Need help wiring blower switch with Triple Shots

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rodzimguitar68

New member
In my old mini-toggle pickup switch days, I have wired a bridge pickup to a 4 pole double throw ON/ON switch before to allow signal to pass straight through when flicked "up" and into a 3 pole on/off/on mini toggle for series/off/parallel operation, the other pickups also were wired to their own individual series/off/parallel mini's. In that setup I used a master volume and master tone. But when flicked "down", the blower would bypass the individual mini-toggles and put the bridge hum bucker into series mode (standard hum bucking) and send it to the volume and tone.

Now I have a 2 hum bucker, with 3 way Les-Paul style toggle, master volume, master tone, and the hum buckers have triple shot rings installed in them.

My goal is to be able to bypass whatever 3-way toggle setting, and whatever triple shot mini-switch setting is active on the pickups, and go straight to my bridge pickup in standard Series mode, and go still go through the volume and tone like usual. I do not wish to bypass the vol/tone. I want this mode of the blow switch to sound identical to me putting the triple shot minis pushed together towards each other and the 3-way pickup selector to the bridge pickup position, with volume and tone.

My problem is what to do with the green and bare wires from the pickup to the 4 pole on/on switch, because with my old guitar wiring, I was only trying to bypass series/parallel, and the triple shots are more complicated because they can individually short each coil, and I don't want to lose that functionality.

My 4pole ON/ON has 12 contacts on it, and would have been wired like this in the old setup (not with triple shots).

row 1: 1 2 3 4
row 2: 5 6 7 8
row 3: 9 10 11 12

The pickup wires would attach like this: black to #5, red to #6, white to #7, green and bare to ground
Jumpers would be like this: #1 jumpered to #4; #2 jumpered to #3
row three would allow the black, red, and white to pass through and to the bridge's series parallel (or in my case back to the triple shot circuit board (black out through #9, red out through #10, and white out through #11
#12 would be the "return from the pickup selector" - in the old days, my mini-toggles, but in this case, the Les Paul 3-way
#8 is the main output of the switch and goes to the volume knob left wiper.

Again, my issue is what to do with the green and bare? Can those be soldered to the back of the volume pot or will that destroy every switching option that is normally available with triple shot rings? IF I merely attach the green pickup wire and the bare wire to the triple shot harness where it is suppose to go, will the pickup not work, or short out one coil, when I attempt to use the blow switch mode of the blow switch, because I'm bypassing the triple shot harness's grounding?

Any help is GREATLY appreciated.

Thank you
 
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Re: Need help wiring blower switch with Triple Shots

I am not sure that a 4PDT has enough contacts to do all that you require.

The required functions are;
1) to divert the four conductors of the bridge position pickup BEFORE they reach the Triple Shot
(3 contacts per pickup conductor, four sources, two destinations for each.)​
2) to combine the coils of the bridge position pickup in series. (4 of the previous 12 contacts)
3) to send the "blown" bridge position pickup signal to the output jack socket. (1 of the previous 4 contacts)
4) to ground the "blown" bridge position pickup. (Another of the previous 4 contacts)
5) to disconnect everything else in the guitar circuitry from the output jack circuit. (D'oh! Run out of contacts.)
 
Re: Need help wiring blower switch with Triple Shots

Thanks. I agree. I am looking at a 6-pole on-on that is a push push and instead being shaped like a lego, like conventional mini-toggles, it is shaped like a skyscaper - elongated.
 
Re: Need help wiring blower switch with Triple Shots

I would do it as follows:

Pins:
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12

Bridge pickup:
Green and bare to green and bare on triple shot.
White wire to pin 5
Red wire to pin 6
Black wire to pin 7

Triple Shot:
White to pin 1
Red to pin 2
Black to pin 3
Green jumped with bare (-).

Pickups selector's output (from 3-way or whatever):
Output to pin 4

Volume pot input (lug 1):
to pin 8

4PDT ON/ON inner jumpers:
jump pins 9 and 10.
jump pins 11 and 12.

Maybe I am having a bad day but, I see it feasible with a 4PDT on/on, you don't need 6 poles.

Overall idea is to insert the 4PDT between your pickup and the triple shot, but only 3 wires (red, white and black), since the green will go always to ground. Green and bare will be soldered directly to the triple shot contacts.
The remaining pole of the 4PDT should serve to determine which source do you use as input for your volume pot (or bridge pickup or regular pickups selector).
 
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Re: Need help wiring blower switch with Triple Shots

Yes, I see that that might work, except that in addition to that little silliness, I have a push pull for the two pickups to be in series or parallel with one another, and another push pull for phase reversal. According to the diagram on the Seymour Duncan site for "2 humbuckers with triple shots, 3 way switch, master volume, master tone, push pull series/par, and push pull phase, I must have the bare wire separate from the green in that circuit.

