new cab or what?

[FuseG4]

I play a Vox Night Train thru a Vox 1x12 with a greenback. I'm noticing the limits of a single greenback. Very directional sound, and a lack of low end. The breakup is great for medium gain stuff but it's not the best for high gain/high volume playing. I want a wider fatter sound and to me that sounds like a cab problem. The amp itself is great, because at 15W it has some nice headroom and the cleans are chimey and clear, while the gain is fat and has a great punch.
Anyways I was bored and started demoing amps today at the local shop and most of what they had was Peavey Heads and peavey 4x12s. While the windsor head wasn't the best thing ever, the experience of playing a 4x12 really opened my eyes. I'd never played a 4x12 before today.

So what should I do? thinking of a few things:
1. buy an inexpensive plywood extension cab and run it in parallel w/ the GB. A blackheart cab or something. I can switch speakers later.
2. buy a second vox greenback cab, for use in parallel. So, 2 GB's
3. ditch the vox cab and get a 2x12. A custom job isn't out of the question, i guess. It'd be easier to buy something stock and throw better speakers in later
4. ditch the vox cab and buy an inexpensive 4x12. Take the stock speakers as they are for the meantime and throw eminences or celestions in later.

I can't afford a really good 4x12 so that's out. But 4x12s make me feel like a big man, and that's important!

Help me figure out the pros and cons of each choice. I'm in college and don't have a ton of $$$!

So far I'm thinking a second 1x12 cab makes sense. i can play the one cab when I need to watch the volume, but I can add the second cab when the roommates are out and the neighbors are at work.

A 2x12 should have more of that "bigger sound" i'm looking for, as the cab itself is bigger.

a 4x12 might be overkill for the house and a b*tch to lug around. But they have what I'm looking for in spades.

 

[GoDrex]

Re: new cab or what?

I have a 2x12 - it's awesome. I used to have a 4x12, it was also awesome, but big and heavy and hard to fit in certain cars. I really like a 2x12 with two different complimentary speakers. For a low wattage amp a 2x12 is just about perfect, IMO. Get an Avatar with an open back and the extra board to be able to close it up.

 

[J Moose]

Re: new cab or what?

I have a pair of 2x12 cabs... one open back THD & a closed back Rivera. Sold my last 4x12 many years ago & don't miss 'em one bit. Probably 90% of the time it was too big, too loud and way too directional. The physical size of the cabinet has a lot to do with the final tone, small cabs usually sound 'boxy' by design no matter what speakers are in there. For me the 2x12 was the best trade-off between volume, tone and last and somewhat least, portability.

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: new cab or what?

If you go with an extension cab, then load it with a G12H30. More bottom end punch, but still close to a GB.

However, I like the idea of a 2x12 better. Adding another small 1x12 cab is almost like more of the same. A 2x12 with it's larger cab size just does it better. Is the night train a head or combo? (I don't know a lot of things about modern gear as you can see) If it's a combo then take the chasis and build a head cab for it and use it with seperate 2x12 cab or a serperate extra large cabinet size 1x12.

 

[FuseG4]

Re: new cab or what?

If you go with an extension cab, then load it with a G12H30. More bottom end punch, but still close to a GB.

However, I like the idea of a 2x12 better. Adding another small 1x12 cab is almost like more of the same. A 2x12 with it's larger cab size just does it better. Is the night train a head or combo? (I don't know a lot of things about modern gear as you can see) If it's a combo then take the chasis and build a head cab for it and use it with seperate 2x12 cab or a serperate extra large cabinet size 1x12.

It is a head. Looks more like a toaster than most other "toaster" amps.

 

[FuseG4]

Re: new cab or what?

Yeah, I like the 2x12 idea more and more. I heard the matchless combo is a g12H30 + a greenback?
I do like the idea of a g12h30, maybe with a greenback... Some big bass with enough power to not break up as much as the greenback, and a greenback for breakup...
I'd like a weber cab... they have lots of options and a good reputation.

All this sounds expensive... but enticing!

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: new cab or what?

el84s and only 15 watts of power will never deliver thunderous low end like 6l6s or even el34s and big iron transformers. That is not to say that el84 powered 15w amp dont sound great...its just horses for courses.
Try a second hand celestion G12m70, g12t75 or a G12H100 or something like that for fatter bass and a generally darker, chunkier tone. Those higher wattage more modern speakers will all do it. You can always resell it if it doesnt sound good - or you can put it in a cheap 1x12 cab as an extension.

 

[FuseG4]

Re: new cab or what?

Yeah I sure do need to try some other speakers somehow. The greenback is just like the amp itself. It's got clear highs but this low end that's a lil compressed. The mids are great though.
I guess I'm not looking for a TON of bass, just enough to sort of stick some more definition with the bass response I've got now, and to move a lil more air.
Sometime I will get something else with el34s for the louder, gainier marshall kind of brit flavour, but so far I have to keep this night train as it has the best clean and light to medium crunch tones I've heared from anything under a $1000 besides the Deluxe Reverb RI.

