New (free!) tube day for my Ace! (Noob question included!)

[phil_104]

Hey dudes!

So my dad's friend, a long time guitar player, hears that I got this new EL34 driven amp, the Stiletto Ace. He visits my dad, and hands me a set of boxes, with tubes inside, saying he picked those up at some point, but doesn'T have any amps that require this sort of tube.

So I check em out online, and on the Mesa forum, and it turns out that this specific set is often suggested, and sounds really, really good in my amp!

Anyways, here comes the noob, embarrassing question : I have never had a tube amp long enough that I was required the actually change the tubes. I have played many amps, with many different tubes in them, and know quite a bit about the differences, but I have never actually changed tubes.

So for these, I assume like any other power tube it's just a question of pulling out the power tubes carefully, and dropping these in (without touching the tubes with my hands of course). What I am curious about, is the fact that this is a matched set, and the boxes have ''R'' and ''L'' hand written on the top. This surely has to do with what tube I drop in which socket, but I just want to make sure. If somebody could clear that up for me, it would be great.

If there are any other tips you guys could give me, or small things I need to know, that would be great.

I can't wait to compare them to the original Mesa tubes.

 

[zzmoore]

Re: New (free!) tube day for my Ace! (Noob question included!)

There is no reason for you not to "touch" a vacuum tube, there is no reason/need to wear gloves.
I have never seen the R and L before. Perhaps this was the orientation from a previous test amp? It should have no bearing on your situation.
Best

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: New (free!) tube day for my Ace! (Noob question included!)

zzmoore pretty much covered what I was going to say, but I will add: please let me know what you think after the tube swap.

I've had my Ace for almost two years now. It may be due for a power tube swap soon, but I've been running it in Spongy mode almost the entire time, which is a lot easier on the tubes.

 

[phil_104]

Re: New (free!) tube day for my Ace! (Noob question included!)

Thanks for the info gents, and RD, I will let you know. I don't know what kind of difference I will see, but hopefully it will be interesting.

 

[trevorus]

Re: New (free!) tube day for my Ace! (Noob question included!)

You might need to have the bias adjusted. The bias on a tube amp sets how much current can flow through the tube, too much and you can burn up the tubes fast, too little and it can sound bad.

 

[Koreth]

Re: New (free!) tube day for my Ace! (Noob question included!)

The bias on a Boogie does not adjust. It is a fixed voltage from the power supply. Mesa's way of thinking is that to include an adjustable bias which could be mis-set, or drift out of spec to accomodate the wide range of tubes, some of which are so far-off spec they never should be used to begin with makes little sense. A far more reliable way to do things would be to set the bias at a fixed value and match tubes that are within spec and draw the correct amount of idle current to begin with. Thus you end up with a more reliable set-up.

Unfortunately, the stock bias current on many Boogies is on the cool-to-cold side of things to maximize tube life where many techs would set the tubes to run warmer for a better sound. Some people don't care for the sound of a cold-biased power amp. Others are convinced that Mesa doesn't give a damn about how the sound quality of their power amps suffers from a fixed cold bias and insist that Mesa is out to make a profit on tubes, citing the relatively higher price of a Mesa tube to that of some other brands available.

 

[trevorus]

Re: New (free!) tube day for my Ace! (Noob question included!)

Truthfully, the bias is adjustable if you get adventurous with a soldering iron... heh... That would actually be one of my first mods to an amplifier like that is to put in a pot to adjust the bias on it. I suppose the factory non-adjustability of the bias makes things simpler from the player's standpoint, but I build/mod amplifiers, so that wouldn't stay like that long inmy hands!

 

[phil_104]

Re: New (free!) tube day for my Ace! (Noob question included!)

So I'll interpret all of that in the following manner : In many amps, I would have to worry about adjustments, but since I own a Mesa, the nice guys down at the factory set it up, so all I have to do is plug the tubes in, and worry about playing guitar.

