Need help isolating V30 mid-spike freqs...

[Red_Label]

Hi all.

I just got a black-grill Bogner oversize 2X12 cab loaded with V30s today. Had one just a few months ago but sold it because it didn't match (was the wheat color) my XTC Classic.

Also, I don't care for the sound of V30s. So ultimately, I'd like to replace those with speakers more like the vintage G12-30s in my Bogner 4X12. They are SO sweet, crunchy, thick, chunky, 3D, etc. I've been gigging those in various different 4X12 cabs since '91.

In the meantime, I've setup an A/B rig consisting of my XTC and Bogner 4X12 on one side, and my Eleven Rack, Velocity power amp, and Bogner 2X12 on the other. My goal is to use the parametric EQ in the Eleven Rack to dial-in a tone that's as close to the real Bogner amp and 4X12 as I can. So I think it would help if I could really get a good handle on what those obnoxious frequencies that the V30 is noted for, so I can dial them out. I briefly played with it tonight, but need to spend more time because I really haven't discovered what they are yet.

Anyone got a general idea about those frequencies? Or any other helpful advice (besides getting new speakers -- for the time being)? Thanks!

 

[Koreth]

Re: Need help isolating V30 mid-spike freqs...

Judging by the frequency response chart posted on the Celestion website, I'd hazard a guess that it is between 1.5kHz and 5kHz, with the worst of it between 2kHz and 4kHz. Play with an EQ in that range and see what you can find.

 

[xxxplorer]

Re: Need help isolating V30 mid-spike freqs...

I'd keep it the way it is and exploit the differences and maybe do a stereo rig. A bright cutting side and a thick chewy side. Would probably sound huge!

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: Need help isolating V30 mid-spike freqs...

I'd keep it the way it is and exploit the differences and maybe do a stereo rig. A bright cutting side and a thick chewy side. Would probably sound huge!

I recommend this approach. A lot of people use a V30 and a G12H30 or similar . . . I like the V30 with a Cannabis Rex.

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Need help isolating V30 mid-spike freqs...

Judging by the frequency response chart posted on the Celestion website, I'd hazard a guess that it is between 1.5kHz and 5kHz, with the worst of it between 2kHz and 4kHz. Play with an EQ in that range and see what you can find.

Thanks! That's just what I was looking for.

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Need help isolating V30 mid-spike freqs...

I'd keep it the way it is and exploit the differences and maybe do a stereo rig. A bright cutting side and a thick chewy side. Would probably sound huge!

That was my initial thought as well (even after having tried the same thing when I had my first V30-loaded Bogner 2X12). But I was quickly reminded why I didn't care for V30s. In a stereo mix between the two cabs, the 2-V30s were quite a bit louder and more in-your-face than the 4-G12-30s were. So, the channel with the V30s had to be dailed-back significantly in order to not take over the whole tone. Even when I did that, I was not satisfied with the results. I just don't like V30s I guess.

The only time I ever remember liking what I heard coming out of my previous OS2X12 was one time at a gig with my old EL34 Shiva running into it. It was pretty crunchy (in a high-mids sort of way) and really did cut through the mix very well. But I've never perceived that there was much in the way of thick, chunky bottom-end there. I've got a friend who's got two full Marshall stacks loaded with 80s vintage V30s. That wall of sound sounds pretty good. But they're older speakers and there are 16 of them.

As far as running cabs in stereo that compliment each other... I've got a G12-T75 loaded Marshall 1960B that I much prefer the sound of in stereo with the Bogner 4X12 than the V30 2X12. I'm not the biggest fan of the T75 cab by itself (kind of scooped and bland), but it seems to blend well with the G12-30s. So one option is putting two of those T75s in the OS2X12 and putting those two V30s in the Marshall cab to make an X-pattern of T75s and V30s in there. I'm not a fan of that pairing, but I know that a lot of people are and I could probably sell that cab easier with that X-pattern than just the stock T75s.

 

[glassman]

Re: Need help isolating V30 mid-spike freqs...

You might want to consider making a notch filter.

