My tone stinks.
- Thread starter Diego
- Start date
everdrone
New member
Re: My tone stinks.
ya I wish it all was smaller and weighed less! been looking at kemper and http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EON615/ but the speaker weighs 40 pounds and super expensive and still prolly wont do what I want it to
ya I wish it all was smaller and weighed less! been looking at kemper and http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EON615/ but the speaker weighs 40 pounds and super expensive and still prolly wont do what I want it to
jimijames
New member
Re: My tone stinks.
I agree, kind of - yes there's a lot of "bad" sounding gear (my very first pedal was a DOD auto-wah/envelope filter, for example), but I don't think that it's driven by these greedy manufacturers and famous guys trying to trick us into getting rich.
I think it's because we as guitarists find it easier to play the same licks through a different pedal than it is to commit extra time to practice during the week. The different sounds and separated by only whiskers really we get from different pedals is really gratifying especially if we don't want to branch out and learn new music. I mean, there's 30,000 different tubescreamer variants out there, and I guarantee you the guy who spends 10 hours a week practicing sounds better through all of them than the guy who spends 10 hours a week working overtime or a second job so he can afford a new pedal.
But that's the thing - it's demand driven.
I wholeheartedly agree about the DIY stuff - I've kept most of my DIY pedals, and very few of my non-DIY things. Plus, you can get the xotic EP booster for $120 new or $90 used, but you can make the madbean fatpants with a mpf102 and a j201 (or even the 2n5457 which the xotic uses IIRC), or if you want the ultimate "echoplex" experience even a very expensive and hard to find TIS58 transistor, but with the mpf102/j201 it's like $50 for all of the parts and it's way more versatile and IMO sounds better (less subtle though, so that may not appeal to some players).
Same thing for the Analogman Stuff - if You don't want to drop $300+ and wait a year you can build yourself a KoT OD channel by swapping like 5 parts in any marshall bluesbreaker circuit - seriously, you're 2 caps, and 4 resistors and an op-amp away from the OD channel of the KoT. If you want the clean boost you can just hook up the clipping section to a switch, and if you want the "dist" sound just get some 1s1588 diodes (which are sooooooo much easier to find than the MA856 diodes).
Basically, any meat and potatoes pedal you want you can build yourself for like $30-50. Delay, it's a lot more expensive and a lot more difficult to put together. Same thing with certain types of modulation and pitch shifter effects. And things like the styromon digital smorgasbord or those wildly complicated multi-effects pedals obviously you can't build yourself because they're all SMD with complex microprocessors and stuff.
But if you aren't the edge from U2 most of what you need can be put together for cheap and in an hour or two.
I agree, kind of - yes there's a lot of "bad" sounding gear (my very first pedal was a DOD auto-wah/envelope filter, for example), but I don't think that it's driven by these greedy manufacturers and famous guys trying to trick us into getting rich.
I think it's because we as guitarists find it easier to play the same licks through a different pedal than it is to commit extra time to practice during the week. The different sounds and separated by only whiskers really we get from different pedals is really gratifying especially if we don't want to branch out and learn new music. I mean, there's 30,000 different tubescreamer variants out there, and I guarantee you the guy who spends 10 hours a week practicing sounds better through all of them than the guy who spends 10 hours a week working overtime or a second job so he can afford a new pedal.
But that's the thing - it's demand driven.
I wholeheartedly agree about the DIY stuff - I've kept most of my DIY pedals, and very few of my non-DIY things. Plus, you can get the xotic EP booster for $120 new or $90 used, but you can make the madbean fatpants with a mpf102 and a j201 (or even the 2n5457 which the xotic uses IIRC), or if you want the ultimate "echoplex" experience even a very expensive and hard to find TIS58 transistor, but with the mpf102/j201 it's like $50 for all of the parts and it's way more versatile and IMO sounds better (less subtle though, so that may not appeal to some players).
Same thing for the Analogman Stuff - if You don't want to drop $300+ and wait a year you can build yourself a KoT OD channel by swapping like 5 parts in any marshall bluesbreaker circuit - seriously, you're 2 caps, and 4 resistors and an op-amp away from the OD channel of the KoT. If you want the clean boost you can just hook up the clipping section to a switch, and if you want the "dist" sound just get some 1s1588 diodes (which are sooooooo much easier to find than the MA856 diodes).
