NAD: Vintage Fender Content

[Matt42]

My g/f and I just bought a pretty sweet little amp off of Craigslist. A 1962 Fender Tweed Champ 5F1 for $500. The tubes are new and the speaker has been changed out, but for $500, I'm not too concerned. A little judicious Ebay hunting should fix that if we want to. I'm pretty pumped. My g/f is going to go into town tomorrow to pick it up while I'm at work.

I'll post pictures sometime tomorrow evening.

 

[Matt42]

Re: NAD: Vintage Fender Content

First, pictures:



It's in OK shape, not great. The caps and transformer have been changed, and the speaker and tubes too. As I mentioned in the first post, not that concerned with that since it was pretty cheap. The speaker is a Pyle Driver, which I don't know much about, except that Derek Trucks used to use them. The preamp tube was switched to a 5751, but the seller included another tube, which I believe is a 12ax7. We are talking about getting some NOS tubes and an old Jensen speaker to make it a little more correct, but all in all, it sounds great, so that's not a priority.

I spent a couple of hours playing with it this evening, and I love it. I was setting it to about 5-6 and it was just singing with both my Tele and my Gretsch 5120. I played it clean, and with each of my pedals. The best was my MXR Custom Badass Overdrive (TS clone); when I kicked it on with my Tele's neck pickup (it's Duncan Designed Mini Humbucker), it pushed it into SRV kinda territory. I also liked my Mooer Hustle (OCD clone) and Flex Boost (AC Booster clone). The Flex Boost sounded great with the Gain knob dimed and the Bass pumped up a bit. I'm glad it gelled with my Flex Boost since I was thinking about taking that off of my board, now I have a reason to keep it on there! I was a touch disappointed with how it meshed the Joyo Sweet Baby and my MXR Carbon Copy. The Sweet Baby was OK, but it definitely sounds better through the Bassman and DC-5. I didn't like the Carbon Copy at all when plugged into the first input, but when plugged into the second, it was ok. Still not great, though. I think the Carbon Copy is most happy either in an effects loop or in front of a totally clean amp. It's a very touch sensitive amp, rolling back the volume on my guitar really cleans it up.

It also sounds great with my g/f's fiddle. I was a little surprised by that, since I thought it would overdrive too quickly, but her pickup is low enough output that putting it right around 5 provides just a hint of overdrive through the first input and none through the second.

Tomorrow I'll do a few clips with my g/f's Zoom H1, which until I get an interface is the best way I can record stuff.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: NAD: Vintage Fender Content

winning

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: NAD: Vintage Fender Content

Very cool!

Dump that Pyle ASAP...I'd bet the farm it's an 8 ohm not to mention it's a rather beefy speaker for a 3 watt amp...drop a 4 ohm alnico in there (my choice would be a Weber) and you're good to go!!!

 

[Matt42]

Re: NAD: Vintage Fender Content

Aren't Champs 5 watts?

The speaker will probably be the first thing we change out.

 

[Gone_Shootin]

Re: NAD: Vintage Fender Content

Congrats, nice score!

I didn't know Pyle made guitar speakers. All I ever knew them for was their car stereo stuff from the '90s when I was a teenager.

 

[DankStar]

Re: NAD: Vintage Fender Content

I'm obviously the ignorant one here so please don't be offended when I ask: what makes something like this go for even $500?

I'm basing this on - a new transformer is what, maybe $20-50? (based on a quick search I did - maybe I'm way off?). Caps are newer (and I wouldn't figure would add up to much), speaker is newer (and will be changed), tubes are newer. That leaves a box, a half dozen original resisters, and a couple of jacks & pots.

I personally think it looks cool as hell, and I'm sure I'd dig the sound too, just not seeing where the price is coming in.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: NAD: Vintage Fender Content

I sure wish a story book came with the amp, because it looks like it's seen a lot of action since 1962.

I agree about finding a more proper speaker, and maybe listening to some other tubes in it. I wouldn't clean or restore anything else on it. The wear'n'tear makes the amp what it is.
Well, I'd probably try and straighten out the upper left baffle area.....but that's it.

 

[Matt42]

Re: NAD: Vintage Fender Content

I'm obviously the ignorant one here so please don't be offended when I ask: what makes something like this go for even $500?

I'm basing this on - a new transformer is what, maybe $20-50? (based on a quick search I did - maybe I'm way off?). Caps are newer (and I wouldn't figure would add up to much), speaker is newer (and will be changed), tubes are newer. That leaves a box, a half dozen original resisters, and a couple of jacks & pots.

I personally think it looks cool as hell, and I'm sure I'd dig the sound too, just not seeing where the price is coming in.

My g/f did some more research last night and discovered that only a few caps had been changed, and they were not the "important" ones, whatever that means. And on an almost 52 year old amp, stuff is going to go bad and need to be swapped out. The box, whichever original caps, the resistors and original wiring are what give it this value. It's still a handwired amp. We did a lot of ebay hunting before buying and came to the conclusion that even with the replacement parts, other 5f1's were going in the $750-800 range.

