NEED quality ABY type box for 2 AMPS HELP

T

tom axe

New member
:cool2:

I have long wanted to play my guitar through a blend of two good quality amps. I have the guitars and amps and speakers, but have no idea on the box to run them together. I have been told that a German product called a Leigh-La was good and a less expensive one a Tone Bone, but got not reasons why either was good or where to buy them.

I think that I need a high quality box with some features other than just a plain swith box.

The gear I am going to be using is as follows.

A new Peavey JSX Satriani 120 watt Head
A new Ashdown Fallen Angel 200 watt Head

Speaker Cabs

I have the matching straight cab for the JSX, by some fluke I got it at a GC for 299 being a return or something, I dont expect to find another at that price and will likely end up finding a Peavey cab that is as close a match to the cab and speakers inside as the JSX cab.

I have a matching full stack of Ashdown Fallen Angel cabs, both the striaight and the top slant cab have 60-70 watt Ashdown speakers inside, the cabs are 16 Ohm.

I dont think this will be part of this set up, but I also have a Randall cab which I installed new Celestion Greenbacks in. I will likely buy some used nice clean amp for this cab.

Obviously there is going to be some volume adjustments needed, but I am not sure what device will give me the more options and yeild the best sound blend from the two rigs I have.

I hope somone out there can tell me what a good quality solution is for this, as well as explaining WHY and WHERE to buy one.

Thanks in advance,
Tom:banghead:
 
Re: NEED quality ABY type box for 2 AMPS HELP

Im not sure I understand what you are asking for...

Why do you need something with more features than a simply ABY box??

You want to simply switch between one amp or the other or both together correct??
 
Re: NEED quality ABY type box for 2 AMPS HELP

Well I want to run both amps at the same time, but I am not aware of the other adjustments that are available in some of the better units, I have once again been told that the (sp?) Lehla is an industry standard as it is silent and unbuffered. To me this is sort of an experiment, and just because it looks like it is two matched full stacks does not necessarily mean that is how they will be wired up, that will also be part of the experiment. Some people really like effects, and that is in some ways what this will do, it will give me a unique sound that is different from either amp, whether it sound awesome or horrid remains to be seen. So far I have not done a guitar mod that did not work out incredibly well, and I am hoping to have the same luck with this, I spent a mint on the two amps and the cabs so the box is not going to be a big expensive part of the rig, but I have long wanted to try this but did not have the amps to do it, so I will find out if it was a good idea or not.
 
Re: NEED quality ABY type box for 2 AMPS HELP

Well, first I think you are talking about Lehle switcher units. If so they are infact great units but they are pretty expensive when compared to other switcher boxes. Teh one you would be looking for is the Lehle Dual and new it's around $375. now, you can go to any number of smaller name hardwired ABY boxes like, for example Loop-Master and get one for less than $60.

If I were you id go with Loop-Master or any of the many other loop/switch box builders out there or for that matter any of other off the shelf kinds...the Lehle stuff is nice but having used it myself I don;t at all understand the pricing...
 
Re: NEED quality ABY type box for 2 AMPS HELP

Seems like a simple A+B/Y with a volume pedal after each output and correct setting of master volumes of the amps could get you quite a bit of blending options.
 
Re: NEED quality ABY type box for 2 AMPS HELP

yes, and on other hand a cheap ABY like the Morley I bought here on the Trader post has a lot of bad raps against it.
There are a lot of "botique" custom wired ABY switchboxes/loopers on ebay for about a hundred bucks. ABY and true bypass and so on, so forth.
 
Re: NEED quality ABY type box for 2 AMPS HELP

My only real issue with switchers with like the Morley is that I've never used one that didn't have ground loops and made a terrible buzzing no matter what I didn...however I do know guys that use them with great results!
 
Re: NEED quality ABY type box for 2 AMPS HELP

Thanks for the various suggestion. One thing that the Lehla mentioned was that unlike some it was not buffered and has adjustable gains to each amp which is the type of thing I am looking for, much like the idea of the box and volume pedals. It is expensive compared to the other units, but is supposed to be silent and compared to the amount I have slaved to save for those two amp rigs it is in comparison not expensive, and if I decide to be safe and buy it at a GC or MF and it doesnt do what I hoped it would they will let me return it.
 
Re: NEED quality ABY type box for 2 AMPS HELP

The best aby pedal that I've used is the Whirlwind, you can grab them used for about $60-70. They are dead quiet and work great.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Selector/

Selector-large.jpg
 
Re: NEED quality ABY type box for 2 AMPS HELP

I have the Morley, just make sure to plug both amps in to the same power strip/power conditioner, solves the ground loop problem....quiet and works great (built really well too)
 
Re: NEED quality ABY type box for 2 AMPS HELP

I'm the first to admit that I am not an expert on the subject of ABY switchers. I was watching an auction on Ebay not long ago for a Radial Engineering Big Shot ABY. I didn't actually win it as I was trying to get an idea of what they go for second hand. It ended below $100, and shipping was not too bad - i think it was roughly $8-$10.