 

[Fikealox]

Re: new cab or what?

I think you'd be happy with a 2x12 with a G12M and a G12H. There're a number of different manufacturers (Laney, VHT, etc) making decent, reasonably cheap G12H-loaded 2x12s (and they should be even cheaper used).

[edit: I notice the NT cab is open-back. Have you tried blocking it off or setting it against a wall to increase bass response? It probably won't help with the "directional" feel, but it might be something cheap/free to try if you haven't already]

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: new cab or what?

Putting in a gutsier speaker will not give you a ton of bass, it will just colour what your amp is putting out differently.

 

[FuseG4]

Re: new cab or what?

Right I'm not looking for a complete overhaul on my bass response, but just a lil more emphasis on the lows.

 

[Reload in 5]

Re: new cab or what?

Check out avatar. Loaded 2x12 is just over $400 shipped.

 

[phil_104]

Re: new cab or what?

el84s and only 15 watts of power will never deliver thunderous low end like 6l6s or even el34s and big iron transformers. That is not to say that el84 powered 15w amp dont sound great...its just horses for courses.

This. I tried adding more speakers to my EL84 rig last week, and ended up returning the second 2x12, and changing the amp.

If you are 100% happy with the amp, and want a different bass response, you might want to look into a mesa 2x12 rect cab. They are oversized, have a realy nice bass end, and sound bigger than they are (and they are big to start with). If you are looking at a custom build, I would look into those specs.

 

[FuseG4]

Re: new cab or what?

Maybe I should look at buying a second amp.

The night train still does it's mild-crunch british chimey vox thing like crazy. I was playing the other day, thinking about what I should do and if I really want to change speakers.

I kinda realized that only when I push the gain in the thick mode does the bass seem inadequate. It IS that el84 compression. I should just love the amp for what it's good for and not worry about using every ounce of gain the amp has.

Man, I want a Haze 40 or something. Not as much gain as some of the other marshalls but for a combo amp in that $ range it's nice. It's like a british-voiced hot rod deluxe

 

[mwalluk]

Re: new cab or what?

i have a 2x12 - it's awesome. I used to have a 4x12, it was also awesome, but big and heavy and hard to fit in certain cars. I really like a 2x12 with two different complimentary speakers. For a low wattage amp a 2x12 is just about perfect, imo. Get an avatar with an open back and the extra board to be able to close it up.

+100000000000000000000000000000

 

[sbecker67]

Re: new cab or what?

Check out avatar. Loaded 2x12 is just over $400 shipped.

+1.

OR; I have two 2x12's from Geezer (http://www.geezersoundco.com) which are constructed every bit as good as an Avatar or any other name brand cab. He's a small builder and will use your choice of speaker but at a very affordable price. I paid $300 for each, +shipping, so the pair came in below $700.00 with Celestion's in each. That was 6 years ago but even with inflation it should come out less than an Avatar.

 

[Empty Pockets]

Re: new cab or what?

Y'know it's still probably not "enough" for really high gain sounds, but at my shop we've got the Night Train sitting on top of a Marshall 1960A Lead cabinet and there is plenty of lowend.

Just playing the devil's advocate like always but, c'mon man, more speakers = more tone!

 

[FuseG4]

Re: new cab or what?

I'm so conflicted, but leaning towards keeping the night train and getting a bigger cab.
Playing today and comparing the thick mode and bright mode, and finding something kinda unexpected. The thick mode has more gain available, but a much, much punchier sound comes from boosting the bright mode or using the dirt pedal for gain into the bright mode with the gain up. Setting my EQ on the amp to full all around, and using an eq pedal in front to shape the tone, I'm squeezing a lil more thump and clarity than i thought I had before.
I think a new cab would go really well. Just the same tones but bigger and louder.

 

[Reload in 5]

Re: new cab or what?

Y'know it's still probably not "enough" for really high gain sounds, but at my shop we've got the Night Train sitting on top of a Marshall 1960A Lead cabinet and there is plenty of lowend.

Just playing the devil's advocate like always but, c'mon man, more speakers = more tone!

Same with a modded Valve Jr into a 1960a

 

[Empty Pockets]

Re: new cab or what?

^^ we used to run a Valve Junior on top of a beat-up old 4x12 as the "rhythm rig" in my jam room back in SLC...we had my Bassman / SUNN 4x12 with a few dirt pedals as the "lead rig." The Valve Junior rig had no problem keeping up for medium-gain dirt tones...sometimes threw an OD in front to give it a bit more cut.

Low watt amps through big speakers can do impressive things :smokin: