My Opinion On Alternative 8 with Alnico 5

[charlemetallica]

Just had a test for An Alternative 8 with Alnico 5 in it, I used it in A samick Artist series with Alder Body and Ebony Fretboard , with an Engl Fireball Head.

1-The bottom end is as tight as duncan distortion ( but not full 3D big sounding when the A8 was in the pup).

2- The mids ( low-mid-high ) are as great as in the JB without being annoying, but even they are not very tamed(or spread as some people say) as A8 do in the ALT8 and that is the reason that some people don't like.

3-The highs are very clear without being harsh in any way, some in a distance between JB and DD, not as shrill as DD , nor a bit not clear as JB)

Great Pup really.

The only thing I am missing is the 3d big Sound , it is tight ya,but not as big as original Alt 8.

Any suggestions to get this 3D Big sound with tightness.

 

[marvelous_seven]

Re: My Opinion On Alternative 8 with Alnico 5

Cool review!
Have you tried ceramic magnet in it?

 

[charlemetallica]

Re: My Opinion On Alternative 8 with Alnico 5

Cool review!
Have you tried ceramic magnet in it?

No I have not, As I don't like the compression of ceramics on notes, I might give it a try just to make a review.

 

[jake_xms3_punk]

Re: My Opinion On Alternative 8 with Alnico 5

cool. i was wondering what an Alt 8 would sound like with an A5. do you have any sound clips?

 

[Soulcrusher_X]

Re: My Opinion On Alternative 8 with Alnico 5

Try an unoriented A5 in it.

 

[dirtool]

Re: My Opinion On Alternative 8 with Alnico 5

so you like it with alnico 5 rather than alnico 8?

 

[gvis]

Re: My Opinion On Alternative 8 with Alnico 5

Try an unoriented A5 in it.

Coming soon....just ordered two rough cast, unoriented A5's. One is for the invader neck (if that doesn't help then I'll try an A2), and the other was extra because they came as a set, so I might as well see how it sounds in the alt 8.

My first mag swap..lol...we'll see how it goes.

 

[gvis]

Re: My Opinion On Alternative 8 with Alnico 5

Not happy with the UOA5 in my alt 8. Less boomy bass than the A8, and a bit warmer, but it doesn't handle high gain as well and just didn't sound right to me overall; definitely not as big. Gonna try it in the neck, just for yuks.

Also tried an UOA5 in my invader neck, but without removing the side magnets (I think they're magnets and not just supports), because I didn't have time to fab wood pieces like I did for the middle wood piece. Not good...lol...probably because of mixing mags. I'll try removing the side mags later, but I got a bad feeling that won't help much.

But now I can swap mags...woohoo. Ridiculously easy, considering else I've managed to do.

 

[charlemetallica]

Re: My Opinion On Alternative 8 with Alnico 5

Not happy with the UOA5 in my alt 8. Less boomy bass than the A8, and a bit warmer, but it doesn't handle high gain as well and just didn't sound right to me overall; definitely not as big. Gonna try it in the neck, just for yuks.

Also tried an UOA5 in my invader neck, but without removing the side magnets (I think they're magnets and not just supports), because I didn't have time to fab wood pieces like I did for the middle wood piece. Not good...lol...probably because of mixing mags. I'll try removing the side mags later, but I got a bad feeling that won't help much.

But now I can swap mags...woohoo. Ridiculously easy, considering else I've managed to do.

Great to hear your feedback, Magnet swabbing is really easy yeah, So man I know A5 is not as tight as A8 , but it i think it is more clear and the mids are more pronounced , well, I am still looking for the tone man, still I am not satisfied too with the ALT8 with A5, What do you think is the next step? A duncan Distortion with A8 , or a duncan custom with A5? Have you tried any of these before?

 

[metalmachine]

Re: My Opinion On Alternative 8 with Alnico 5

No I have not, As I don't like the compression of ceramics on notes, I might give it a try just to make a review.

if you do this I will be very grateful. It may save me from buying a distortion for my explorer

 

[gvis]

Re: My Opinion On Alternative 8 with Alnico 5

Great to hear your feedback, Magnet swabbing is really easy yeah, So man I know A5 is not as tight as A8 , but it i think it is more clear and the mids are more pronounced , well, I am still looking for the tone man, still I am not satisfied too with the ALT8 with A5, What do you think is the next step? A duncan Distortion with A8 , or a duncan custom with A5? Have you tried any of these before?

