Narrowing Down Pickups - Drop C Project Guitar
- Thread starter LostTheTone
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BeKindRewind
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Re: Narrowing Down Pickups - Drop C Project Guitar
i've had great results with the Invader in drop C, i'm gonna vote for that or the Distortion. also had great results with EMG 81 in drop C
i've had great results with the Invader in drop C, i'm gonna vote for that or the Distortion. also had great results with EMG 81 in drop C
bigcupholder
New member
Re: Narrowing Down Pickups - Drop C Project Guitar
None of the mainstream options are bad, just different. Most of the greatest guitar tones ever recorded were done with Seymour Duncan or Dimarzio pickups, not insanely expensive boutique stuff.
I still recommend the Distortion. The bass on the JB might be too loose for drop C and the EMG 81 can be polarizing. Neither would be a disappointment, but I think you'd like the Distortion more. The Distortion could convincingly cover every type of metal. If your goal is metal, without any more specific requirements, the Distortion is the easy answer.
The Distortion also kicks ass in a Les Paul btw, should you ever move it there.
Sent from my SM-G970W using Tapatalk
None of the mainstream options are bad, just different. Most of the greatest guitar tones ever recorded were done with Seymour Duncan or Dimarzio pickups, not insanely expensive boutique stuff.
I still recommend the Distortion. The bass on the JB might be too loose for drop C and the EMG 81 can be polarizing. Neither would be a disappointment, but I think you'd like the Distortion more. The Distortion could convincingly cover every type of metal. If your goal is metal, without any more specific requirements, the Distortion is the easy answer.
The Distortion also kicks ass in a Les Paul btw, should you ever move it there.
Sent from my SM-G970W using Tapatalk
LostTheTone
New member
Re: Narrowing Down Pickups - Drop C Project Guitar
To wrap this thread up - I have bitten the bullet and bought a Distortion.
After a long night of trying, I couldn't find anyone who said this was a bad idea just that perhaps others might be slightly more optimal. Good enough for me.
Another factor was that, as a mainstream pickup, people actually have Distortions in stock to buy off the shelf. Not the greatest way to make decisions, but I haven't found anyone who has Black Winter of Nazgul TBs on anything other than a "special order only" basis. Ditto for EMG-81s; if I want a black chrome one then I pay more and estimated delivery is 30 days or more. This is my lockdown project, and I want to play it before people start growling at me for working from home.
Also the Distortion TB was, frankly, outrageously priced at £69, half of what BKP would charge, and more than a third cheaper than a Black Winter or Nazgul. I can hear the difference between the more expensive ones and the Distortion, but just "different" not necessarily better. The Distortion sounds great and doesn't burn a hole in my pocket, and as mentioned I can get more mile out of it if I ever want to change it out.
Sounds pretty good to me.
If anyone is interested, my moment of clarity came on browsing a store's webshop, looking to see if they even listed BW Trembuckers. They did, but on the same page they had two pickup EMG sets listed for not that much more than the single BW. I'm not actually in the market for a Het-Set or matched 81/85 set at the moment (I just put an invader in my explorer, as you recall) but it's a bit off putting to see one single pickup in a similar price range, especially when it is "different not better".
So, the decision is made, and now I can also bank £30 quid into my audio interface fund. Not a bad day all told.
And now I am going to my parent's garage to spray the clearcoat onto my body and complete (ish - I will need black tuners at some point) the fitting and finishing. Should be cured just in time for the Distortion to be delivered.
To wrap this thread up - I have bitten the bullet and bought a Distortion.
After a long night of trying, I couldn't find anyone who said this was a bad idea just that perhaps others might be slightly more optimal. Good enough for me.
Another factor was that, as a mainstream pickup, people actually have Distortions in stock to buy off the shelf. Not the greatest way to make decisions, but I haven't found anyone who has Black Winter of Nazgul TBs on anything other than a "special order only" basis. Ditto for EMG-81s; if I want a black chrome one then I pay more and estimated delivery is 30 days or more. This is my lockdown project, and I want to play it before people start growling at me for working from home.
Also the Distortion TB was, frankly, outrageously priced at £69, half of what BKP would charge, and more than a third cheaper than a Black Winter or Nazgul. I can hear the difference between the more expensive ones and the Distortion, but just "different" not necessarily better. The Distortion sounds great and doesn't burn a hole in my pocket, and as mentioned I can get more mile out of it if I ever want to change it out.
