Need some help! Double coil split

[Nem]

Re: Need some help! Double coil split

yeah the only problem with push/pull pots is id have to rewire everything, id have to research and buy new pots, the wiring would get a lot more complex and im only a beginner when it comes to pickup installations

tbh i dont think i need that amount of control anyway

 

[Artie]

Re: Need some help! Double coil split

Ok . . . here it is, but think of this as a "preliminary" drawing. I'ld kinda like it if Kent or Robert, et al., could double-check me on this 'cause I'm doing something a bit different to accomodate the limitations of the switch - that is, switching the grounds, instead of hots.

The hots are wired direct. The pic shows the "bridge" grounded and thus, selected. In the next position, you ground the red/white combo of both p'ups, giving you both split. In the last position, the red/whites become un-grounded again, and you ground the "neck".

Make sense? (Kent, Robert, anyone?)

 

[Nem]

Re: Need some help! Double coil split

i dont pretend to know much about electronics, but i thought if you wanted to disable a part of a circuit ur meant to cut the live wire to stop the current flow?

what limitations of the switch are preventing this from being the case?

 

[Artie]

Re: Need some help! Double coil split

You can break the "live" or "ground". Electricity requires a "loop". It doesn't matter where the break occurs. Disconnect the negative terminal of your cars battery - then try to start it. :laugh2:

Here's the other two switch positions, to make it easier to visualize whats happening.

Coils split:

Neck selected:

 

[Artie]

Re: Need some help! Double coil split

what limitations of the switch are preventing this from being the case?

The "limitations" are that, for the functionality that you want, we need to ground the red/white combo of each p'up, in the middle position of the switch. There aren't enough terminals to perform "hot" switching and "ground" switching - so . . . no problem, we'll just perform "ground" switching instead.

It accomplishes the same thing.

Edit: It may be hard to see, but in each drawing, there's a thin "white" wire, (designated in light gray), running beside each red wire. My drawing matches the color code of the Alnico II Pro's that you're getting.

 

[Nem]

Re: Need some help! Double coil split

ahh i see!
you see there are terminals at both ends which arent used? does it make a difference if you wired say the ground wires to the end temrinals or not? basically does it make a different where you wire the things as long as the order is kept the same? like, how do you know which terminals the switch accesses when its in a certain position?

and sorry to be so anal about this but i was always taught at school that if i wanted a switch in a circuit it should always go on the live wire because if its on the ground or any other wire, then there would still be current flowing through the live thus making is 'hazardous', i got a detention once cos i didnt listen to him lol

so what would this thing look like if we were to cut the live instead of the ground?

 

[Artie]

Re: Need some help! Double coil split

ahh i see!
you see there are terminals at both ends which arent used? does it make a difference if you wired say the ground wires to the end temrinals or not? basically does it make a different where you wire the things as long as the order is kept the same? like, how do you know which terminals the switch accesses when its in a certain position?

Actually, they are used, just not in the way you think. In electronics, not selecting something, can be as important as selecting something. Those terminals are where one contact rests, so that the "other" contact can select the "other" p'up.

Its important that you wire it exactly as I show. Perhaps tomorrow, I can make this into a more "pictoral" style diagram to make it easier to understand. (I'm going to bed shortly.)

and sorry to be so anal about this but i was always taught at school that if i wanted a switch in a circuit it should always go on the live wire because if its on the ground or any other wire, then there would still be current flowing through the live thus making is 'hazardous', i got a detention once cos i didnt listen to him lol

If you were wiring up a lamp, that would be correct. Because you risk the possibility of you creating the path to ground.

In electronics, and general signal flow applications, switching ground is quite normal. In fact, the vast majority of "logic", (as in your computer), works on the principal of "negated" active states. Almost every action within your computer is idle while held high, or "hot", and then pulled low, to cause an action.

so what would this thing look like if we were to cut the live instead of the ground?

It would look good - it just wouldn't work. :laugh2:

Trust me.

