New PUPS for HSH Ash Stratocaster

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savage8190

New member
Well Im a long time reader but first time poster. I am ordering some new pickups for an old Strat I have. Its a Fender Lite Ash Strat with a maple neck. Its a very bright guitar, but its routed for HSH and I want to build something thats good for nice thick gain (think Godsmack, Soundgarden, Alice in Chains). Really, my ideal guitar tone is pretty much what you would get out of a stock Gibson SG Standard, but I dont have the kind of cash to spend on one so Im trying to do something similar....or better...with this guitar. I also have other Strats for some tasty Strat tones, so Im not too worried about retaining that sound.

I am thinking I will do a Custom Custom in the bridge, and I was thinking Id have a Pearly Gates in the neck, but I am still weighing an Alnico II Pro (Although it has a set of APS-1's in it now and they are just weak). For the middle position I was thinking maybe a Classic Stack Plus? Im not really sure on that one though.

The guitar will be wired 7 way so I can use all three at once or just the neck and bridge. It will also be wired for coil tapping.

Any help/thoughts would be awesome!

Thanks!
 
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Re: New PUPS for HSH Ash Stratocaster

You're probably on the right track with the Custom Custom.

Might look at the Five-Two for the middle, that'd give punchy lows but smooth high strings, which you'll likely need on that bright a guitar.

The Classic Stack Plus is basically an SSL-2 without the hum. I'd be nervous about it being too bright in that guitar. If you want a hum-canceller, the STK-S7 Hot Vintage Stack Plus has better odds of working, it's a bit warmer at least.

APH-1 might work, you could try the bridge model in the neck to get a slightly warmer/hotter tone, that should work better in your guitar.
 
Re: New PUPS for HSH Ash Stratocaster

The PATB line would be a perfect fit for that guitar. Bright, thin sounding strat type guitar with trem is exactly what the PATB's were designed to counteract. You get that nice thick humbucker tone. The PATB-3 is more of a PAF sound and output, but it sounds great. The PATB-1 has output similar to the Custom Custom, Custom and Custom 5, but is much thicker and richer. I do really like the CC, but ever since I tried the PATB-1 I have really been sold. It took a superstrat that I had all but written off in terms of getting the Gibson or other thick tones out of that I wanted and turned it into one of my favorite players.

Get the matching neck pickup for the neck bucker, and if you want you can put a PATB Stack in the middle for the matching set.
 
Re: New PUPS for HSH Ash Stratocaster

Thanks for the input guys.

Despair: You make a good point about the classic stack in the middle, I was afraid it might be to bright as well. I may consider the S7 because I dont want a single coil.

Jeff: I had never considered the PATB set. I guess I was really just looking at Alnico II because its warmer, but the PATB's are just a tad hotter and have a very low resonant peak...very interesting. The description of the EQ seems to be a little more along the lines of what Id go for as well...I was concerned about those mids on the custom custom. Would you happen to know of any good sound samples? ....theres not much out there.
 
Re: New PUPS for HSH Ash Stratocaster

There really aren't a lot of good sound samples out there. If you click on my soundclips in my sig, listen to my cover of "Nothing But A Good Time." That was done in my superstrat with a PATB-1 in the bridge.....everything is the PATB-1. My guitar is either soft ash or basswood, depending on who you believe on the net.

It was all done through a Boss GT-6 on the Marshall SLP lead setting, direct to the computer. It's not true tube tone, but it does a decent enough approximation to get an idea of what the tone sounds like. Wish I could point you to more sound samples.

The PATB's do have a more balanced tone and sound a bit more "modern", for lack of a better term. However, my experience is that they do well with both low gain and high gain, as well as doing very decent clean tones as well. Just an all around great pickup in a strat type guitar. I play everything from AC/DC and Free all the way up through 80's metal, STP and a few other modern selections all with the PATB-1 and I think it sounds good for all. If I had to use just one bridge pickup in a cover band right now, it would be my choice. All my opinion of course, FWIW.
 
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Re: New PUPS for HSH Ash Stratocaster

I have a PATB-3 in the bridge of my HSS strat, and I love it. Most of the bands you mentioned short of Godsmack use vintage tinged gear for their sound so the PATB-3 might suit you better. It's warm, thick up the neck, and seems to juts soak up as much gain as you want to put on it.
 
Re: New PUPS for HSH Ash Stratocaster

Just my $.02... since you already have Strats that make "Strat" sounds, why not ditch the single in the middle and just do an HH one? You can coil tap the humbuckers and get single-like tones and it wouldn't look so cluttered and you'd have less magnets pulling on the strings. I never really understood the whole Ibanez HSH thing myself...
 
Re: New PUPS for HSH Ash Stratocaster

HSH can be nice for more varied tones out of one guitar, but it is harder to get all the pickups to mesh together. HH or HSS tend to be a lot less frustrating.

