Need Power Tube Help - ADVICE

[mwalluk]

As you know, I started a few threads suggesting tube help for my VHT D60. The threads were a great read and I was able to get an idea of the pre-amp tubes I wanted/needed. The consensus was the 4 preamps I should get are (in order of V1-V4/PI) Tungsol, EH, EH and a Sovtek. I also plan on getting a JJ to tryout/spare.

However, power tubes are a little trickier. I can't buy handfuls to test em out. Also, apparently not many amps use KT88s. That said many stores don't offer a wide selection of KT88s. For example, MF and GC only offer GT and Genalex, while Dougstubes and Tubedepot only offer other select brands.

What brand should I get? I believe stock mines comes with SOvteks. I heard mixed reviews on JJ KT88s. Some say it lacks and that's b/c not many people buy them while others such as SoSo (who's opinion I respect highly) swear by them.

Haven't heard anything about the Genalex Gold Lion reissues which go for around $100. I'm thinking about trying em but don't want to drop the funds on em if they suck.

I would like to be able to order the pre and power tubes from the same store.

Any help/suggestions/advice welcomed.

 

[GoldenVulture]

Re: Need Power Tube Help - ADVICE

The Genalex get good reviews and probably what I will get as a spare pair for my amp.
The Svetlana WingedC version get the best reviews but they are costlier.

The Tungsol, EH and Sovtek are all a fairly safe bet.

Beyond that I can't refer to their performance as my experience is only with NOS Gold Lions. If the re-issues are any where near the originals ball park , they should be good.

All the amplified electric guitar tracks of my stuff at my soundclick stuff is done with my amp running Kt88s. I don't use any distortion boxes just an analog delay and a compressor/sustain/poarametris EQ.

 

[glassman]

Re: Need Power Tube Help - ADVICE

My first suggestion is going to be to throw all others experiences with a particular brand tube out the window and forget it was ever said; there are some very important variables that are never taken into account when these opinions are thrown out there. These include:

(1) your playing style
(2) the volume you perform at
(3) the test parameters of the particular set of tubes you installed; plate current (via a maxi-matcher which is probably the most standardized method) is where the major difference lies.

Two sets of tubes of the same ratings (test parameters) by different manufacturers will have almost no difference in character while two sets from the same manufacturer but with different ratings will behave totally differently. This is where the majority of "opinions" are generated from...remember, a sample size of 1 is not a trend.

KT88 or 6550 (same tube basically) have a centerpoint plate current rating of ~50. Higher numbers will sound more compressed and lower numbers will sound more dynamic. This all is dependent on whether you drive them to sufficient volumes to bring out these differences in character; lower volume players won't be able to tell a difference.

What sounds good to 99 other players might not sound good to you...and vise versa. Just don't get hung up on brand, that's not where the differences lie.

 

[misterwhizzy]

Re: Need Power Tube Help - ADVICE

Jerry, does your analysis apply to preamp tubes as well, or is that mainly for power tubes? I keep getting the itch to try different power tubes because I don't know the answer, but their higher cost keeps me from doing it. I definitely hear a difference when I switch preamp tubes, and preamp tubes from the same brand sound very close to me, but I suppose that could be based solely on the way they test rather than their brand.

 

[UberMetalDood]

Re: Need Power Tube Help - ADVICE

I've had great results with Valve Art KT88's. They're reliable, they sound great , they're low noise, and they're priced nicely.

 

[glassman]

Re: Need Power Tube Help - ADVICE

Jerry, does your analysis apply to preamp tubes as well, or is that mainly for power tubes? I keep getting the itch to try different power tubes because I don't know the answer, but their higher cost keeps me from doing it. I definitely hear a difference when I switch preamp tubes, and preamp tubes from the same brand sound very close to me, but I suppose that could be based solely on the way they test rather than their brand.