Basically it's an inductor and a capacitor in series between the + and - of your cab. Add an L-Pad to the mix and you can make it adjustable. Parts Express has all the frequency tables to calculate values. Focus your cut between 2k and 4k and you should be in the ballpark.

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Need help isolating V30 mid-spike freqs...

You might want to consider making a notch filter.

Basically it's an inductor and a capacitor in series between the + and - of your cab. Add an L-Pad to the mix and you can make it adjustable. Parts Express has all the frequency tables to calculate values. Focus your cut between 2k and 4k and you should be in the ballpark.

Interesting! I will have to consider this. Could a guy build one to be an in-line style in a box, with 1/4" female jacks on each side -- that could be used between the head's output and the cab's input, like an attenuater?

I spent the afternoon playing around with the Parametric EQ on my Eleven Rack, working and making the Eleven Rack into the G12-30s sound like the XTC running into the V30s. I have never messed with a para EQ before. This one is 4 bands and all kinds of types are selectable for each band (shelf, etc). I think that I've done a pretty good job at matching tones there. But I can see that I still have a lot to learn about parametric EQs and freqencies. Unfortunately, I've spent most of my 26+ years of playing being much more interested in actually playing than in tweaking. I am the kind of guy who normally gets a new piece of gear, quickly sets the tone and gain controls to where I normally like to see them, and then gets busy playing. I have little patience for non-stop tweaking. I would make a terrible studio engineer...

 

[drew_half_empty]

Re: Need help isolating V30 mid-spike freqs...

Interesting! I will have to consider this. Could a guy build one to be an in-line style in a box, with 1/4" female jacks on each side -- that could be used between the head's output and the cab's input, like an attenuater?

I spent the afternoon playing around with the Parametric EQ on my Eleven Rack, working and making the Eleven Rack into the G12-30s sound like the XTC running into the V30s. I have never messed with a para EQ before. This one is 4 bands and all kinds of types are selectable for each band (shelf, etc). I think that I've done a pretty good job at matching tones there. But I can see that I still have a lot to learn about parametric EQs and freqencies. Unfortunately, I've spent most of my 26+ years of playing being much more interested in actually playing than in tweaking. I am the kind of guy who normally gets a new piece of gear, quickly sets the tone and gain controls to where I normally like to see them, and then gets busy playing. I have little patience for non-stop tweaking. I would make a terrible studio engineer...

DUDE, that sounds like me and it scares me--I could never ever see myself using a stereo rig including an 11-rack. Wtf kind of car do you drive? Seriously I'm curious, I wanna tour after i graduate and that's probably about the size of all my band's gear together.


Anyhoo, I never dug v30's either, though I like them when some other people use them. If you don't have your heart set on real-deal celestions, I really, really like the eminence wizard, and they're much cheaper, you could probably sell your v30s for more than the price of a new one. Plus they're 75 watts, so IMO they'd make for a more usable 2x12 than 30w celestions.

Something to consider

 

[Schappy]

Re: Need help isolating V30 mid-spike freqs...

You could always check out a Warehouse Veteran 30. Its modeled after the Vintage 30 but with a smoothed mid spike. Its also half the price of a Vintage 30. It has a little less bass than the Vintage 3O but I like it alot in my 1X12 Avatar.

 

[Jessie's ghost]

Re: Need help isolating V30 mid-spike freqs...

So this spike in the V30… do you guys hear it all the time, or just at higher volumes? I've been playing a Mesa/Boogie Rocket 44 combo lately, and it sounds really smooth and cozy to me. But I've been playing at pretty low volumes, so I thought that might be the difference. Either that, or my hearing loss is worse than I thought.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Need help isolating V30 mid-spike freqs...

If you want to experiment with reducing the mid spike you're experiencing, start at 3.4kHz.

You should try moving the cab to a different location, too. It may just be the way the cab is loading the room. If it's a closed back cab, you can also try facing it in the opposite direction (towards the back wall) instead of out into the room.

 

[Jay 77]

Re: Need help isolating V30 mid-spike freqs...

DUDE, that sounds like me and it scares me--I could never ever see myself using a stereo rig including an 11-rack. Wtf kind of car do you drive? Seriously I'm curious, I wanna tour after i graduate and that's probably about the size of all my band's gear together.