No prob. Yes, it's certainly clearer, but it breaks up sooner under gain and the breakup is fuzzier. I'm probably not explaining it well enough. It just didn't feel right. I played around the pup height, etc, but get it better than with the A8 mag.

I'm sorry, I haven't tried those other combos. My search continues as well. I may be headed back to dimarzio land for a bit, starting by putting back the stock dimarzio made just for parker, which, I think, is based on either the tone zone or fred. Maybe not as heavy as what I've been writing lately, but took a listen to some very old tunes I did recently I actually prefer the sound I was getting then to where I'm at now, at for the bridge position. Back then I didn't have a neck humbucker, so, if the invader efforts don't pan out, I may be looking at the liquifier (or whatever it's called).

I could be wrong and find I stilll ike the bridge pups I've tried in the last year better, but I at least need a frame of rerence because I'm all turned around now...lol.

 

[Franknfilms]

Re: My Opinion On Alternative 8 with Alnico 5

Thanks for reporting on these mag swaps. When it comes to the heavy distortion class pickups, there are limited magnets that will sound good in my opinion. A heavily wound pickup typically needs a ceramic magnet to achieve any clarity. A8 seems to do pretty well too. But you rarely hear people raving about an A2 Distortion, for example. This is why I prefer the medium range output, like Customs. They're just hot enough to stay tight for metal, but can sound great with pretty much any magnet.

 

[gvis]

Re: My Opinion On Alternative 8 with Alnico 5

Thanks for reporting on these mag swaps. When it comes to the heavy distortion class pickups, there are limited magnets that will sound good in my opinion. A heavily wound pickup typically needs a ceramic magnet to achieve any clarity. A8 seems to do pretty well too. But you rarely hear people raving about an A2 Distortion, for example. This is why I prefer the medium range output, like Customs. They're just hot enough to stay tight for metal, but can sound great with pretty much any magnet.

This makes sense to me. I had a feeling it was due to a mismatch between a higher wind and lower outout mag. Sounded like it was choking on itself.

 

[King IzzO)))]

Re: My Opinion On Alternative 8 with Alnico 5

Hey, an A2 Distortion sounds great, it's just more like a Double Whammy or a VH pickup than a metal pickup. An A8 DD or JB isn't going to be all that different from the Alt8.


Gvis, a UOA5 is probably not the best choice for the Invader, or the Alt 8, if you plan on playing tighter metal stuff with it. The UOA5 makes the attack softer (or chewier), combine that with the big poles and you've probably got mush.

Polished A5's are what you want if you want a real representation of what they can do with an A5, don't be as afraid of the pulled mids as you'd be with a PAF type, these are both very similar winds to the JB. The Alt 8 should be like a thicker JB with an A5 installed, and an Invader would be similar to a bassier JB with an A5 installed and the spacers removed. I've done the A5 Detonator, and it was a beefier, chubbier JB for sure.

If it were me I'd put the A8 from the Alt in the Invader without the spacers and put a polished A5 in the Alt and run it in the neck. The JB makes an awesome neck pickup BTW, so an Alt5 prolly kicks ass too.

 

[gvis]

Re: My Opinion On Alternative 8 with Alnico 5

Hey, an A2 Distortion sounds great, it's just more like a Double Whammy or a VH pickup than a metal pickup. An A8 DD or JB isn't going to be all that different from the Alt8.


Gvis, a UOA5 is probably not the best choice for the Invader, or the Alt 8, if you plan on playing tighter metal stuff with it. The UOA5 makes the attack softer (or chewier), combine that with the big poles and you've probably got mush.

Polished A5's are what you want if you want a real representation of what they can do with an A5, don't be as afraid of the pulled mids as you'd be with a PAF type, these are both very similar winds to the JB. The Alt 8 should be like a thicker JB with an A5 installed, and an Invader would be similar to a bassier JB with an A5 installed and the spacers removed. I've done the A5 Detonator, and it was a beefier, chubbier JB for sure.