 

[Artie]

Re: Need some help! Double coil split

It would look good - it just wouldn't work. :laugh2:

Trust me.

You know, on second thought, it might. But I need to get to bed. Let me double-check all this tomorrow, and I'll post back.

It just might.

Edit: Ok . . . I remember why I did it this way. Its to make it match the way SD selects split coils in their diagrams. We can certainly switch the "hot" if you want to, it just means you'll be using a different set of singles than SD normally shows. Its the difference between selecting the adjustable coils, or the slug coils.

 

[Artie]

Re: Need some help! Double coil split

Ok, I just did this real quick. This is how it would look switched "hot". It should work.

I'll look at it again in the morning.

 

[Nem]

Re: Need some help! Double coil split

oh so basically, if i wanted to cut the live wire, all i need to do is take one of the diagrams u drew, and swap the green and black lines around?

and depending on whether you cut the green line or the black line would determine whether youre activating the inside OR outside coil of the humbucker? is that correct?

 

[Kent S.]

Re: Need some help! Double coil split

Yeah Art, it will work, although (assuming he installing the pups in normal position adjustable poles on the outer coils) he won't be hum-cancelling in the middle position. He has to flip the magnet on the neck (in this case pup), and the reverse the phase and tap point. Here this lets the pups stay grounded, be hum-cancelling, and be in phase. Sorry about doin' the cut paste shuffle with your schem Art ...


(Image deleted for server cleaning by author.)

 

[Kent S.]

Re: Need some help! Double coil split

Also, if you just want to turn the pup around (neck) rather than reverse the magnet ... wire it like this ... I couldn't get the inner coils colour coded, but you know which ones they are.


(Image deleted for server cleaning by author.)

 

[Artie]

Re: Need some help! Double coil split

Sorry about doin' the cut paste shuffle with your schem Art ...

Not only do I not mind, I appreciate it very much when you double-check me.

I'ld hate to have someone spend hours rewiring their guitar with one of my "mistakes".

 

[Artie]

Re: Need some help! Double coil split

Here's a quick "photo-ized" version showing my original plan, but with "hot" switched.

This just gives the basic idea. Look at Kent's mod's and choose what you want.

 

[Nem]

Re: Need some help! Double coil split

erm, ok, this is a bit confusing atm

those 2 last diagrams, are they both hum cancelling? and whats all this about flipping magnets and pickups?

 

[Artie]

Re: Need some help! Double coil split

Yeah, to be honest, I sorta follow what Kent's saying, but I'm not positive. I've never seen the black and green shorted together before.

Maybe Kent will pop back in and elaborate on that a bit.

In the mean time, I'll study his diagram and see what I can figure out. I'm sure its nothing too weird. :laugh2:

 

[Nem]

Re: Need some help! Double coil split

lol i only just noticed that black and green thing, i woulda thought if u touched those 2 together the current would just travel down the ground

i was more confused about having to switch and flip magnet directions? do i need to figure out how to do this? or is it already done in those diagrams?

 

[Artie]

Re: Need some help! Double coil split

From an electrical point of view, a humbucker looks like #1.
But electricity doesn't care whether its connected like #2.

I think I understand why Kent did this, but I'ld rather he explained it.

 

[Nem]

Re: Need some help! Double coil split

tbh i dont even see a difference lol im simple minded like that

 

[Artie]

Re: Need some help! Double coil split

tbh i dont even see a difference lol im simple minded like that

Its just that, a humbucker is two single-coils attached together. One coil has green and red wires. One has black and white wires. On a two-conductor HB, the red and white are connected internally. You don't even have access to them. On a 4-wire HB, you have access to all four wires, thus, you can connect them either way. That is, in the above diagram, the "stud" coil on top, or the "adjustable" coil on top.

Thats the essence of the difference between Kent's drawing and mine.
Which he did to achieve noise-cancelling mode when you have the two singles selected.

I know it gets complicated.