Sounds pretty good to me.
If anyone is interested, my moment of clarity came on browsing a store's webshop, looking to see if they even listed BW Trembuckers. They did, but on the same page they had two pickup EMG sets listed for not that much more than the single BW. I'm not actually in the market for a Het-Set or matched 81/85 set at the moment (I just put an invader in my explorer, as you recall) but it's a bit off putting to see one single pickup in a similar price range, especially when it is "different not better".
So, the decision is made, and now I can also bank £30 quid into my audio interface fund. Not a bad day all told.
And now I am going to my parent's garage to spray the clearcoat onto my body and complete (ish - I will need black tuners at some point) the fitting and finishing. Should be cured just in time for the Distortion to be delivered.
BleedingFingertips
New member
Re: Narrowing Down Pickups - Drop C Project Guitar
Keep in mind that pickup comparisons like the one from Keith Merrow only show you the differences within one setup (guitar, amp, eq etc.). If "modern" expensive pickups sound better in them maybe it's because SD wants them to sound better after all.
That being said, I think Distortion will work great in your guitar. Congratulations on your purchase.
Keep in mind that pickup comparisons like the one from Keith Merrow only show you the differences within one setup (guitar, amp, eq etc.). If "modern" expensive pickups sound better in them maybe it's because SD wants them to sound better after all.
That being said, I think Distortion will work great in your guitar. Congratulations on your purchase.
LostTheTone
New member
Re: Narrowing Down Pickups - Drop C Project Guitar
I think there is definitely a lot of truth to quietly ensuring the newer (to me anyway - I've been out of the loop a long time!) pickups sound great. No-one launches a product and says "Well, the old one is everything you want, but you people have short attention spans so here is a new name!"
Of course set up does matter a lot. If you tweak for long enough you can make most anything sound solid, but I asked myself if the Distortion is going to be working with me or against me; could I make a good sound with it or not?
Now, I don't know if it my "perfect" pickup, in part because I don't really know what my perfect sound is. But it seems that I can make this one sound good. I definitely don't think I would appreciate the boosted upper mids on the Nazgul - It'd sound "good", but not necessarily more or less perfect for what I want.
When I started the woodworking side of this projects (6ish weeks ago - sanding through a finish is hard man) I was convinced that I was going to put an Aftermath into this guitar. I'm sure it would have sounded good too. But as you've seen I have slowly talked myself down to something that "just works".
It has been a few weeks since I put an invader in my explorer, replacing the non-f-spaced EMG-HZ (teenage me did not make wise pickup decisions). In that case I dropped the pick up in, said " That sounds great" and didn't even touch the dials. In time I have played around a little. But just having a much more appropriate pickup was enough to sound good. Something else might be better, but it sounded good. It still does. I'm keeping it.
I think I'm going to have a similar experience here. Not a lot of tweaking, and sounding good.
I think there is definitely a lot of truth to quietly ensuring the newer (to me anyway - I've been out of the loop a long time!) pickups sound great. No-one launches a product and says "Well, the old one is everything you want, but you people have short attention spans so here is a new name!"
Of course set up does matter a lot. If you tweak for long enough you can make most anything sound solid, but I asked myself if the Distortion is going to be working with me or against me; could I make a good sound with it or not?
Now, I don't know if it my "perfect" pickup, in part because I don't really know what my perfect sound is. But it seems that I can make this one sound good. I definitely don't think I would appreciate the boosted upper mids on the Nazgul - It'd sound "good", but not necessarily more or less perfect for what I want.
When I started the woodworking side of this projects (6ish weeks ago - sanding through a finish is hard man) I was convinced that I was going to put an Aftermath into this guitar. I'm sure it would have sounded good too. But as you've seen I have slowly talked myself down to something that "just works".
It has been a few weeks since I put an invader in my explorer, replacing the non-f-spaced EMG-HZ (teenage me did not make wise pickup decisions). In that case I dropped the pick up in, said " That sounds great" and didn't even touch the dials. In time I have played around a little. But just having a much more appropriate pickup was enough to sound good. Something else might be better, but it sounded good. It still does. I'm keeping it.
