Needed wah terminology <=> English translation

[Rich_S]

I'm fooling around with my old Cry Baby - it needed a pot, and I wanted true bypass (it's an older pedal with no buffer - the board's nearly identical to a Vox 847). I also added an LED.

While I had it apart, I decided to try some of the commonly-recommended mods. Mods I've performed include a Whipple inductor, the "vocal" mod, the "gain and bass" mod, and the "midrange" mod.

But, the joke's on me - I don't like the result. So now I have to figure out which mod(s) to take back out. I don't want to proceed exclusively by trial-and-error, because too much soldering will eventually start lifting pads off the board.

The problem is, I don't understand wah tonal terminology. I hear a characteristic, but can't translate what I hear into words that I can recognize from the web pages that illustrate the mods.

What the hell does "vocal" mean, anyway?

Here's my complaint with my CB as it now stands. To me it sounds "peaky" - as I sweep it, it seems to make one note at a time jump WAY out, and muffle all the others. I think I want a broader band of frequencies boosted rather than a single frequency.

I'm not talking about the sweep range - that's fine - but it's the width of the boost that's bothering me.

For comparison, I have two of my boss' wahs here - a recent-issue Cry Baby, and a Vox 847. His Cry Baby is the least "peaky" of the bunch (a good thing in my book), but it's very lifeless and dull sounding. The Vox sounds pretty good - it's got a bit of the peaky thing goin' on, but not as much as my Cry Baby. The Vox is a good compromise of lively sound and "not too peaky".

Interestingly, the Vox appears to have all the resistor values my CB did before I started modding it.

Any insights or suggestions on a path backward would be apprececiated.

 

[Rich_S]

Re: Needed wah terminology <=> English translation

Oh, and for your entertainment - the results of three late nights of wah-pedal-moddin' foolishness. From left to right, my old Cry Baby (groovy purple LED!), my boss' Vox (true bypass, 9-volt jack, and an LED) and his Cry Baby (new ICAR pot and an LED).

DO NOT PLAY THESE PEDALS AT OUTDOOR GIGS AFTER DARK. They will try to land airplanes on you.

 

[Jay 77]

Re: Needed wah terminology <=> English translation

How do you add an LED without changing anything else internally? I hate not being able to see if mine's on or not (yes I know I can hear the difference)...

 

[Rich_S]

Re: Needed wah terminology <=> English translation

You have to change the switch. I use the common blue 3PDT, one pole for the LED, and two poles left for the true bypass, if desired. The red-light Cry Baby on the right has a buffer, so I didn't do the true bypass mod, and the switch has one pole unused. The other (slightly) tricky part is figuring out where to pick up the 9-volt power for the LED.

 

[Jay 77]

Re: Needed wah terminology <=> English translation

You have to change the switch. I use the common blue 3PDT, one pole for the LED, and two poles left for the true bypass, if desired. The red-light Cry Baby on the right has a buffer, so I didn't do the true bypass mod, and the switch has one pole unused. The other (slightly) tricky part is figuring out where to pick up the 9-volt power for the LED.

Awesome, thanks. Any idea where I could find a schematic at all?

 

[phil_104]

Re: Needed wah terminology <=> English translation

Awesome, thanks. Any idea where I could find a schematic at all?

I was wondering this as well, as I want to add an LED to my Crybaby 535Q.

I feel it is almost a must on a wah, but somehow get's overlooked way to often.

 

[Rich_S]

Re: Needed wah terminology <=> English translation

You don't really need one. I can tell you where to hook stuff up based on a clear photo of the innards. This page is a big help in identifying the various revisions of Cry Baby.

 

[phil_104]

Re: Needed wah terminology <=> English translation

You don't really need one. I can tell you where to hook stuff up based on a clear photo of the innards. This page is a big help in identifying the various revisions of Cry Baby.

Man, if you could provide basic pictorial instruction on how to install a basic LED to a wah pedal without any other internal mods, not only would that be super vault worthy, you would be my personal hero, as well as make other people happy.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Needed wah terminology <=> English translation

It sounds like you might want to do away with the vocal mod...it sounds like your Crybaby is closer in tone to an old Vox wah now, this is a good thing in my book but it sounds like you disagree...that peaky nature is something I LOVE about vintage Vox wahs. It is possible that the inductor had that effect but I doubt it...

Anyway, good luck and let this be a lesson to all you tweakers out there...only change ONE thing at a time, that way if you don't like it you can easily go back!:smack:

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: Needed wah terminology <=> English translation

The Q is step on those oldies....cap and resistor changes.
Anyways....I never tinker with wahs....lol

 

[Rich_S]

Re: Needed wah terminology <=> English translation

After reading R.G. Keen's page on wah pedals, I'm thinking it's the 33K -> 68K "vocal" mod I'm hearing.

I like Keen because he writes in engineerish, in which I am fluent. None of this "vocal" crap. He says:

This resistor is the primary determiner of the Q, or sharpness of the bandpass/resonance effect of the filter Values lower than 33K make the filter less sharp, reducing the quality of the wah effect. Values up to 100K contribute to sharper, peakier, more resonant tones.

Now THAT, I understand. LOL

Anyway, I spend some more time A/B/C'ing the three pedals this afternoon. As TGWIF suggested, I pulled the vocal mod - I think the Whipple inductor had already increased the Q, and the vocal mod was just too much. As it stands, it's still peakier than the stock CB, but not too much.

I also removed the mid boost mod, I like it a little thinner. I left in the bass+gain mod, it helps prevent volume loss when the pedal is pulled back.

So, I'm declaring it finished. Now I can put it back in the junk drawer, since there's no room on my pedalboard, and I hardly ever use a wah anyway.:smack:

It's nice to have one around, though. I'll be sure to take it with me to the big reunion gig next month, in case the band change their minds and decide to do "The Spirit of Radio ".

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: Needed wah terminology <=> English translation


A man who is straight to the point!
Always has been like that.

 

[James Rock]

Re: Needed wah terminology <=> English translation

Other then the peakyness did you find the whipple inductor to improve other aspects? Or at least when everything is tweaked cvan you tell me if it was worth it? My vox wah just sound a little weak and not smooth enough at the moment.

 

[Rich_S]

Re: Needed wah terminology <=> English translation

You know, I'm really a "wah guy" so I didn't use it much before I started modding. It's just one of those things it's good to have around, right? Unfortunately, that makes before/after comparisons difficult.

I don't think these mods are going to make your Vox smoother - they seem to go the other way. At least in my book, peaky is the oppsoite of smooth.

The Whipple inductor was a hassle - my particular Cry Baby had about four sets of holes for inductor leads, and the Whipple didn't line up with ANY of them. I ended up having to drill a couple of new holes, and connect it with little jumpers under the board.

I think you'll get the most bang for your buck just swapping resistors - they're cheap and reversible. Read Keen's page on wahs - he does a better job explaining the effects of component swaps, whereas most other wah-mod pages just say "do this, because everybody else does".

The Vox definitely benefits from the true bypass mod - it doesn't have the buffer that Dunlop has added to modern Cry Babies.