Hey Will. Preamp tubes are a little different and operate under different conditions. First, the closer you get to the front of the amp, the more difference tube changes make...there are exceptions but generally this is the case. A preamp stage is always single ended. The current is "set" by the cathode resistor and to a lesser degree by the plate resistor. Two different 12AX7s will sound different; this can have to do with gain factor, bandwidth, component geometry, inter-stage and stage to stage capacitance, other factors and interactions. By the time you get to the phase inverter generally only a major swing will make much difference.

You can change the current in a preamp stage and make more difference than changes between different tubes...it's more like shifting the parameters. For example, a preamp that produces a considerable amount of bass flub with a JJ 12AX7 generally tightens up considerably with less current. The nice thing about working with stage current is that it doesn't mess with the general EQ of the stage as much as its character (tightness or looseness).

I can't tell you how many guys have come into my shop dead set on getting a new set of power tubes and left, totally happy, with the same tubes, set to compliment their playing style and amp combination and possibly a few other subtle tweaks. For those that refuse to believe, I have been known to roll a few very different sets of tubes through their amp to show them that tone is more in the setup and less in the output tubes.

My recommendation should be taken in context though. Almost all of my customers are performing musicians; they are far more concerned with how their tone sits in a mix and less concerned about the micro-subtleties that some people seem to look for...you know, the stuff you can hear when playing an amp by itself but nobody can hear in a band situation. My ear and general direction is more about the guys in bands and my recommendations follow that.

 

[mwalluk]

Re: Need Power Tube Help - ADVICE

I appreciate the input. I'm a gigging musicians. I'm more of a rhythm player focusing on subtle nuances of abrupt rhythmic schemes. I do dig the Fryette tone, raw, dynamic, organic, tight, dry.

I had the amp for about a year. Got it used. I just want to give it a fresh start. New tubes (who knows the abuse the other person put on this bad boy).

 

[sosomething]

Re: Need Power Tube Help - ADVICE

I don't know of anyone who has actually used JJ KT88s say anything negative about them.

If you're cagey though, just get what your amp came with stock. If you aren't sure, call Fryette and ask them what tubes they ship in the D60.

Simple!

 

[mwalluk]

Re: Need Power Tube Help - ADVICE

I don't know of anyone who has actually used JJ KT88s say anything negative about them.

If you're cagey though, just get what your amp came with stock. If you aren't sure, call Fryette and ask them what tubes they ship in the D60.

Simple!

I wanted to upgrade it a little bit. Stock are Sovtek's KT88s. Preamps - had 3 cheap chinease tubes in it.

 

[sosomething]

Re: Need Power Tube Help - ADVICE

I wanted to upgrade it a little bit. Stock are Sovtek's KT88s. Preamps - had 3 cheap chinease tubes in it.

Sovteks aren't bad power tubes. They're just common.

But Fryette is not a budget brand.

If Steve Fryette felt other current-production tubes made a quantifiable difference in his designs, he'd probably use those instead.

I don't have tons of experience with lots of different KT88 brands, so all I can say to you is

JJ Good
Sovtek Fine
Svetlana Winged =C= Terrible

 

[mwalluk]

Re: Need Power Tube Help - ADVICE

Sovteks aren't bad power tubes. They're just common.

But Fryette is not a budget brand.

If Steve Fryette felt other current-production tubes made a quantifiable difference in his designs, he'd probably use those instead.

I don't have tons of experience with lots of different KT88 brands, so all I can say to you is

JJ Good
Sovtek Fine
Svetlana Winged =C= Terrible

I was talking more about the preamps, I have nothing against Sovteks. Winged C not good? I always heard people gloat about those. Do you remember what your other guitarist had in his D120?

 

[sosomething]

Re: Need Power Tube Help - ADVICE

I was talking more about the preamps, I have nothing against Sovteks. Winged C not good? I always heard people gloat about those. Do you remember what your other guitarist had in his D120?

I'm having trouble keeping up with you here.

I thought you had figured out what you wanted for the preamp?

The other guy in my band had the stock tubes all around in his Deliverance.

 

[mwalluk]

Re: Need Power Tube Help - ADVICE

I got the pre's figured, just contemplating about power