If it were me I'd put the A8 from the Alt in the Invader without the spacers and put a polished A5 in the Alt and run it in the neck. The JB makes an awesome neck pickup BTW, so an Alt5 prolly kicks ass too.

Hey, thanks. That makes sense, because the two UOA5's I bought are rough cut (maybe the all are?), and chewy is a great of describing what I'm hearing.

I was about to order a liquifire, but I think I'll hold off and give this a shot. Didn't you do an A8 mag into invader bridge recently? If so, how did it compare to a stock alt 8? I like the extra treble and bite I gained with the alt8 (though not really a biting pup), and I may end up being able to live with it as my bridge pup; the bass is still just on the too thick side (like the invader). I can dial it with my special trim pot, but I may just end up adding an inline bass filter set for where I play the most. But I do like that I can get a thick bass when I want it.

I guess I'll find out easy enough. All three pups are in there and I can move them around without changing anything.

I'm lost again on my setup...lol...and still searching for the right combo. Some of what's driving it is that 1) the 550k volume and 250k tone pot (from 250k both), which I did to open up the invader, just seems colder to me (not necessarily more trebly) 2) I get this fluttering in the much higher frets on long held higher gain leads (could be the bizzillion electronics I have, although I get zero interference, noise, etc)) and 3) hearing my old recordings with the Fred made wanting that sound.

It's a big hassle changing but keeping the electronics with this setup, so I'm stripping at all out and testing with a bare minimum combo vol/tone pot of 250k/250k. No split switches for each pup, no separate special tone pots for each pup, etc. We'll see.

 

[charlemetallica]

Re: My Opinion On Alternative 8 with Alnico 5

Hey Guys,

Just Tried the Duncan Custom an hour ago, Well, It has a big tight bottom , really smooth highs, but the Mid are really scooped( It has a ceramic magnet, which is supposed to have more pronounced mids, like the A5, and more than A8, so seems that it will not be my pickup too, now , I am still looking for my pickup, but to my ears still the Alt8 with A5 is the best till now.

My next one will be a Duncan Distortion with A5 , but I ll stick a demagnetized normal sized magnet under the A5 as the Distortion has an over sized magnet in it.

Any Opinions guys.??

 

[King IzzO)))]

Re: My Opinion On Alternative 8 with Alnico 5

Gvis, try just taking out the spacer mags but leaving the middle ceramic in your Invader. I think that will get you where you're wanting to go. Basically you'll end up with a Detonator. Do that and put a polished A5 in that Alt and I'll bet it rocks hard.

I would def have 500K's though.



CM, don't make things more difficult than they are, if the Alt5 disappoints you I think you're gonna be disappointed with an A5 DD too, and putting 2 mags together doesn't work very well. If the Alt5 is good, call it good.

If you can't help yourself, you could try:
A8 in the Custom (I don't think you'll like it, but most do)
DD mag in the Custom (my fave Custom, you might like this)
Custom mag in the Alt8 or DD, which I think is what you're looking for.

 

[gvis]

Re: My Opinion On Alternative 8 with Alnico 5

Gvis, try just taking out the spacer mags but leaving the middle ceramic in your Invader. I think that will get you where you're wanting to go. Basically you'll end up with a Detonator. Do that and put a polished A5 in that Alt and I'll bet it rocks hard.

I would def have 500K's though.

Hmmm...so you're talking about the bridge invader, right? What is the effect of removing the side mags? Less output, change in eq? It's easy enough, so I'll give it a shot.

I think you're then saying put the polished A5, which I just ordered, in the Alt 8 and move it to the neck, right? I'll try all of this.

I'm also considering trying a combo of alt5 and fred (left over parker pup), trying each in bridge/neck to see what works best.

I'm a little skeptical of the invader mod, but we'll see. Ceramic may just be too harsh for me.

Another option may be invader bridge with alt 8. Anyone try that? If that works, I could put either the alt 5 or fred in the neck.

And I still have the invader neck sitting in the middle as a wild card. I still need to try removing its side mags and leave just the UOA5. if that doesn't work out in either the neck or middle, I may try the A2 I ordered in both those positions.