I think I'm going to have a similar experience here. Not a lot of tweaking, and sounding good.
LostTheTone
New member
Re: Narrowing Down Pickups - Drop C Project Guitar
Your wish is my command - The body is still hanging up to dry at my parents, so after will have to wait a little, but I have found a good before shot for what I was working with.
This guitar is a Sunn Mustang, which I obtained third hand in about 2009 due to some circumstances involving a friend of mine's house mate skipping out on the rent.
Someone (not me!) made the "very punk" alterations, and I kept it as a "one day I'll do it" project.
Here is what it looked like before I started work:
As you can imagine the refinishing is almost as important as the new electronics.
The new finish is "stealth bomber black" with satin top coat, which matches the Matt black new pickguard. I will have to figure out how to tone down the glossy finish on the black bridge and jackplate because it doesn't quite fit ATM.
"After" pictures to follow!
Your wish is my command - The body is still hanging up to dry at my parents, so after will have to wait a little, but I have found a good before shot for what I was working with.
This guitar is a Sunn Mustang, which I obtained third hand in about 2009 due to some circumstances involving a friend of mine's house mate skipping out on the rent.
Someone (not me!) made the "very punk" alterations, and I kept it as a "one day I'll do it" project.
Here is what it looked like before I started work:
As you can imagine the refinishing is almost as important as the new electronics.
The new finish is "stealth bomber black" with satin top coat, which matches the Matt black new pickguard. I will have to figure out how to tone down the glossy finish on the black bridge and jackplate because it doesn't quite fit ATM.
"After" pictures to follow!
LostTheTone
New member
Re: Narrowing Down Pickups - Drop C Project Guitar
Alas I still can't show you the finished thing - I still have a good deal of wet sanding to do to get the finish smooth, but I can at least show you where I am right now:
The new pickup has arrived too, and after a serious struggle I managed to persuade solder to stick to the pot so that also has been fitted. I am kinda frustrated that I can see how she actually plays, but c'est la vie. I will get there!
Alas I still can't show you the finished thing - I still have a good deal of wet sanding to do to get the finish smooth, but I can at least show you where I am right now:
The new pickup has arrived too, and after a serious struggle I managed to persuade solder to stick to the pot so that also has been fitted. I am kinda frustrated that I can see how she actually plays, but c'est la vie. I will get there!
bigcupholder
New member
Re: Narrowing Down Pickups - Drop C Project Guitar
The guitar is looking good!
Sent from my SM-G970W using Tapatalk
For future reference, try scuffing up the back of the pot if the solder isn't sticking to it.Alas I still can't show you the finished thing - I still have a good deal of wet sanding to do to get the finish smooth, but I can at least show you where I am right now:
The new pickup has arrived too, and after a serious struggle I managed to persuade solder to stick to the pot so that also has been fitted. I am kinda frustrated that I can see how she actually plays, but c'est la vie. I will get there!
The guitar is looking good!
Sent from my SM-G970W using Tapatalk
LostTheTone
New member
Re: Narrowing Down Pickups - Drop C Project Guitar
Man I loathe soldering pots - I have done a bit better with this one than previous soldering (I bought a fresh pot, thank God) but it still took forever to convince ground wires to stick to the case. How do we still live in an age where everything is just "nah it's fine solder the bare wire to this flat hunk of metal, no big deal".
Man I loathe soldering pots - I have done a bit better with this one than previous soldering (I bought a fresh pot, thank God) but it still took forever to convince ground wires to stick to the case. How do we still live in an age where everything is just "nah it's fine solder the bare wire to this flat hunk of metal, no big deal".
LostTheTone
New member
Re: Narrowing Down Pickups - Drop C Project Guitar
I have heard that Lace pickups are like perfectly flat EQ - So not distinctive at all, and designed so that you can tweak them the maximum amount in your pedals and such?
I was slightly surprised to find that something called the DeathBucker has that kind of rep for mucho versatility.
I have heard that Lace pickups are like perfectly flat EQ - So not distinctive at all, and designed so that you can tweak them the maximum amount in your pedals and such?