Basically, any meat and potatoes pedal you want you can build yourself for like $30-50. Delay, it's a lot more expensive and a lot more difficult to put together. Same thing with certain types of modulation and pitch shifter effects. And things like the styromon digital smorgasbord or those wildly complicated multi-effects pedals obviously you can't build yourself because they're all SMD with complex microprocessors and stuff.
But if you aren't the edge from U2 most of what you need can be put together for cheap and in an hour or two.
Last edited:
Andrew Lamprecht
Minion of One
Phantasmagoria
watch where you point that sabre
Re: My tone stinks.
Try it through the 4x12 first if you can..you might not need the extra watts....
:headbang:
:laughing:
Try it through the 4x12 first if you can..you might not need the extra watts....
:headbang:
:laughing:
dominus
King Midas to Cheap Guitars
Re: My tone stinks.
We're spoiled for choice these days with tons of new products that blow away everything that was available when I was starting out, and the better stuff available then is now available dirt cheap used. I can put together a $200 rig that kills the $200 rig I had when I was a kid. Back then you could only get so far along. Now you just need to learn to use what's available.
We're spoiled for choice these days with tons of new products that blow away everything that was available when I was starting out, and the better stuff available then is now available dirt cheap used. I can put together a $200 rig that kills the $200 rig I had when I was a kid. Back then you could only get so far along. Now you just need to learn to use what's available.
Andrew Lamprecht
Minion of One
Chickenwings
Alnico 6/8
Chickenwings
Alnico 6/8
Re: My tone stinks.
oh yeah...and buy a marshall.
oh yeah...and buy a marshall.
crusty philtrum
Vintageologist
Re: My tone stinks.
" My tone stinks. "
Join a 1980s cover band.
" My tone stinks. "
Join a 1980s cover band.
everdrone
New member
Re: My tone stinks.
thats the spirit brutha! we are all here to help you, rooting for ya on your tone quest!
sometimes baby steps is the best way to go. If you have no patience, then sometimes you loose out. but with baby steps and a plan, you win!!! If you know a 212closed back cab will be in your future, save up for the perfect one that you see yourself keeping for at least 10 years. then buy that.
to hold yourself over, just join that 80s cover band :banana: j/k
thats the spirit brutha! we are all here to help you, rooting for ya on your tone quest!
sometimes baby steps is the best way to go. If you have no patience, then sometimes you loose out. but with baby steps and a plan, you win!!! If you know a 212closed back cab will be in your future, save up for the perfect one that you see yourself keeping for at least 10 years. then buy that.
to hold yourself over, just join that 80s cover band :banana: j/k
Re: My tone stinks.
Sorry to hear about your tone issue, that's never any fun. - I'd say try everything basic first:
Change your strings. How old are they? - big difference.,
- If your amp sounds different than it used to, maybe you need some new tubes?
Adjust your pickup height= HUGE impact on tone.
Re-arrange your room/amp; put amp in a corner, tilt it upwards. Hang up a couple of nice rugs or some Sonnex panels on your walls?
As others said, it's normal to adjust amp tone controls a bit between quiet playing and loud. - This is not necessarily the fault of the amp; our ears hear mids more efficiently, especially at low volumes, so we crank up lows and highs at low volumes. - if you then crank the volume w/o adjusting the tone, it will be relatively lacking in mids. - this can be true even if you prefer a scooped tone..
- Try playing without your graphic EQ. - Adjust the amp to get as close to your sound as you can get, then only use the graphic for subtle tweaks. It's easy to get carried away with a graphic, it tends to keep sounding better to boost bass & treble, & pull out mids, as you're adjusting, but then you come back later and it sounds odd.. also experiment with putting your EQ before the amp. (not necessarily better, but worth trying..)
- I agree that you may get some joy from an extension cabinet, maybe more than you think. Even a good, larger, closed-back 1x12 could make a world of difference.
No need to spend a ton of $ on the cab either. There are some builders selling very nice ones, at a good price on Ebay, or you could find a good one in a pawn shop. (add your own awesome speaker..)
One question: How loud are we talking? - There IS such a thing as just TOO DAMN LOUD. At really high volumes, your ears don't hear right, for instance; singers consistently sing flat if they monitor way too loud. Your ears actually distort, they have limits to what they can accurately reproduce.
- It only takes a few minutes for you to start losing treble response, (hopefully to return in a day, if you're young and haven't done this too often..)
- but there is a level at which we get permanent hearing loss in just one exposure.. (A cranked 100W Marshall with a 4x12 cab in a bedroom is FULLY capable of this..)