I like this ''fixed bias'' thing, since I don't mess around with an iron to much, and I'm all about convenience and playing.

So what I'm gonna do, is cook a steak on my BBQ, come back inside, play the amp as is for about 30 mins, then change the tubes, and play it exactly the same way, with my dad around, and we are going to compare notes, and come up with a concrete answer of what has changed in the sound.

Also, RD, I'll be using your settings, so my observations will be spot on to what you are hearing.

 

[Koreth]

Re: New (free!) tube day for my Ace! (Noob question included!)

So I'll interpret all of that in the following manner : In many amps, I would have to worry about adjustments, but since I own a Mesa, the nice guys down at the factory set it up, so all I have to do is plug the tubes in, and worry about playing guitar.

I like this ''fixed bias'' thing, since I don't mess around with an iron to much, and I'm all about convenience and playing.

Yes and no. A Mesa branded tube will plug right in and go as they've been matched at the factory to draw the factory spec current at idle. Tubes sold by a vendor that have matched for a boogie will also go right in. However, not any old tube may go right in without issue. Since tube specs can vary wildly, any tubes that have not been tested and matched for your amp may run too hot or too cold. Too cold, and you'll get some nasty sounding crossover distorion from the power amp. Too hot, and the tube will overheat and self destruct, possibly taking other parts in the amp with it.

When you plug the new tubes in, keep an eye on them. If any part of the tube's plates start to glow, stop playing and shut the amp down; they're running too hot for your amp.

 

[phil_104]

Re: New (free!) tube day for my Ace! (Noob question included!)

Yes and no. A Mesa branded tube will plug right in and go as they've been matched at the factory to draw the factory spec current at idle. Tubes sold by a vendor that have matched for a boogie will also go right in. However, not any old tube may go right in without issue. Since tube specs can vary wildly, any tubes that have not been tested and matched for your amp may run too hot or too cold. Too cold, and you'll get some nasty sounding crossover distorion from the power amp. Too hot, and the tube will overheat and self destruct, possibly taking other parts in the amp with it.

When you plug the new tubes in, keep an eye on them. If any part of the tube's plates start to glow, stop playing and shut the amp down; they're running too hot for your amp.

Thanks for the heads up man. I'll keep that in mind.

 

[phil_104]

Re: New (free!) tube day for my Ace! (Noob question included!)

Alright, my observation :

- The cleans with these tubes are UNREAL. Full bodies, smooth, with a chime like top end, and definition like I have never heard in a non-fender amp.
- The distortion on the other hand, gets the short end of the stick. The best way to describe it can be that it went from beefy to more buzzy. More definition sure, but at the cost of that brit growl that I like. I know the power tube influence is not as important as preamp tubes, but I really didn't dig what they did to the sound.

So yeah, the tubes spent about 1h in the amp, and out they go.

 

[trevorus]

Re: New (free!) tube day for my Ace! (Noob question included!)

If you're looking to get rid of them, let me know!

 

[phil_104]

Re: New (free!) tube day for my Ace! (Noob question included!)

If you're looking to get rid of them, let me know!

I might just keep them around as backup. I gig a lot, so they are never bad to have around, just in case.

Man, I was so hopeful after plugging in the clean channel. It was sooo brilliant. But the distortion was so ''lean''. Had no balls to it. I'm disappointed.

 

[trevorus]

Re: New (free!) tube day for my Ace! (Noob question included!)

Aight, if you change your mind, let me know. I currently have JJ's in my homebrew plexi combo and it's tasty, sweet cleans, and raw distortion.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: New (free!) tube day for my Ace! (Noob question included!)

The bias on a Boogie does not adjust. It is a fixed voltage from the power supply. Mesa's way of thinking is that to include an adjustable bias which could be mis-set, or drift out of spec to accomodate the wide range of tubes, some of which are so far-off spec they never should be used to begin with makes little sense. A far more reliable way to do things would be to set the bias at a fixed value and match tubes that are within spec and draw the correct amount of idle current to begin with. Thus you end up with a more reliable set-up.

