neck pickup to go with L500XL in epi explorer for beginner

[FATMAN]

HELLO to everyone on the SD Forums

I am 17 and have been playing guitar for about a year now, I started with a cort strat imitation, and now I'm using an epiphone gothic '58 explorer (stop bar version) its comes by default with alnico classic humbuckers, which I am looking to replace I have ordered a bill Lawrence l500xl (Bill and Becky) and I need some advice from you guys of what to put in the neck. I mostly play heavy metal (slayer/megadeth/pantera/metallica/anthrax) sorta stuff, and from my research I have found that good old DIME used the main combo of a l500xl and either a SD '59 or a dimarzio super distortion.

is this correct and what combo would best work for a beginner such as myself in my guitar playing the sort of music I play?

Thank you for the help guys, for reference I'm using a peavey vypyr 30 and I want a little bit of that DIME sort of tone to be incorporated in the tone I have made for my self... if that makes sense

 

[Despair]

Re: neck pickup to go with L500XL in epi explorer for beginner

Dimebag did use a '59 the most in the neck, but he did odd things like install it with studs towards neck & remove all the screw poles or wire it split, seems like he really wanted a single coil in the neck, in at least some of his guitars.

A '59n would probably be just fine, or you might look at a Wilde [Bill & Becky] L-500C (L-500R if you want it a bit hotter) or maybe an L-90 if you want a bit more of a P-90 neck tone.

If you find the '59 is too thick in the neck, the first place to start is to use the pickup height adjustment screws and lower the bass side of the pickup. Then raise the polepiece screws under the bass strings to keep the string balance right.

If that isn't sufficient, I'd look into getting replacement polepiece screws (Addiction FX on e-bay carries a variety). The stock screws are 0.75" fillisters. If you replace the 3 under the bass strings with 0.5" hex heads (can stick with silver finish), that'll tighten things considerably.

You could also search for Artie's demud mod on this forum, which is cheaper but involves some soldering, upside is parts are more readily available locally.

 

[Despair]

Re: neck pickup to go with L500XL in epi explorer for beginner

Oh, and for a wilder idea, you might look at a P-Rails neck, with a Triple-Shot ring to allow access to all the modes.

In parallel it does a pretty good low output humbucker sound, series it's a fat hot humbucker. If you split to rail it's a single coilish sound, and some feel that it's P-90 mode is the best option on the pickup.

If you just want the same options Dime had, I'd just go with the '59n.

 

[FATMAN]

Re: neck pickup to go with L500XL in epi explorer for beginner

thank you for the help, i found a '59n with short legs that would fit in my epi explorer, ill do some research on the different mods and probably come back another time for help with that. also one more question, i wont be able to order the '59 for another week or two due to being almost broke, so in the mean time i will be using the l500xl with the alnico classic in the neck, would this work, or would there be issues with different output etc? also i herd some where that DIME used to mount the l500xl backwards so it had a chunkier sound, is this true/worth doing?

thanks

EDIT: probably looking for the neck to be used for cleaner tones for intros etc. aiming for more of a blues sorta tone for the neck pickup

 

[Despair]

Re: neck pickup to go with L500XL in epi explorer for beginner

Seems unlikely to me that flipping the L-500XL around would make a difference in tone, given the coils are supposed to be identical. The usual reason for pickups sounding different when flipped is due to differences in the coil. Most humbuckers have slugs in one coil and screws in the other, with the slugs picking up a lot more bass & midrange, and the screws more high frequencies. Also, some even have different wire in the different coils (Dual Resonance or Hybrid pickups), those tend to have particularly noticable differences when flipped.

Dime may have had something odd with his bridge pickup, like mismatched coils or a partial short or other damage to one coil, which made flipping it make a real difference. But even sharp people can fool themselves on audio [Did he put new strings on after loosening them to flip the pickup? Tune to a slightly different pitch, back before digital tuners? Impossible to say...]