- then because we're not hearing treble, we crank the treble, which causes more treble loss etc. - I've met a few musicians who've pretty much borked their hearing this way..
- So be careful.
That said, if higher gain, harder rock is your main thing, MAYBE 15W is not enough for you? (Only MAYBE..) - You might consider a more powerful amp, not so you can play way louder, but for headroom, so you can play "kinda loud" more cleanly, "tighter."
- Power amp distortion is a wonderful thing, but you can get too much to get a good clean sound, or it can squish and round off your pre-amp drive too much for a good higher-gain sound.
- Conversely, if you get too big of an amp, you might be disappointed, because you can never turn it past "1" in your house, and you'll get NO power tube saturation..
So, see what you can get with new strings, adjusting pickups, and a big closed-back 1x12, play many hours, over several weeks, and tweak everything.
- If it still doesn't make you happy then maybe consider a 30w or 40W amp?
Good luck in your quest!
Sorry to hear about your tone issue, that's never any fun. - I'd say try everything basic first:
Change your strings. How old are they? - big difference.,
- If your amp sounds different than it used to, maybe you need some new tubes?
Adjust your pickup height= HUGE impact on tone.
Re-arrange your room/amp; put amp in a corner, tilt it upwards. Hang up a couple of nice rugs or some Sonnex panels on your walls?
As others said, it's normal to adjust amp tone controls a bit between quiet playing and loud. - This is not necessarily the fault of the amp; our ears hear mids more efficiently, especially at low volumes, so we crank up lows and highs at low volumes. - if you then crank the volume w/o adjusting the tone, it will be relatively lacking in mids. - this can be true even if you prefer a scooped tone..
- Try playing without your graphic EQ. - Adjust the amp to get as close to your sound as you can get, then only use the graphic for subtle tweaks. It's easy to get carried away with a graphic, it tends to keep sounding better to boost bass & treble, & pull out mids, as you're adjusting, but then you come back later and it sounds odd.. also experiment with putting your EQ before the amp. (not necessarily better, but worth trying..)
- I agree that you may get some joy from an extension cabinet, maybe more than you think. Even a good, larger, closed-back 1x12 could make a world of difference.
No need to spend a ton of $ on the cab either. There are some builders selling very nice ones, at a good price on Ebay, or you could find a good one in a pawn shop. (add your own awesome speaker..)
One question: How loud are we talking? - There IS such a thing as just TOO DAMN LOUD. At really high volumes, your ears don't hear right, for instance; singers consistently sing flat if they monitor way too loud. Your ears actually distort, they have limits to what they can accurately reproduce.
- It only takes a few minutes for you to start losing treble response, (hopefully to return in a day, if you're young and haven't done this too often..)
- but there is a level at which we get permanent hearing loss in just one exposure.. (A cranked 100W Marshall with a 4x12 cab in a bedroom is FULLY capable of this..)
- then because we're not hearing treble, we crank the treble, which causes more treble loss etc. - I've met a few musicians who've pretty much borked their hearing this way..
- So be careful.
That said, if higher gain, harder rock is your main thing, MAYBE 15W is not enough for you? (Only MAYBE..) - You might consider a more powerful amp, not so you can play way louder, but for headroom, so you can play "kinda loud" more cleanly, "tighter."
- Power amp distortion is a wonderful thing, but you can get too much to get a good clean sound, or it can squish and round off your pre-amp drive too much for a good higher-gain sound.
- Conversely, if you get too big of an amp, you might be disappointed, because you can never turn it past "1" in your house, and you'll get NO power tube saturation..
So, see what you can get with new strings, adjusting pickups, and a big closed-back 1x12, play many hours, over several weeks, and tweak everything.
- If it still doesn't make you happy then maybe consider a 30w or 40W amp?
Good luck in your quest!
Last edited:
jimijames
New member
Re: My tone stinks.
IMO a good amp is 95% of the equation... You don't need 100 watts or even 50 watts - The ac-30, Marshall 1974x, fender 5e3, fender deluxe reverb, etc. are all amazing "little" amps that sound unbelievable. (The ac-30 isn't exactly quiet but at 30 watts it qualifies for the sub-50 classification)
The best tones I've gotten have been through a cranked smaller amp goosed with a boost/od pedal. Just control the saturation with your technique and the volume knob and you're good to go.