One painful thing I realized though: I mistakenly ordered non-F spaced invader bridge and alt 8...lol...major dumbass move last year. This may impact my decisions. I haven't heard anything unusual from the low and high strings, but without comparing to f-spcaded versions, how woudl I know? I recall seeing a thread once that said the invader's huge hex screws and mags make up for it, but what about the alt8?

While it would cost more, there's good chance I end up with the fred, which is f-spaced (and lwoer output) in the bridge and liquifire in the neck.

 

[King IzzO)))]

Re: My Opinion On Alternative 8 with Alnico 5

I thought you were talking about the Invader bridge, I actually didn't realize there were 3 mags in the Invader neck, never messed with one. I think it's just a Jazz with the big pole screws though, so if it has spacer mags it might be worth pulling them to see what it's like. I've done an A4 and an A2 in a Jazz, I didn't really like any of them though, I like thicker neck tones than what any of them gave me.

I haven't taken out the side mags of the Invader and left the big ceramic, but I have played a Detonator and a stock Invader, a lot. The Deto is much less stuffy and stiff, much more like a DD but with more throat, if that makes sense. Great pickup.

Do you mean you're gonna try the A8 mag in the Invader? If so it's awesome, the low mids and bottom end are pumped up a lot though, so you might not like it. I was going for a specific sound with that one.

Don't worry about the F-space thing, I've tried them all, never had a problem, and they don't make an F-spaced Invader. The Deto is f-spaced though, ironically.

I really like the Fred as a neck pickup, I kinda doubt it will work with your other pickups as a bridge pickup.

I recommend trying the Deto mod to the Invader with the Alt5 or Fred in the neck, see if that works for you. You could also switch the Alt5 to parallel, which might be cool too (you were doing this with the Alt8, right?). If it's muffled sounding and you're missing some presence try some 500K pots (I think you'll end up doing this).

 

[gvis]

Re: My Opinion On Alternative 8 with Alnico 5

I thought you were talking about the Invader bridge, I actually didn't realize there were 3 mags in the Invader neck, never messed with one. I think it's just a Jazz with the big pole screws though, so if it has spacer mags it might be worth pulling them to see what it's like. I've done an A4 and an A2 in a Jazz, I didn't really like any of them though, I like thicker neck tones than what any of them gave me.

I haven't taken out the side mags of the Invader and left the big ceramic, but I have played a Detonator and a stock Invader, a lot. The Deto is much less stuffy and stiff, much more like a DD but with more throat, if that makes sense. Great pickup.

Do you mean you're gonna try the A8 mag in the Invader? If so it's awesome, the low mids and bottom end are pumped up a lot though, so you might not like it. I was going for a specific sound with that one.

Don't worry about the F-space thing, I've tried them all, never had a problem, and they don't make an F-spaced Invader. The Deto is f-spaced though, ironically.

I really like the Fred as a neck pickup, I kinda doubt it will work with your other pickups as a bridge pickup.

I recommend trying the Deto mod to the Invader with the Alt5 or Fred in the neck, see if that works for you. You could also switch the Alt5 to parallel, which might be cool too (you were doing this with the Alt8, right?). If it's muffled sounding and you're missing some presence try some 500K pots (I think you'll end up doing this).

Great, thanks for all the tips! I think the invader bridge deto mod with the alt5 or fred in the nck makes sense.

Then I can mess with the invader neck in the middle position, which really just needs to be warmed up a bit by the UOA5 or A2. Yes, it has side supports; just not sure yet if they'e actually mags. If not, then the UOA5 in it with it in the neck was way to thin, likely because the neck invader is eq'd thninner anyway and the UOA% has less mids than the ceramic (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm hoping they are side mags and that the UOA5 warms it up; it may be a nice neck pup after all.

Lots of choices. And so glad the f-spacing isn't an issue. Oh, and yes, all three pups are currently series/parallel/split optioned, and when the alt8 was in the neck I ran it parallel, although it was still too thick for anything but really cool treble reduced wooly high gain leads.

I'm going to move away from these switches once I determine what wiring works bets for each pup and then hard wire it in. It's just to hard to make changes with all that crap in there.