Flipping a standard studs & screws pickup like the '59 can have much more noticable an impact. In the neck slot, having the studs towards the neck makes it thicker and emphasizes midrange. Fun for soloing, but usually compromises cleans a bit, and can get too fat for chord work.

I'd definitely try the Alnico Classic first. It appears to be an A2 pickup, it may be too mellow, not enough high end and too mid-focused, compared to the L-500XL. But it may be a nice contrast, too. That sort of thing tends to depend a lot on the player's tastes.

If the Alnico Classic is too quiet, first step is to try raising the whole pickup closer to the strings. Second step, especially if it's not bright enough, is to raise the screw polepieces.

Even if the Alnico Classic can't be made to work, at least you'll know you didn't waste money without cause.

 

[speed2dirt]

Re: neck pickup to go with L500XL in epi explorer for beginner

Lawrence L-600 in the neck. Becky or Shannon can tell you which one will match best with the L-500XL.

 

[Despair]

Re: neck pickup to go with L500XL in epi explorer for beginner

speed2dirt's post would have been more helpful with an explanation of why... But it is another good option. L-600 gets described thus: "Bill's lower inductances -- 1.6H and 2.4H -- are large size humbuckers which can sound more like a "stratty" single coil with 30% more output and are available with 2 conductor wiring."

And you can even get it with a chrome housing to match your bridge pickup.

 

[speed2dirt]

Re: neck pickup to go with L500XL in epi explorer for beginner

True, I should have explained. Their website describes it perfectly though. The two L-450s I had (which are now rehoused and labeled L-600) sound very much like a single coil. The cleans they produce just shimmer & sparkle. At the same time, they balance really well with the high-output L-500XL. To me, that combo was killer due to its extreme versatility.

 

[FATMAN]

Re: neck pickup to go with L500XL in epi explorer for beginner

wow finally some useful people on forums and no raging or messages written entirely in caps lock, you guys have been very helpful, thank you, i will have a look at the L-600 as well and see what it is like compared to the '59, bill lawrence (wilde usa) are very reasonably priced so if i have enough cash i might get both the L600 and the '59 and experiment to see which one best suites me. The bridge alnico sounds half decent but the neck sounds pretty bad, it is extremely muddy, what adjustments might help?

i currently have plastic pickup covers over both alnico's, that must be having an effect, right? i can remove them if i need to. although i never compared the sound before and after i put them on so i don't really know the effect they have had.

 

[Empty Pockets]

Re: neck pickup to go with L500XL in epi explorer for beginner

i don't want to sound condescending or piss on your parade but i think that if you've only been playing for a year then you shouldn't worry about your pickups at all.

the differences in tone are so subtle from one set of pickups to the next that i think they should be the last thing a guitarist looks at to fine-tune his tone...not the first thing he looks at to define his sound.

frankly, lots of pickups would match up well with a Dimebucker or a 500...you won't know which one you want to use unless you have developed some sort of playing style already...

again i'm not trying to ruin your fun, i'm trying to save you a lot of time, money and frustration -- soldering and un-soldering a bunch of humbuckers and wondering why your tone isn't changing much. You'll be much better off as a player if you spend that time, money and frustration learning to play!

 

[FATMAN]

Re: neck pickup to go with L500XL in epi explorer for beginner

don't worry I'm not offended, its constructive criticism, if the pickups only make a small difference, then whats the best thing to use to forge my sound?

also the main purpose of this is not just to get a "better" sound but i believe its part of the learning process that comes with learning guitar, i want to have an understanding of how to play it but i also want an understanding of how it works and the best way to do that is by researching, asking question on forums like this and getting involved by experimenting with things like pickups myself. it is all part of the learning process.