I sure wish a story book came with the amp, because it looks like it's seen a lot of action since 1962.

I agree about finding a more proper speaker, and maybe listening to some other tubes in it. I wouldn't clean or restore anything else on it. The wear'n'tear makes the amp what it is.
Well, I'd probably try and straighten out the upper left baffle area.....but that's it.

I was wondering about that upper left baffle area. Is that something that's fairly easy to straighten out?

I'll be plugging the 12ax7 in today to try it against the 5751. It should be gainier right? I have pretty much no experience with dramatic tube swapping.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: NAD: Vintage Fender Content

Aren't Champs 5 watts?

The speaker will probably be the first thing we change out.

5 watts...on the best of days! Most of them are in the 3 or so range...not that there is much difference between 3 and 5 watts!

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: NAD: Vintage Fender Content

I'm obviously the ignorant one here so please don't be offended when I ask: what makes something like this go for even $500?

I'm basing this on - a new transformer is what, maybe $20-50? (based on a quick search I did - maybe I'm way off?). Caps are newer (and I wouldn't figure would add up to much), speaker is newer (and will be changed), tubes are newer. That leaves a box, a half dozen original resisters, and a couple of jacks & pots.

I personally think it looks cool as hell, and I'm sure I'd dig the sound too, just not seeing where the price is coming in.

It's a vintage tweed Fender amp.

A modern day clone if a tweed Champ is $600-700 a pop...this is the amp the clones are clones of! I think 5 bills is a deal.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: NAD: Vintage Fender Content

My g/f did some more research last night and discovered that only a few caps had been changed, and they were not the "important" ones, whatever that means. And on an almost 52 year old amp, stuff is going to go bad and need to be swapped out. The box, whichever original caps, the resistors and original wiring are what give it this value. It's still a handwired amp. We did a lot of ebay hunting before buying and came to the conclusion that even with the replacement parts, other 5f1's were going in the $750-800 range.



I was wondering about that upper left baffle area. Is that something that's fairly easy to straighten out?

I'll be plugging the 12ax7 in today to try it against the 5751. It should be gainier right? I have pretty much no experience with dramatic tube swapping.

Don't bother "fixing" any of the tweed, grill cloth or anything else...just leave it as-is.

Stock premap tube is a 12AX7...a 5751 would lower the gain. If you're asking for opinions go with the 12AX7.

Like I said above, if you put a proper 4 ohm, alnico speaker in it you could call it done!

 

[Matt42]

Re: NAD: Vintage Fender Content

Update: so the electrolytic/filter caps were the ones changed, the signal/tone capacitors are still original.

 

[DankStar]

Re: NAD: Vintage Fender Content

Thanks for the explanations. Didn't realize what new ones were going for either.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: NAD: Vintage Fender Content

Update: so the electrolytic/filter caps were the ones changed, the signal/tone capacitors are still original.

Right...that's a good thing!

That little amp is ready to rock for another 52 years!

You'll be surprised what a new speaker will do for it but after that no need to turn a screw on it!

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: NAD: Vintage Fender Content

Thanks for the explanations. Didn't realize what new ones were going for either.

Right on...when Fender was doing a reissue they were even more than the 6 bills you'll drop on a clone.

 

[Sprinter]

Re: NAD: Vintage Fender Content

Nice amp! I agree with the others that recommend replacing the speaker. I have a '56 Princeton that has a Jensen replacement speaker in it. I think it sounds good. Either a Jensen or a Weber will work well in your amp.

 

[Matt42]

Re: NAD: Vintage Fender Content

I put the Tung Sol 12AX7 in today for a bit, I didn't like it as much as the 5751, honestly. It was a lot more "in your face", I liked the subtle edge to the 5751, it felt a little more dynamic. I'm going to try the 12ax7 again after we get a new speaker put in. We're ordering a 4 ohm alnico Weber for it.

The more I play with this thing, the more I love it. I just can't believe how much sound comes out this tiny little box. It's awesome.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: NAD: Vintage Fender Content

If you're concerned about the $500, write Billy Gibbons or Joe Walsh's signature in it, and it'll be worth a lot more!
hahaha J/K!!

 

[jimijames]

Re: NAD: Vintage Fender Content

IME, the 5751 sounds better in every amp I've used it in vs. the 12ax7. For clean sounds, at least.

But I figure a vintage fender is the kind of amp you'd use for clean sounds exclusively, at any rate.

In the few tube amps I've played/owned (both 18w marshall clones), the lower gain preamp tubes (5751, 12ay7, 12at7, etc.) sound very much better for cleans, and when you do finally get the power tubes to clip, better for the O/D sounds I use as well.

But! The 12ax7 is most popular for a reason. I don't go for any heavily saturated tones. AC/DC and Zeppelin are about the most "distorted" I go, in terms of amp. I do occasionally play heavier stuff, but it's all at that general distortion level. I just don't use recto levels of gain.