explode.

The fire probably used all the air under the chassis and burnt itself out. it probably only lasted a few seconds or so.

Here's the weird thing... my amps been a bit noisy for the past month so Friday night I took the back off and powered it up normally The tubes didn't display a negative reaction to the tap test with a chopstick and behaved normally... good color, no O2 leakage, etcs. They sounded worn but looked perfect. Nothing else looked strange.

As some of you may know I run an attenuator... this heats up the tubes a little but higher than normal but aside from the paint on the tubes turning from red to brown from the heat (happened a long time ago) I've operated the amp like that from day 1 (almost 2 years) with no ill effects.

As you might imagine the fuse blew as well haha.

Lucky for me Russ is letting me borrow his Classic 30 head until I get a replacement, but before I get another Legacy I wanna know WHY this happened so if it's preventable I can take stock of that and not do something to make that happen again. I don't redline the amp, I put it on about 6 for both channels, and then the attenuator controls that to get it to non-earsplitting level. I've run it like that for two years with no trouble.

Any idea what the hell happened??
 
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Re: My Legacy blew up!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Re: My Legacy blew up!!!

Dang B that SUCKS! I'd be trekking to the Carvin dealer since you've got one fairly local. Id' throw the head down on the counter and say "please explain this".

At least you weren't at a gig.

Luke
 
Re: My Legacy blew up!!!

Dang B that SUCKS! I'd be trekking to the Carvin dealer since you've got one fairly local. Id' throw the head down on the counter and say "please explain this".

At least you weren't at a gig.

Luke

I'm gonna go to the Santa Ana store (25 miles away) ASAP and see what they can do for me. They're very nice people down there and they've taken good care of me in the past. I know forum bro "frehley" works at the Carvin LA store... I wonder what he'll have to say about this?

Yeah good thing it wasn't on our show at the Coach House that we're doing on one month... eeep!! I think I'll be carrying a backup amp from now on!

Do you still have the warranty on it?

*flips through warrenty papers* Boy am I glad I keep this stuff around... looks like a 1 year warranty on everything and I bought the amp in July '05. Dammit!

Hey guys... uhh... am I correct in assuming this amp can't be fixed or that the repairs will cost as much as a new amp?
 
Re: My Legacy blew up!!!

My first reaction was to think it might have been a defect in the tubes of some kind, then I saw the mention of a attenuator and found my answer. I used a HotPlate style unit in the studio on my modified Marshall jcm800 (distortion mod made by a guy named MetalHead in Hollywood) back in '93. Same thing happened. It caught fire and ruined my otherwise, killer amp. Now, I'm not a amp tech but the amp worked fine for about 8 years before an attenuator was ever used. I used this amp without an attenuator for most of the session, then I stupidly thought I'd give one a try. Ten minutes later, I didn't have an amp anymore. This is something that happened to me and I'm not saying this will happen to everyone who uses one but I feel the attenuator was the cause of the "Great White" fireworks. Send it in to Carvin anyway and see what they can do.
 
Re: My Legacy blew up!!!

My first reaction was to think it might have been a defect in the tubes of some kind, then I saw the mention of a attenuator and found my answer. I used a HotPlate style unit in the studio on my modified Marshall jcm800 (distortion mod made by a guy named MetalHead in Hollywood) back in '93. Same thing happened. It caught fire and ruined my otherwise, killer amp. Now, I'm not a amp tech but the amp worked fine for about 8 years before an attenuator was ever used. I used this amp without an attenuator for most of the session, then I stupidly thought I'd give one a try. Ten minutes later, I didn't have an amp anymore. This is something that happened to me and I'm not saying this will happen to everyone who uses one but I feel the attenuator was the cause of the "Great White" fireworks. Send it in to Carvin anyway and see what they can do.

OK... as far as the tubes go, I had this particular set of tubes fine-tuned by a tech at the factory in San Diego, so that's out of my hands, at the very least. ;)

You said as soon as you used an attenuator (10 minutes later), your amp went down. I have several questions on that respect....

1) I bought this amp brand new and I've used it weekly at gigging-level power since July 2005. If using an attenuator was so bad for the amp, why didn't I have something like this happen far sooner or at least get some warning signs?