For that reason, I was able to locate an on/on pot - 6 pole / double throw. I wanted it to be a mini toggle, but couldn't find one. It has 6 center lugs (in a circle) and 12 outer lugs around that perimeter. So, each center lug has a "A-path" or a "B-path". I designated the A path to simply be the pass through of my 5 bridge pickup wires from the pickup back to the triple shot harness. (yes, on the harness I swapped red and black, and green and white, so my mini-switches would operate intuitively). I'm basically wiring the 5 pickup leads to their own lug, and sending the them back to the triple shot mounting ring from the A-path of each contact, where it gets converted to black, white, bare as part of the advanced circuitry I alluded to above. I have the output of my 3-way switch return to the A lug on the 6th pole. The 6th lug itself goes to the volume pot. Since the 5th lug on my switch is the black wire from the bridge pickup, which would be the hot wire in standard humbucker/series operation, I jumper 5-B to 6-B.

When I have the switch in the A-contact position, all of the wiring is in play, and the 3-way output goes to the 6th-A lug, and makes contact with Lug 6 which returns to the volume/tone circuit. When I rotate the pot to the B position, all circuitry is bypassed, I have the B lugs of Red and White jumpered, the B lugs of Green and Bare jumpered, and the 5B lug (black wire) is jumpered to 6B, and makes contact with lug 6 to go to my volume/tone circuit and to the output jack.

I'm ordering a chicken head knob since the shaft of this pot is too thick to use one of my guitar's knobs. And since the switch is new, it is sort of hard to flick. I figured the chicken head's shape will give me more leverage to operate it.
 
Re: Need help wiring blower switch with Triple Shots

I would do OOP with neck pickup (which makes more sense for that peter green' sound) so, you don't need bridge pickup's green.
For serial, I would link bridge's hot (black) to neck's negative (green), leaving the bridge always ground so, you don't need bridge pickup's green, neither.
So, a 4PDT could be ok. Just be sure the bridge's black goes to the serializer only in "regular" mode (so, from pin 3).

If my user' settings allowed me to directly attach an image from my computer, I would draw a diagram for you but, unfortunately, I am not allowed (and I still doesn't understand why).

But, focus first in to run the neck to that OOP switch.
Then, bridge thru that 4PDT.
From both switches, run both pickups to the serializer.
From the serializer, to the pickups selector.

It should work.
 
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Re: Need help wiring blower switch with Triple Shots

Once more, I have no way to attach a picture....

"You don't have permission to access /forum/newattachment.php on this server."

I've got the wiring design ready but, I cannot attach it.
Sorry.
 
Re: Need help wiring blower switch with Triple Shots

Well, since I cannot upload a picture and, since I've sent the pic to the OP by mail, requesting him to hung it here and didn't happened by now and, since it took me a while to draw the design, I've created an entry in my blog and, I am linking the picture corresponding to this design. Maybe, it will be of use to anyone else.

Hermetico's_-_HH_X62_SD.jpg

For further details, follow this link: http://hermeticoguitar.blogspot.com.es/2014/09/wiring-diy-hermeticos-hh-x61-sd-mod.html
 
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Re: Need help wiring blower switch with Triple Shots

Thank you for the help. I wired this last night. I wrote directly to you via email, but am repeating here on the forum. The tone knob rotates backwards from the way it normally does. Can you make a drawing of the tone knob wiring, that would allow it to rotate the opposite way from that which you've drawn the first time?

Thanks
 
Re: Need help wiring blower switch with Triple Shots

Answered by mail.
Yes, you are right. The previous project which this one was based on was for a lefthander.

You only need to desolder the dark blue wire on tone's right lug and solder it to tone's left lug, instead.
 
Re: Need help wiring blower switch with Triple Shots

I have a question to ask you. I reverse the wiring for the bridge pickup so the triple shot switches operate like you think they should. Push them towards the bridge, and the screws coil is active alone, push the switches towards the neck, and the inside coil is active. So, I'm swapping the white and green, and I'm swapping the black and red.

The wiring is not working. The bypass state (where the bridge pickup functions and bypasses all switches except for volume and tone) is working.

I wonder if the fact that I swap the wires, causes a ground out issue due to the phase reversal or series parallel push/pulls.

What do you recommend?

Thanks
 
Re: Need help wiring blower switch with Triple Shots

rodzimguitar68 said:
I have a question to ask you. I reverse the wiring for the bridge pickup so the triple shot switches operate like you think they should. Push them towards the bridge, and the screws coil is active alone, push the switches towards the neck, and the inside coil is active. So, I'm swapping the white and green, and I'm swapping the black and red.

The wiring is not working. The bypass state (where the bridge pickup functions and bypasses all switches except for volume and tone) is working.

I wonder if the fact that I swap the wires, causes a ground out issue due to the phase reversal or series parallel push/pulls.

What do you recommend?

Thanks
Click to expand...

I'm not getting you.
Did you wire it as shown in the diagram or did you introduced your own mods?.
 
Re: Need help wiring blower switch with Triple Shots

Well, reading your other post I'm getting what you wanted to do.