 

[Empty Pockets]

Re: neck pickup to go with L500XL in epi explorer for beginner

the best thing to focus on is your chops :smokin:

the amp you plug into has the biggest impact on your tone...by the time you've experimented with a couple different sets of humbuckers (assuming 2 humbuckers cost about $100) you could've saved up and gotten yourself into a decent tube amplifier, y'know?

imagine plugging a stock Squier Bullet into a wall of vintage Marshall stacks...now imagine plugging a vintage Les Paul or Steve Vai's favorite JEM or something into a Digitech RP50 plugged into broken computer monitors and you'll kind of get what i'm saying :smokin:

after the amp is the guitar...that Epiphone isn't a bad one but after you get a good amp i'd spend a lot of time at guitar shops playing EVERYTHING...mind wide opened and letting your ears and hands tell you which one is your favorite. Once you've got that guitar, worry about what pickups you wana put into it to make it sound better with your amp.

like i said...pickups are for fine-tuning your sound...you change pickups if your guitar feels good and your amp is dialed in but you want just a notch less highs and more mids or something...in all honesty the impact of a pickup has more to do with the feel and response of a guitar than the final recorded tone.

 

[FATMAN]

Re: neck pickup to go with L500XL in epi explorer for beginner

thanks for the advice, i get what you are saying but a decent tube amp is 1500AUD plus and I'm far off having that sorta cash, i jsut upgraded form a laney lx12 to a peavy vypyr 30 so i am a way off getting a decent tube amp.

 

[Despair]

Re: neck pickup to go with L500XL in epi explorer for beginner

Pickups aren't always such a small detail, there can be a pretty huge tone and feel difference that directly impacts playing style between a low output A2 of conventional construction and a high output A5 blade humbucker.

And a lot of people just don't get along with A2 neck humbuckers, especially in combination with a bright bridge pickup. I suspect the reason you find your neck pickup muddy is that it's a cheap A2. A lot of people don't care for most of Gibson's & Epi's A2 neck pickups.

As far as adjusting it, same thing I mentioned for controlling bass on the '59. Mud and boom are caused by excess bass and lower mids. Use the pickup height adjustment screws and lower the bass side of the pickup. Then raise the polepiece screws under the bass strings to keep the string balance right.


Plastic pickup covers have a slight impact on tone, often so small it's inaudible. However, people often accidentally change the pickup height when they install covers, which does have a much more noticable effect.

 

[andrew11]

neck pickup to go with L500XL in epi explorer for beginner

I tend to have to agree with the guys about the amp. A good amp is the main part of your sound. I don't know where u live but here in Toronto u can get a decent tube amp for $400 used. In my first year of playing I went out and spent $300 on a Kerry king set on EMGs because I wanted to sound like slayer but in the end I still sounded like sh#t. I do agree with u that it's part of learning your gear and it's fun to experiment I'm still changing pickups because I enjoy the research and learning about new pickups. So if u enjoy trying new pickups do it in the end it's what makes u happy. Since u are a dime fan have u checked out the Dean dimetime pickup? U can find info at deanguitars.com

 

[Despair]

Re: neck pickup to go with L500XL in epi explorer for beginner

Of course the amp is the main part of the sound. But if the pickups are flat out wrong for the task, you'll never get there.

Outside of some unusual pickup construction like the El Diablo, A2 is pretty rare in metal humbuckers. They just don't have the tight bass or punch that a metal guitarist wants. Sure, you can argue he picked the wrong guitar, but it's usually cheaper to replace the pickups than to buy a whole new guitar to fix a pickup issue. Blues enthusiasts often don't get along with most ceramic magnet pickups.

And the Vypyr really isn't that bad sounding. Pantera was mostly Randall solid state amps, and Dimebag got great rhythm tones that way (lead tones... not so much. Decent for solid state, often fit the song, but could have been better in many cases. But he carried it with his playing). There's a lot of death and thrash bands that do solid state rhythms and sound awesome.

Any old used tube amp wont necessarily be an improvement, and depending on where in Australia he is, they vary from horrifically expensive to unavailable locally, even used. If he was heavy into blues or AC/DC, it'd be much more worth the cost, and the touch response of tubes gets insanely more important.

I will note magnet swapping is a cheap way to fix the A2 problem, but magnets tend to be a bit pricy due to local unavailability and shipping/bureacracy in AU as well...