2) You said you used a HotPlate-style unit. In my mind that means "not a Hotplate" which means it could've been anything. Is it possible you used a badly-made attenuator or something else screwed your amp up?

3) How does a problem with the attenuator blow up resistors on the preamp board as well as the power amp board? Those ones on the Preamp board are right by tube V1, and the ones on the power amp board are cooked but didn't full-on explode like the other ones did... The transformer that sits right above that particular set of resistors was smoking-hot... is that the output transformer or the input one? It looks like the input transformer... the OTHER one (away from the barbeque) has wires going right to the speaker jacks.


Like I said... the attenuator could be the culprit but given it's excellent performance and track record I'm really trying to take in all possibilities here. If I or anyone else can figure out what happened I'll at least feel like this wasn't a total loss.
 
Re: My Legacy blew up!!!

It's the gods, telling you "no more Carvin products."

I know it sucks, but maybe Carvin will take care of it for free, if you also send them a link to this thread. LOL Their reputation hangs in the balance!

My Carvin power amp did the same thing.....well, it was the diode bridge that was toast. They fixed it free, minus my shipping cost, which was very fair of them....considering I couldn't find my receipt.

As for future amp purchases.....Shiva head.
 
Re: My Legacy blew up!!!

It's the gods, telling you "no more Carvin products."

I know it sucks, but maybe Carvin will take care of it for free, if you also send them a link to this thread. LOL Their reputation hangs in the balance!

My Carvin power amp did the same thing.....well, it was the diode bridge that was toast. They fixed it free, minus my shipping cost, which was very fair of them....considering I couldn't find my receipt.

As for future amp purchases.....Shiva head.

Yeah, Marshalls are notorious for blowing up yet, people still can't get enough of them. I'm not a tech so I'm not qualified to answer any technical questions but you asked why it took so long for the amp to burn as if it's a bad thing that it took so long to fry. That's because the Legacy is built like a tank and took the abuse for that long.

Just take it in to Santa Ana and have them fix it. Explain everything in detail like you did here. They'll make it right if it was indeed a defect on the part of the amp.
 
Re: My Legacy blew up!!!

sorry to hear it - I want to use the hotplate one day, and know others here use em too - hope they repair the amp for free
 
Re: My Legacy blew up!!!

Yeah, Marshalls are notorious for blowing up yet, people still can't get enough of them. I'm not a tech so I'm not qualified to answer any technical questions but you asked why it took so long for the amp to burn as if it's a bad thing that it took so long to fry. That's because the Legacy is built like a tank and took the abuse for that long.

Just take it in to Santa Ana and have them fix it. Explain everything in detail like you did here. They'll make it right if it was indeed a defect on the part of the amp.

Frehley, thanks for your input. I really appreciate it.

Even if I can get this amp fixed this leaves me with another quandary... what do I do from here? Let me explain...

My one problem with the Legacy is that even with the 1/2 power switch, the amp is still too loud for 90% of the work I do. I like to have the amp's volume at around 5 to get my sound, and most people start giving me dirty looks after 3, and forget about being able to turn it past 2 for gigs... the sound men won't have it. I love the amp, but the excessive power is difficult to work with if you're playing the kinds of shows I do. If I was playing large halls this wouldn't be an issue. Outdoors that extra power is quite a cool thing to have!! But like I said I was using the attenuator to be able to get the amp in that zone and still not get complaints about the volume.

If the attenuator is truly what damaged my amp, I'm likely to never use one again. Which means I need an amp in the 30-50 watt range.

Maybe the thing with the amp being too loud isn't wattage but the speaker coverage... maybe I should dump the 4x12 and get a 2x12. My roommate (who is also a member on here; chopstherocker, and he posted in this thread) has a Legacy 2x12 cab and uses it with a Fender Bandmaster from the 60's and it works quite well for him.

In any case I hope I can find a toneful, satisfying, and affordable solution. I'd really love to keep the Legacy for my main rig if I can keep the volume under control without an attenuator.
 
Re: My Legacy blew up!!!

Comiz dude...wow it's amazing being a gear head and seeing something like that because it almost feels as if a good mates friend has died.

Just on the Marshall thing, I have an excellent amp tech and one thing that he said once has stuck in my mind...he said NEVER ATTENUATE A MARSHALL! Now I'm not sure why, or if he was only referring to older single channel Marshalls, but those were his exact words and he had a good reason for it. For some reason he thought that running an attenuator with a Marshall would just kill the amp, but modding them either pre-power or post-power section was okay.

I'm no tech, but that's what he said...interesting...
 
Re: My Legacy blew up!!!

that sucks b, hopefully carvin will make it right.

im curious why everyone thinks running an attenuator is so bad. what is the difference between running the amp full up with or without an attenuator?
 
Re: My Legacy blew up!!!

Sorry to see the fried electronics Brenneaux. Carvin is usually a decent company, but I'll be watching the outcome of this and see how they handle this case. You know amps well, so I doubt that you caused the problem you are experiencing. Seems like a defective board component to me or a defective transformer. I currently own carvin products and they've been good so far, but I'll be watching how they treat you and basing further purchase decisions on that. Make sure they know this (bring a printout of this thread).
 
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Re: My Legacy blew up!!!

#1 - tracking down the culprit: try to find a schematic for the legacy. track down the resistors/diodes/whatevers that burned or exploded. see what they do, this will give you an answer, what might have happened and why it happened

#2 - this might have been the attenuators fault, and if it is, the attenuator is 'broken' or somebody messed with it. if it ran for that long without any screwups, it is NOT the attenuators fault, unless it's in any way been tampered with, but seeing that the preamp stage got fried, i do not see why it would be the attenuator. having said that, how many times did you have to change tubes in this amp. when you did, did you check the amp for any might-be problems? how old were the tubes

#3 - having an attenuator and blasting the amp full out, is no different than having no attenuator and blasting the amp at the same settings. it's just a power soak, that transforms the signal into heat (some even light).
why people think attenuators are bad, is cos they dont think past step1. yes, the tubes and other components will burn out faster, than they would usually, AT THE SAME VOLUME. remove the attenuator and run the amp at the same settings (which will obviously make it louder), it will burn out in the same time.


good luck brenno. i'd go crazy if my amp blew
 
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Re: My Legacy blew up!!!

(3) How does a problem with the attenuator blow up resistors on the preamp board as well as the power amp board? Those ones on the Preamp board are right by tube V1, and the ones on the power amp board are cooked but didn't full-on explode like the other ones did... The transformer that sits right above that particular set of resistors was smoking-hot... is that the output transformer or the input one? It looks like the input transformer... the OTHER one (away from the barbeque) has wires going right to the speaker jacks.
The TF that goes to the jacks is the output TF. That's the one that would normally blow if your power section has a problem.

You've also got a slightly smaller TF called a Power TF. This is responsible for taking the electricity from the wall and sending it where it needs to go and in the appropriate amounts.

While you were playing was there a brownout or short black out?

Without looking at the amp or a layout I can't tell you what resistors you blew are for. What about traces around the 2 exploded resistors, can you see where they were going?

The burned up resistors can you tell where the traces went? Was it to the last pre before your power tubes?

Like I said... the attenuator could be the culprit but given it's excellent performance and track record I'm really trying to take in all possibilities here. If I or anyone else can figure out what happened I'll at least feel like this wasn't a total loss.

I couldn't imagine that, it is a Dr. Z attenuator made off a Fischer design.

Luke
 
Re: My Legacy blew up!!!

ouch that sucks man! i'm with GJ though...a good chance to buy something that isn't Carvin lol.

as for the attenuator it couldn't be that because they don't hurt amps (well made attenuators that is...hot plate, mass, DR. Z etc). let's think about it you take your guitar through a cable to the head through a cable to the cab...turn it up to 10 and play. then if you take your guitar through a cable to the head through a hot plate through a cable into the cab and turn the head up to 10 and play....what changed in the head??? not a damn thing, it's working just like it was before the hot plate was there and it doesn't even know the hot plate is there. the hot plate is taking the "abuse" of the wanted volume drop, the amp just thinks it's cranking out at 10 (or whatever you set it to). sure you'll go through tubes a hair faster but it would be the same rate as if you just cranked the amp all the time with no hot plate.

-Mike
 
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