This one has a transformer built in to eliminate ground loops/noise. It has has a "polarity reversal switch to phase match amps." I'm sure this is some phase problem that occurs when you're running a signal through two amps? Again I'm no expert, but the Radial ABY seems pretty cool to me. I've seen some of their preamp/distortion pedals up close and they seem pretty heavy duty and durable.

-Peter
 
Re: NEED quality ABY type box for 2 AMPS HELP

Cheap ABYs typically have three problems.

1) No ground isolation, so you get a ground loop between the amps - lots of buzz and noise. This depends a little on the amps in question, but I've not found many combinations that don't buzz.

2) No grounding of the unused output in AB mode, so you get bleed-thru.

3) No buffering of the signal, so in Y mode you lose volume and treble. The Radial and Lehle stuff gets around this by splitting the signal with a transformer.

I spent a good long time on ABYs and my conclusion is that the best approach is a good quality buffer on the input so yout signal isn't weakened in Y mode and an isolation transformer on one or both outputs to prevent ground loops.
 
Re: NEED quality ABY type box for 2 AMPS HELP

I have & like the Startouch boxes, but I've read that some people have had issues with them.

I've had a Morley & it was bad...ground loops & ghost notes.

I'd look for a good used Lehle or a Divided By 13 Switchhazel, although I don't know if the %13 is an A/B/Y or just A/B.
 
Re: NEED quality ABY type box for 2 AMPS HELP

PUCKBOY99 said:
I have & like the Startouch boxes, but I've read that some people have had issues with them.
I've had a Morley & it was bad...ground loops & ghost notes.
I'd look for a good used Lehle or a Divided By 13 Switchhazel, although I don't know if the %13 is an A/B/Y or just A/B.
Click to expand...

The Switchhazel is an AB with a built in boost, not an ABY.

I have to be honest here guys, $300 for an ABY box is just crazy...Loop-Master sells an ABY with out the ground loop isues and ghost notes of a Morley or other such cheepie for less than $70 and he's not the only one...just look around on forums and ebay and you;re bound to find something.

Also, FWIW a lot of high end pedal makers are getting into switcher, true bypass and A/B/C/Y, etc boxes, just look around and see what you can find for less than 3 bills...
 
Re: NEED quality ABY type box for 2 AMPS HELP

Loop Master's stuff is good, but his ABY doesn't have ground isolation or buffering. None of the cheapos do. You can't do that sort of thing on a budget - a decent transformer alone costs around £10 ($20ish).
 
Re: NEED quality ABY type box for 2 AMPS HELP

I had a Lehle Dual for a few years and liked it, except for the price. The Lehle was nice because it had the ground isolated outputs and the ability to invert the polarity if the amps were different (mine were the same, but the feature was there). You can read by the LED's, they're so bright. It felt very solid.

However, when I got my Victoria 20112 (Deluxe clone), which is very touch sensitive, I realized that there was a slight volume drop when using both amps together (didn't notice it 'til I got the Victoria). So, I would have the perfect gain setting with the Victoria alone, and lose it as soon as I engaged the other amp at the same time.

I ended up with the Framptone...it is buffered, which as it turns out I prefer in this case, and has ground lifts (external) and polarity swaps (internal), plus I think it has internal trip pots for relative volume, although I have not used these. I would say the Framptone sounds more "transparent" and has a better top end...I instantly liked it better than the Lehle, and would have purchased it over the Lehle if I had had the option initially. For me, the sound quality of the Framptone was noticeably better than the Lehle for about the same price (cheaper, actually). Framptone is made by Keely, I think (http://www.framptone.com/)

I concur about the price of these things...it is simply insane. On the other hand, the ABY box is the heart of my rig, so I was willing to spend the $$$ (at this point, anyway). If I were starting from scratch, I would probably try the loopmaster version first, to see if it worked for me, given the excellent price...if not, I would move up to the Framptone, which is, in fact, cheaper than the Lehle Dual.
 
Re: NEED quality ABY type box for 2 AMPS HELP

So far I like the Lehle best because of the adjustments to each amp, but it sounds like the framptone has that but i dont know what internally means in regards to the feature.

I also got a reply about a tone bone previously but have not seen one or know the features, these are both high gain amps and in the FA case 200 tube watts I expect will not see the full wattage, ever. It is sort of hard to try these things out though, so I will have to go by the most reasonable recommendations and what I can see in the list of features. While they are certainly are pricey, so are some other things like my favorite and only OD I would ever use, with the amps I have dont need it now, but the Damage Control Solid Metal gave me the sound I wanted, and I did not pay full price of 300, I paid 150 from a web site. I would give the new SD metal box a try as it, like the SM, has tubes in it. If the best ends up being the most expensive then I will go with that, after spending thousands on two full stacks I am not going to let 100 bucks or what have you spoil the tone that could be had by getting the best though not cheapest unit.
The "Penny wise pound foolish" or some such ye olde saying applies here me thinks.
 
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