IMO a good amp is 95% of the equation... You don't need 100 watts or even 50 watts - The ac-30, Marshall 1974x, fender 5e3, fender deluxe reverb, etc. are all amazing "little" amps that sound unbelievable. (The ac-30 isn't exactly quiet but at 30 watts it qualifies for the sub-50 classification)
The best tones I've gotten have been through a cranked smaller amp goosed with a boost/od pedal. Just control the saturation with your technique and the volume knob and you're good to go.
Re: My tone stinks.
I mostly agree, and you mentioned some wonderful classic amps. - No doubt about how awesome those amps are.
- But it depends on the sound your looking for.
- A blues or grungy rock player can sound awesome in a medium sized room with a Princeton on ten, but a hard-rock or metal, or "metal-ish" player, - or a clean twangy surf, or country player, would not be able to get his sound, even at low-ish volume. - It would be too rough and raggedy, to much break-up, too much power tube distortion, and speaker distortion, for certain styles..
Of course a blackface Fender Deluxe Reverb, @ 22W with a 12" speaker isn't quite "little" - it's definitely into the mid-power range.
-and as you said, 30W Vox isn't exactly "little" either..
I don't think most players need an 80W or 100W amp unless you're playing a stadium, (and in modern times just mike your Deluxe into the PA?)
- UNLESS you want to stay totally clean..
- a pedal-steel player could make good use of a Twin, on the same stage, and at the same volume as a guitar player with a Deluxe.
I personally love the sound of a Pro Reverb (40W, 2x12) on "2" or "3" - It's pretty clean, and just slightly, barely rounded..
- The OP HAS a "NICE" amp, but it's not quite working for him right now.
He may get there by just checking the usual things; strings, tubes, pickup height, tone controls..
- And I think there is an excellent chance he will get there with a closed-back extension cab (1x12, or 2x12, or 2 1x12s..)
BUT if that doesn't do it.. he MAY need a 30W or 40W amp..
Edit: IDK, Diego, are you only going to play at home? - A Deluxe Reverb can stay pretty clean at home.. - I wouldn't think a 15W amp would be that much different..
- If you're going to play with a drummer, or going to play out in medium sized rooms; probably get a 40W+ amp.
- If you're going to stay home, I bet 15W will be fine. Check all the things everybody mentioned, and get a closed back extension cab.
- You might also want to consider, in addition to a closed back cab, convert your existing cab to a semi-open cab. - A piece of 1x4 or two, attached to some cleats, across the opening, with a gap on top and bottom.. Be sure to match your speaker impedance to your amp.
I mostly agree, and you mentioned some wonderful classic amps. - No doubt about how awesome those amps are.
- But it depends on the sound your looking for.
- A blues or grungy rock player can sound awesome in a medium sized room with a Princeton on ten, but a hard-rock or metal, or "metal-ish" player, - or a clean twangy surf, or country player, would not be able to get his sound, even at low-ish volume. - It would be too rough and raggedy, to much break-up, too much power tube distortion, and speaker distortion, for certain styles..
Of course a blackface Fender Deluxe Reverb, @ 22W with a 12" speaker isn't quite "little" - it's definitely into the mid-power range.
-and as you said, 30W Vox isn't exactly "little" either..
I don't think most players need an 80W or 100W amp unless you're playing a stadium, (and in modern times just mike your Deluxe into the PA?)
- UNLESS you want to stay totally clean..
- a pedal-steel player could make good use of a Twin, on the same stage, and at the same volume as a guitar player with a Deluxe.
I personally love the sound of a Pro Reverb (40W, 2x12) on "2" or "3" - It's pretty clean, and just slightly, barely rounded..
- The OP HAS a "NICE" amp, but it's not quite working for him right now.
He may get there by just checking the usual things; strings, tubes, pickup height, tone controls..
- And I think there is an excellent chance he will get there with a closed-back extension cab (1x12, or 2x12, or 2 1x12s..)
BUT if that doesn't do it.. he MAY need a 30W or 40W amp..
Edit: IDK, Diego, are you only going to play at home? - A Deluxe Reverb can stay pretty clean at home.. - I wouldn't think a 15W amp would be that much different..
- If you're going to play with a drummer, or going to play out in medium sized rooms; probably get a 40W+ amp.
- If you're going to stay home, I bet 15W will be fine. Check all the things everybody mentioned, and get a closed back extension cab.
- You might also want to consider, in addition to a closed back cab, convert your existing cab to a semi-open cab. - A piece of 1x4 or two, attached to some cleats, across the opening, with a gap on top and bottom.. Be sure to match your speaker impedance to your amp.
Last edited:
