New pickups for my dual humbucker #1 -- Seth in the Neck, but what in the BRIDGE?

[checkoutguitargeorge]

What an informative and sometimes wildly entertaining forum!

I know this type of question gets asked all the time. Of course, everybody's circumstances are a wee bit different. Here's mine:

About to do a long overdue update and upgrade for my #1 guitar. In 1999, left the single coil world after Strats, Teles, and clones since the late 70s. Bought a Terry McInturff Polaris Pro -- absolutely love the guitar and playing on it; never loved the Terry proprietary TCM Zodiacs buckers that he worked on with DiMarzio (I believe). For those unfamiliar with the guitar, looks a bit like an SG (but with a much heavier premium chunk o'mahogany body, Rosewood board, and with a 25.125" scale length). Oh, and the Polaris Pro had a maple top/cap, one of the differentiators from the standard Polaris. To my ears, the Zodiacs were a bit of a compromise -- low output (ALNICO 2, I think) -- and that's great, but a little wooly/mushy in the neck, a little jangly in the bridge, however with a better split coil sound than many at the #2 and #4 positions. I rarely play another guitar that feels better, but I often play guitars where I really like their pups better (including my son's DeArmond Starfire, a semi-hollow Guild Starfire clone that we swapped Seth neck and bridge into.

I do LOVE a Seth Lover in the neck. I think it's an ideal pickup for the guitar (in fact, Terry outfitted early versions of his Polaris Pro with the Seth before he started using the Zodiac). I play mostly blues (tinged with a bit of jazz) and blues rock. Same stuff I've been playing since the college band days. Just the occasional jam these days; mostly just me in my jammies (far less interesting band-mates, but much more reliable).

SO THE QUESTION ...
While I'm fairly certain I'm going with Seth in the Neck, I'm leaning away from Seth in the Bridge. Don't love it on my son's semi-hollow. Haven't loved it on sound clips. While it's a sonic EQ match, can't imagine I'd use it a lot and would pretty much stick to the Neck.

Professional level friends and contacts have recommended many of the usual suspects for the Bridge (besides the Seth) for me, for my guitar, and for my desired sound -- most often 59s, AL2Ps, and PGs. I've listened to clips for weeks. Played a friend's LP Standard with a 59 Bridge. And read every thread on every forum I could. A bit of paralysis by over-analysis setting in, but I don't really feel that any of these three will move me away from using the Seth Bridge almost all of the time.

Recently, I've been thinking that the WLH and the SNS are in some ways simply hotter Seths (minor variations of course, but fairly similar in the EQ). Child of the 70s who I am, there is an undeniable pull towards both of these pickups. They seem that they could be that additional sound palette I want when I want to go louder and heavier, but still retain a good deal of clarity (unless I decide to gunk it up myself with amp gain or some vintage sounding pedals).

Seth in neck AND bridge?
Seth in neck and WLH or SNS in bridge?
WLH or SNS in BOTH neck and bridge?
Seth in neck and 59, AL2P, or PG in bridge?

Your input is greatly appreciated!

 

[beaubrummels]

Here's what I've paired with a Seth neck in my SG and LP Studio before, kind of in the order I prefer them for the music you are describing:

Brobucker
59N in the bridge
Jazz bridge
59/Custom hybrid
Custom 5
78 Model
Custom
Custom Custom

Whole Lotta Humbucker would work great with a Seth neck
59 and PG would also work. Basically they are all 59-ish pickups, you are just changing the top end brightness mostly. I'd order them WLH > 59 > PG from warm to bright.
A2P would work, though a 59 with an A4 magnet is a better version of that sound, IME / IMO

I've never had the SNS, so can't comment on those.

 

[checkoutguitargeorge]

Here's what I've paired with a Seth neck in my SG and LP Studio before, kind of in the order I prefer them for the music you are describing:

Whole Lotta Humbucker would work great with a Seth neck
59 and PG would also work. Basically they are all 59-ish pickups, you are just changing the top end brightness mostly. I'd order them WLH > 59 > PG from warm to bright.

Thank you!

The way you expressed that -- all 59-ish, mostly a top end brightness difference -- is the crux of it for me. Know thyself. With rare exceptions, I stay away from "too bright" (subjectively, shrill or jangly or pick your adjective). That gets me to stick to the neck, making adjustments with guitar and amp EQ and pedals. Thought it was time to actually get to know my Bridge PUP and your order (seemingly shared by most) of WLH >59 > PG (warm to bright) is really helpful.

 

[Mincer]

The Seth in the neck does sound great. For the bridge, I'd recommend the Alnico II Pro, or the brighter, hotter WLH if you want more power in the bridge.

 

[hamerfan]

I paired the SethH with an Ant without cover. The magnet is a UOA5. Kinda self-made WLH, I guess.

 

[checkoutguitargeorge]

The Seth in the neck does sound great. For the bridge, I'd recommend the Alnico II Pro, or the brighter, hotter WLH if you want more power in the bridge.

Thanks, Dave. I've liked what I've heard in the AL2P. And it absolutely seems to be a good sonic match, or rather complement, to a Seth in the neck.

As I think it through and project forward, I'm leaning more and more towards WLH in the bridge -- not so much for power or additional brightness -- but there seems to be that intangible 70s period vibe in its EQ. I'm the last one to preach to ANYONE on a forum like this, but there is something to be said for digging in and exploring something that excites you, right? I can likely get more or less what I'm looking to get from a variety of bridge pickups, but starting to feel like the WLH is the one that's going to make me want to really play it. And best playing ensues ... or that's the theory!

By the way, great website. Brian Eno and Fripp & Eno projects helped get me through college and law school. Loved it for sophisticated background knowing that any time I chose, I could shift from passive background listening to active listening, drop my jaw, and be blown away. Fripp's tone, not so much what he plays, is without question part of the 70s feel that seems magically blended into the WLH (and you're correct if it seems I'm talking myself into a decision).

 

[checkoutguitargeorge]

I paired the SethH with an Ant without cover. The magnet is a UOA5. Kinda self-made WLH, I guess.

Thanks, Hamerfan. One of my pro friends did exactly what you're suggesting. Since I'm starting from scratch -- and my engineering talents limited (!) - going with the off-the-shelf WLH makes sense for me.

Love Hamers, by the way. Almost purchased one back in 1999 when I bought my McInturff. I'm sure you know, but Terry McInturff was one of the brain-trust at Hamer before he branched out to create his own guitars. Many similarities as you would expect.

 

[hamerfan]

Thanks, Hamerfan. One of my pro friends did exactly what you're suggesting. Since I'm starting from scratch -- and my engineering talents limited (!) - going with the off-the-shelf WLH makes sense for me.

Love Hamers, by the way. Almost purchased one back in 1999 when I bought my McInturff. I'm sure you know, but Terry McInturff was one of the brain-trust at Hamer before he branched out to create his own guitars. Many similarities as you would expect.

Thanks, didn't know that. But in 1982 I met Paul Hamer and Joel Dantzig at the Frankfurt Music Fair. Since then I am hooked on.

 

[gsammo79]

Get the WLH. It's a more refined '59b

 

[checkoutguitargeorge]

Get the WLH. It's a more refined '59b

Thanks!

"Refined" how? A smidge more mid warmth? It's all so subjective, but the bridge 59 seems clear and articulate, but just a touch sterile (when running clean, of course). That's what my ear hears -- perhaps why I'm a little pushed away from the '59 and drawn to the WLH.

 

[gsammo79]

Thanks!

"Refined" how? A smidge more mid warmth? It's all so subjective, but the bridge 59 seems clear and articulate, but just a touch sterile (when running clean, of course). That's what my ear hears -- perhaps why I'm a little pushed away from the '59 and drawn to the WLH.

More mids with the WLH, but it's not a mid-heavy pickup. The '59b is a good PAF output option and you can get a lot of good tone from it. The WLH sounds like a '59b 2.0 to my ears

 

[checkoutguitargeorge]

More mids with the WLH, but it's not a mid-heavy pickup. The '59b is a good PAF output option and you can get a lot of good tone from it. The WLH sounds like a '59b 2.0 to my ears

Great ... and thanks.

That's what I'm hoping for -- something like the '59, but with a specific kind of (call it what you will) personality, vibe, feel. Love the personality, vibe, feel of JP and much of the blues rock from that era, so if that's the ver 2.0, then I think it's a good direction for this enthusiastic wannabe.

 

[checkoutguitargeorge]

Thanks to all who responded. It was a minor question and of course your own ears and subjective preferences rule, but getting the thoughts of hardcore “tone chasers” was a worthwhile exercise.

Here’s the one-time thread bump with a minor twist.

Pretty much settled on a Seth NECK paired with a Whole Lotta Humbucker BRIDGE. I know myself and my style. I’ll be 75% on the Neck. But when I move to the Bridge, I’m excited about finding great new (to me) tones from the early 70s vibey WLH.

Anybody have a compelling reason why this pairing might not work?

- or -

Why something like a Seth Bridge or ‘59 Bridge might work much better?

One issue I know I’m likely going to face is volume and tone knob maneuvering. My Polaris Pro has one vol, one tone. WLH should be a whole lotta more outputty than the Seth Neck. Guessing I’ll need to generally run the Seth Neck at something like 8-Vol, 8-Tone and get in the habit of quickly rolling down to something like 5-Vol, 5-Tone when I blade switch to the WLH Bridge. Not ideal to be sure, but it’s just the necessary and manageable reality with this pairing.

Best and thanks to all!

 

[beaubrummels]

Anybody have a compelling reason why this pairing might not work?

- or -

Why something like a Seth Bridge or ‘59 Bridge might work much better?

WLH/Seth would not work well if you have an amp that is murky/unclear sounding or poor quality such that it won't reproduce the nuances of both pickups. Also, an amp that has a signature bump of a particular frequency (like a really hot spike of a particular frequency) could cause these two pickups to sound farther apart in EQ by emphasizing one pickup but not the other..

A 59 bridge would work better if you need more treble and a touch less 'thickness'

 

[checkoutguitargeorge]

WLH/Seth would not work well if you have an amp that is murky/unclear sounding or poor quality such that it won't reproduce the nuances of both pickups. Also, an amp that has a signature bump of a particular frequency (like a really hot spike of a particular frequency) could cause these two pickups to sound farther apart in EQ by emphasizing one pickup but not the other..

A 59 bridge would work better if you need more treble and a touch less 'thickness'

Interesting.

Seth in the Neck is kind of my desired go-to sound. Think it should really work with this guitar (it's what Terry McInturff actually started with, but changed it to his proprietary Zodiac, in part, to offer more usable split positions -- and that's really not a factor for me at all).

For the Bridge, my desire was to get something a bit less (for lack of better term) "jangly" than I have now. The '59 has been suggested often, but some have wondered whether I'd still find it a little jangly and shrill in the bridge, but now with even more output than I had before. After A/B comparing on clips (not ideal -- I get it -- but without purchasing both and installing each, there isn't a better solution) my thinking was that WLH in the Bridge was a very similar sound to the '59 in the Bridge, just a bit lighter on the trebles. On paper, that's exactly what I'm looking to do.

Appreciate the input! And recognize that amps will matter a lot here. In a bit of a middle spot with amps as I recently sold a few and undecided on long term valve solution. For right now, it's simply a 90s era Blues Junior (fairly balanced EQ, although some negative issues) and a Roland Blues Cube Hot solid state that is engineered to give a pretty good emulation of the Fender Tweed sound (so, while somewhat scooped, it's a lot more balanced than blacks, silvers, etc.). I tend to use an amp for the clean channel only and use it as a pedal platform for 5-6 favorite pedals, some of which are always on (e.g., my trusty Blues Driver that really helps give the Blues Cube Hot more of a tube amp feel).

 

[beaubrummels]

With a Blues Junior you should be fine. Those are great, even amps and have plenty of tweak-ability with their tone stack. The Roland Cube IME sounds like a second-generation recording of a Tweed to me. But it could be fine. The guitar description sounds like a kind of Les Paul / SG recipe, so I'm basing my responses on my experience putting these pickups in my SG and LP Studio. I wasn't trying to dissuade you, just answer the two questions.

 

[checkoutguitargeorge]

With a Blues Junior you should be fine. Those are great, even amps and have plenty of tweak-ability with their tone stack. The Roland Cube IME sounds like a second-generation recording of a Tweed to me. But it could be fine. The guitar description sounds like a kind of Les Paul / SG recipe, so I'm basing my responses on my experience putting these pickups in my SG and LP Studio. I wasn't trying to dissuade you, just answer the two questions.

All good. I asked a couple of questions hoping for informed opinions and thoughts. No element there of dissuading from my perspective. Some good things to think about. Worse comes to worse, I fiddle with a pickup that isn't quite right or if it just won't do the trick, then replace again. Knowledge is power.

And PS -- the dude absolutely abides!

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Slash bridge is worth considering too. It's a tweaked AL2P. Sings well, cleans up nicely.
A bit more body & drive than the A2P, a little less jangly than the 59B.

Brobucker was another great recommendation. Very PAF-ish yet ever-so-slightly beefier.
Not too hot. Full and rich and not at all congested. Super responsive, one of my favorites..

Either one likely a bit less aggressive in character than the WLH.
Neither one mild or mellow.

 

[gsammo79]

The brobucker mentioned is another good option. It's a custom shop pickup but I've never heard a single complaint about it

 

[checkoutguitargeorge]

Slash bridge is worth considering too. It's a tweaked AL2P. Sings well, cleans up nicely.
A bit more body & drive than the A2P, a little less jangly than the 59B.

Brobucker was another great recommendation. Very PAF-ish yet ever-so-slightly beefier.
Not too hot. Full and rich and not at all congested. Super responsive, one of my favorites..

Either one likely a bit less aggressive in character than the WLH.
Neither one mild or mellow.

Thanks for the input.

I just spent some time playing a bud's LP Standard equipped with the Slash bridge. Clearly a nice articulate pickup with body. But the vibe simply doesn't feel ... me (that's awfully scientific. but the best I can do). It feels more 90s while the WLH definitely has that 70s vibe that this 70's boy hears in his sleep. Perhaps it's more aggressive than I'm prepared for, but I'm not certain that it isn't something that rolling down vol/tone can't handle. While not an LP in weight, my guitar has an awful lot of mahogany to it.

Love the Brobucker comment. I believe I know a guy that has one. Looks like another field-trip is on the horizon.

Thanks, man.