You should swap white with green and black with red in the whole path, from pickup to triple shot.
Naming the poles of the 4PDT as

1 2 3 4
A B C D
5 6 7 8

And TS to the Triple-Shot. You should have:

Pickup's white, directly soldered to TS' G
1 - green jumper to TS' W.
A - pickup's green
5 - jumper to 6

2 - black jumper to TS' R
B - pickup's black
6 - jumper to 5

3 - red jumper to TS' B
C - pickup's red
7 - Jumper to 8

4 - from 3-ways output
D - to volume's input
8 - jumper to 7
 
Re: Need help wiring blower switch with Triple Shots

I've been trying to wire this guitar with about 15 hours of time logged in. This schematic only works in the bypass mode where the bridge humbucker goes to volume and tone and all other circuitry is bypassed. The only change I've made, would be to jumper the other leg of the tone, so the tone knob works right handed.

Is it possible you've overlooked something that is grounding out the circuit, when the blow switch is in standard mode?

Thanks
 
Re: Need help wiring blower switch with Triple Shots

rodzimguitar68 said:
I've been trying to wire this guitar with about 15 hours of time logged in. This schematic only works in the bypass mode where the bridge humbucker goes to volume and tone and all other circuitry is bypassed. The only change I've made, would be to jumper the other leg of the tone, so the tone knob works right handed.

Is it possible you've overlooked something that is grounding out the circuit, when the blow switch is in standard mode?

Thanks
Click to expand...

It would help to know what do you get in standard mode, depending on 3-way and pull/pushes status.
Will take a look to the design and, come back in few days.
 
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Re: Need help wiring blower switch with Triple Shots

Mate, I'm sorry to say this but, appart of the glitch with the reverse tone, the diagram is perfect.
So...
Are you sure the black cable of each triple shot harness is on the negative tab, the white cable on the positive tab and the bare wire on the ground tab?.
If so, there is no reason on this diagram for that issue. Take into account that when the 4PDT on/on is in standard mode, we are just extending the wires from the pickup to the triple shot and, therefore, regular operation should happen. Where I had doubts was specifically on the bypass thing!.
You are clearly missing something respect to design or, you have some defective part.

To check:
1) Is your 4PDT on/on working as expected. When you toggle the switch, the middle lug enters in contact with its respective upper lug (one way) and with the lower lug (the other way)?. ALL THEM CONTACT IN THE SAME WAY?. (to check this, use a multimeter, look for continuity, ohms, beep...).
2) Is your Triple Shot defective?.
With your pickup's wires soldered to the triple shot (red to R, green to G, white to W, black to B).
When switching the four combinations of that triple shot micro-switches,

You should get continuity testing following spots:
1) black + positive / red + white / green + negative (standard humbucker position)
2) black + positive / red&white&green + negative (slug split)
3) black&red&white + positive / green + negative (screw split)
4) black&red + positive / white&green + negative (coils in parallel)

If that works and the 4PDT on/on works as expected then, the issue is in the rest of the wiring (pull/pushes and/or pot's lugs).

Are you using something else not drawn on this diagram, as a treble-bleed mod or whatever else other deviation from design?

Can you post detailed pics that clearly show how did you do it?
 
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Re: Need help wiring blower switch with Triple Shots

Can you confirm that I am reading your diagram correctly, in that the black and bare wire from the bridge tripleshot is wired to the casing of the tone pot along with many other ground wires?

That's the only thing in your diagram that concerns me a little. When I look at Seymour Duncan's diagram (which of course does not have a blow switch on it) the black and white of the triple shots are connected to lugs of the dpdt switch, while the bare wire goes to ground. But in your diagram it appears that the black and bare BOTH are soldered to ground.

Please confirm.

Thanks
 
Re: Need help wiring blower switch with Triple Shots

PS - before I wrote again on the thread, about 3 days ago, I removed all wiring. I connected the pickups directly to their tripe shots, and then one at a time I wired the bridge directly to the output jack - no pots or switches in the way, and I checked the modes of the mini-switches of the triple shots, and they were functioning. Then I disconnected the bridge pickup from the jack and connected the neck pickup - same results - the triple shots work. I also did continuity checks on the switches on the back of the pots, and on the 4pole mini. All of my components function.

However, I cannot 100% confirm that the black and white triple shot wires are wired to their correct contacts. That would be a factory glitch, if they are not correct, because I didn't touch or alter them.

I will pull them out and confirm.

I'm eager to read your response to my previous thread about whether the bridge triple shot black and bare are supposed to be soldered to the tone pot's casing along with other grounds, or if the black is supposed to be connected somewhere on the dpdt switch.

Thanks
 
Re: Need help wiring blower switch with Triple Shots

rodzimguitar68 said:
PS - before I wrote again on the thread, about 3 days ago, I removed all wiring. I connected the pickups directly to their tripe shots, and then one at a time I wired the bridge directly to the output jack - no pots or switches in the way, and I checked the modes of the mini-switches of the triple shots, and they were functioning. Then I disconnected the bridge pickup from the jack and connected the neck pickup - same results - the triple shots work. I also did continuity checks on the switches on the back of the pots, and on the 4pole mini. All of my components function.

However, I cannot 100% confirm that the black and white triple shot wires are wired to their correct contacts. That would be a factory glitch, if they are not correct, because I didn't touch or alter them.

I will pull them out and confirm.
Click to expand...

If every component works as expected and that 3-wires harness is ok then, I will be able to help you only after seeing detailed pics of what you did.
 
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