Anyhoo, I never dug v30's either, though I like them when some other people use them. If you don't have your heart set on real-deal celestions, I really, really like the eminence wizard, and they're much cheaper, you could probably sell your v30s for more than the price of a new one. Plus they're 75 watts, so IMO they'd make for a more usable 2x12 than 30w celestions.

Something to consider

Just chiming in on this one... V30's are 60w, I believe.

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Need help isolating V30 mid-spike freqs...

You know... I'm starting to enjoy the way my XTC sounds through the V30-loaded 2X12. Definitely a different tone than the G12-30s, but nice in its own way.

So I'm left to think the first Bogner V30-loeaded 2X12 that I had was just never broken-in. I bought that one new from MF. I put at least 50+ hours on it, including very loud gigs. Probably close to double that.

This 2nd one I just bought from a guy on Ebay. It's dead-mint... but must be more broken-in. Cause it sounds WAY less obnoxious to my ears. So I think that I'll hang on to these V30s for a while and see if I can live with them. I'm thinking that I can. Taking this cab to leave at my band practice location this week. A friend is gonna bring his Bogner Twin Jet for me to play with. I think I'll take it to band rehearsal and give this cab a workout with the crushing brootalz of that amp. ;-)

 

[zzmoore]

Re: Need help isolating V30 mid-spike freqs...

So this spike in the V30… do you guys hear it all the time, or just at higher volumes? I've been playing a Mesa/Boogie Rocket 44 combo lately, and it sounds really smooth and cozy to me. But I've been playing at pretty low volumes, so I thought that might be the difference. Either that, or my hearing loss is worse than I thought.

It is one of the most played and most recorded speakers in the history of The World. That does not make it a good speaker for everybody, but seriously.......with all the tens of thousands that have been sold, how "bad" can it really be.? I think the worst problem(s) occur in the studio where that 3k spike can be hard to deal with from an engineering stand point. Certain combinations of player/amp/guitar can be pretty bad as well, but again, look at the number of successes.
If you like the V30 and have no problems with it in your playing, all this stuff is irrelevant. To my ears, the Eminence Governor is a "better" sounding V30.
Good Luck

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Need help isolating V30 mid-spike freqs...

I Love V30s and my Marshall A/V cab is rated for 280 watts,making mine each rated for 70 watts..

V30s do sound like a$$ until they get nice and broken in,but they aren't for everybody,but very popular for some reason?

 

[butnut]

Re: Need help isolating V30 mid-spike freqs...

I love my V30 and G12H speakers, they both work very well together. I also really dig the V30 by itself, it has that strong mid honk that sounds real kool with HBs..after they have broken in. Keep rocking the 2 V30s if you hear a tone you like and is growing on ya. It cuts well in a band mix and has that distinct punch and crunch.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Need help isolating V30 mid-spike freqs...

:smack:

I can't even read this without thinking that this thread is the shining example of the fact that the gear game never ends.

I'm not making fun, because I'm just as guilty as anyone. But, you always see players saying "if only I had this and that, I'd be done." Uh, maybe.

So, with a $6000 amp rig, what do we have? A rig with great mids needing a few mid frequencies removed. Yep, now it's splitting hairs over speaker combinations! :boggled::smack::biglaugh:

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Need help isolating V30 mid-spike freqs...

So, with a $6000 amp rig, what do we have? A rig with great mids needing a few mid frequencies removed. Yep, now it's splitting hairs over speaker combinations! :boggled::smack::biglaugh:

If there was ever a Zen of Guitar Gear, you just summed it up.

 

[ksmith63]

Re: Need help isolating V30 mid-spike freqs...

Also don't go by the celestion SPL curve....well not 100%. Sure it looks good and gives you an IDEA of something happening in the upper mids HOWEVER it is completely useless. No data is provided for microphone placement, volume of the box the speaker is in, size of the baffle, power going to the speaker and they left out the rest of the data. Where is the impedance curve? Harmonic distortion?

Get a 31 band eq and filter them out yourself for home practice.