I was slightly surprised to find that something called the DeathBucker has that kind of rep for mucho versatility.
bigcupholder
New member
Re: Narrowing Down Pickups - Drop C Project Guitar
Yeah, it sucks that pickup companies haven't adopted a universal quick-connect setup. I'd bet SD is big enough to force that change if their OEM partners would allow it (i.e. if guitars with SD stock would all switch). Probably too much upfront cost to warrant the risk it doesn't catch on.
A good soldering iron definitely helps though. The hotter it is, the less likely you are to burn out the pot actually, because you can solder so much faster.
Sent from my SM-G970W using Tapatalk
Yeah, it sucks that pickup companies haven't adopted a universal quick-connect setup. I'd bet SD is big enough to force that change if their OEM partners would allow it (i.e. if guitars with SD stock would all switch). Probably too much upfront cost to warrant the risk it doesn't catch on.
A good soldering iron definitely helps though. The hotter it is, the less likely you are to burn out the pot actually, because you can solder so much faster.
Sent from my SM-G970W using Tapatalk
LostTheTone
New member
Re: Narrowing Down Pickups - Drop C Project Guitar
When I was still considering an EMG81 a legitimate part of my thinking was "I won't have to solder the damn thing together".
Honestly, I would just be happy if some enterprising component maker sold pots that had a larger ring terminal attached to the case - that way you can have something to hold the wires in place.
That's probably why no pickup companies have tried to force the issue. It's a problem with pots, not with pickups.
When I was still considering an EMG81 a legitimate part of my thinking was "I won't have to solder the damn thing together".
Honestly, I would just be happy if some enterprising component maker sold pots that had a larger ring terminal attached to the case - that way you can have something to hold the wires in place.
That's probably why no pickup companies have tried to force the issue. It's a problem with pots, not with pickups.
Re: Narrowing Down Pickups - Drop C Project Guitar
This.
I found myself cranking things up specifically for the pot grounding work because it was taking so long to heat that EVERYTHING on the pot was getting hot. Bumping the heat up allowed one spot to heat up enough to get solder to stick without heating up the rest too much at all.
If you're already at max it is what it is, but a good variable iron that gets really hot can definitely make this easier/faster.
This.
I found myself cranking things up specifically for the pot grounding work because it was taking so long to heat that EVERYTHING on the pot was getting hot. Bumping the heat up allowed one spot to heat up enough to get solder to stick without heating up the rest too much at all.
If you're already at max it is what it is, but a good variable iron that gets really hot can definitely make this easier/faster.
LostTheTone
New member
Re: Narrowing Down Pickups - Drop C Project Guitar
So, after some resoldering that feels like it cost me 15 years of my life, I have gotten this damn guitar to actually work. First it just flat out did not work. Then I re-soldered it, and it worked, but it hummed like crazy. Finally, after acquiring some new burns, exchanging every piece of wire for a new bit, whelp... She makes guitar noises.
And well, some damn good noises.
The Distortion is definitely noice and toight at the bottom end, and it chugs like an absolute beauty. I just plugged it into my existing settings, and the difference it pretty clear. The old settings feel over-gained, and too bass heavy. Just the new pickup has sustain for absolutely days, and even when the bass is blowing my ears off it's still tight and well defined. The only criticism is that it's a little noisy compared to the stock (potentially shonky wiring?). I had turn the noise gate up just a twinge, but that's the worst of it.
I will post some glamour shots tomorrow since this project has finally (thankfully) concluded. I regret everything. But at least this guitar will sound good eh?
So, after some resoldering that feels like it cost me 15 years of my life, I have gotten this damn guitar to actually work. First it just flat out did not work. Then I re-soldered it, and it worked, but it hummed like crazy. Finally, after acquiring some new burns, exchanging every piece of wire for a new bit, whelp... She makes guitar noises.
And well, some damn good noises.
The Distortion is definitely noice and toight at the bottom end, and it chugs like an absolute beauty. I just plugged it into my existing settings, and the difference it pretty clear. The old settings feel over-gained, and too bass heavy. Just the new pickup has sustain for absolutely days, and even when the bass is blowing my ears off it's still tight and well defined. The only criticism is that it's a little noisy compared to the stock (potentially shonky wiring?). I had turn the noise gate up just a twinge, but that's the worst of it.
I will post some glamour shots tomorrow since this project has finally (thankfully) concluded. I regret everything. But at least this guitar will sound good eh?
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