Unfortunately, the stock bias current on many Boogies is on the cool-to-cold side of things to maximize tube life where many techs would set the tubes to run warmer for a better sound. Some people don't care for the sound of a cold-biased power amp. Others are convinced that Mesa doesn't give a damn about how the sound quality of their power amps suffers from a fixed cold bias and insist that Mesa is out to make a profit on tubes, citing the relatively higher price of a Mesa tube to that of some other brands available.

That's the Mesa tone: a blazing hot preamp slamming into a cold power amp. That's part of what makes Mesas what they are. It's one of those love it or hate it things, I guess.

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: New (free!) tube day for my Ace! (Noob question included!)

Alright, my observation :

- The cleans with these tubes are UNREAL. Full bodies, smooth, with a chime like top end, and definition like I have never heard in a non-fender amp.
- The distortion on the other hand, gets the short end of the stick. The best way to describe it can be that it went from beefy to more buzzy. More definition sure, but at the cost of that brit growl that I like. I know the power tube influence is not as important as preamp tubes, but I really didn't dig what they did to the sound.

So yeah, the tubes spent about 1h in the amp, and out they go.

This is a case of the tubes not running within the bias tolerances of your non -adjustable bias amp.

 

[phil_104]

Re: New (free!) tube day for my Ace! (Noob question included!)

This is a case of the tubes not running within the bias tolerances of your non -adjustable bias amp.

It's probably not as bad as I make it sound. I've heard plenty of people who's amps sound exactly like the result of the tube swap. It's just not what I am looking for.

 

[DankStar]

Re: New (free!) tube day for my Ace! (Noob question included!)

The bias on a Boogie does not adjust. It is a fixed voltage from the power supply. Mesa's way of thinking is that to include an adjustable bias which could be mis-set, or drift out of spec to accomodate the wide range of tubes, some of which are so far-off spec they never should be used to begin with makes little sense. A far more reliable way to do things would be to set the bias at a fixed value and match tubes that are within spec and draw the correct amount of idle current to begin with. Thus you end up with a more reliable set-up.

Unfortunately, the stock bias current on many Boogies is on the cool-to-cold side of things to maximize tube life where many techs would set the tubes to run warmer for a better sound. Some people don't care for the sound of a cold-biased power amp. Others are convinced that Mesa doesn't give a damn about how the sound quality of their power amps suffers from a fixed cold bias and insist that Mesa is out to make a profit on tubes, citing the relatively higher price of a Mesa tube to that of some other brands available.

I'm just trying to wrap my head around this here:

boogies can't be bias-adjusted, you just pop the tubes in there and hope for the best? and if you go with a non-boogie "brand" tube (I know, same tubes as the rest with a boogie logo on it) you'd have to figure out the specs to make 'em work? god, that's weird. why haven't I heard about this more. while it's kinda cool (no need for biasing/opening up the amp), it kinda sucks (have to go with boogie "brand" tubes). sort of makes me want to get a boogie now though. I hate taking amps into an amp tech for biasing. it would save money in the long run I'd think, even if boogie tubes cost a bit more.

 

[phil_104]

Re: New (free!) tube day for my Ace! (Noob question included!)

boogies can't be bias-adjusted, you just pop the tubes in there and hope for the best? and if you go with a non-boogie "brand" tube (I know, same tubes as the rest with a boogie logo on it) you'd have to figure out the specs to make 'em work? god, that's weird. why haven't I heard about this more. while it's kinda cool (no need for biasing/opening up the amp), it kinda sucks (have to go with boogie "brand" tubes).

In retrospect though, and after putting the Mesa Branded tubes back in, why mess with something that isn't broken.

Got to really open up the volume yesterday. It sounds AWESOME!

 

[DankStar]

Re: New (free!) tube day for my Ace! (Noob question included!)

Got to really open up the volume yesterday. It sounds AWESOME!

I bet, cool!