I absolutely love the PATB-1b, have one in my basswood Ibanez RG570, but while it's got particularly good sounding highs, it isn't lacking in them, though they are unusually controllable. It's beefy, but not dark. I'm not sure that'd work right in a particularly bright ash. But if it did, it'd be more flexible than the Custom Custom.
 
Re: New PUPS for HSH Ash Stratocaster

Yeah, I'm sold on the PATB design... ingenius poles for reducing mag pull. The custom wind/magnet possibilities are drool-inducing indeed.

I understand the flexibility argument, but another thing to consider, is the sheer amount of magnets pulling on the strings. Seems like a potential vibration killer in my view. I mean, a very large proportion of Jem and RG users prefer high-gain, where the amp produces sustain, so it's probably a moot point in that circle.
 
Re: New PUPS for HSH Ash Stratocaster

Well, we're talking about an A2 humbucker in the neck, which has far less string pull than most neck single coils.

So overall savage8190 will have less issues with sustain-damping than a strat. I don't think a middle single will significantly hurt there, as long as it's properly positioned to avoid warbling...
 
Re: New PUPS for HSH Ash Stratocaster

Wow there's lots of love goin around for the PATB...now Im leaning that way for sure. I dont think Id be tempted to try the PATB 2, Ive never been a fan of ceramic, and it might be a bit too hot. The PATB 3 seems to have a little less output than I might want in a bridge, so I dont think ID go for that either. Right now Im definitely considering the set of PATB 1's.

As far as the middle pup goes, I had considered doing just HH, but then I thought why not throw a stack in the middle? Its wired so I can just use the bridge/neck combo, so even if I dont like it, I dont have to use it....just more tonal options really.

Now you guys have me concerned with the pull of the magnets though.....do you really think it would be too much? Would it have some sort of adverse effect on the two humbuckers? This is something I never considered as I didnt think it would be an issue. The stack is also a ceramic too, so maybe I dont want it...so many questions.

I guess it would make everything easier if I just went HH.
 
Re: New PUPS for HSH Ash Stratocaster

The PATB-2 is absolutely insane, it's awesomely hot, and has the least of the ugly ceramic grit/presence of any ceramic pickup I'm familiar with. But yes, it's very compressed. Awesome for metal, but not so strong for cleans or low gain, the output just makes it too stiff in the few recordings I've heard of people trying to do that with it.

The PA stack is ceramic, but it's particularly sweet for ceramic, it does have a fair amount of highs, but they aren't the same glassy highs as an A5 single. But at least similarly bright. They get compared to a P-90 a fair amount, though lower output and less punchy, there's some similarity. It is also low string pull.

The PATB-3 is 9.8K of 42AWG, that's actually a lot of copper. It's hot, but vintage sounding. Like the PATB-1b, it's surprisingly open and dynamic for it's output level. A few people have described it as being nearly identical to a '59, if you roll the PATB-3's volume down to around 80%.

If the PATB-1 set isn't too bright for your guitar, it is simply awesome. If your someplace where the 21-day swap guarantee applies, you can try it with minimal risk, and swap out for your next set of choices if it's too bright.

Custom Custom in bright ash and maple neck & fretboard just cries mid-80s Van Halen.

As far as the number of magnets thing, keep in mind a strat typically has 18 magnet polepieces, which put a stronger field closer to the strings than a pair of humbuckers (only 2 magnets there, larger but polepieces don't perfectly conduct the field) and a middle single would. Strats are more known for percussive than sustaining tone, but if you are careful about keeping the pickups far enough from the strings, it wont kill sustain to have one in the middle.
 
Re: New PUPS for HSH Ash Stratocaster

Despair said:
Well, we're talking about an A2 humbucker in the neck, which has far less string pull than most neck single coils.

So overall savage8190 will have less issues with sustain-damping than a strat. I don't think a middle single will significantly hurt there, as long as it's properly positioned to avoid warbling...
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In my HSH guitars I always keep the middle single lowered anyway. Yes, there is a distinct volume drop if playing clean, but in an HSH guitar when playing clean the notch positions are the way to go anyway! And those notch positions, even in an SSS guitar, sound better when the middle pup is lowered in comparison to the other two.
 
Re: New PUPS for HSH Ash Stratocaster

Same here, Varg. I'm sure there really are players like IanBallard harshly stereotypes who play HSH guitars with the strings grinding on the polepieces, but I've run into more SSS players/guitars with magnetism-induced problems.

First thing I did when setting up pickups was back them away and check acoustic sustain, then check it again after tweaking for best electric tone, realize I'd lost a bit of sustain, and back them off until it came back. Unfortunately I wanted the stock pickups closer than provided the sustain I wanted...
 
Re: New PUPS for HSH Ash Stratocaster

IanBallard said:
why not ditch the single in the middle and just do an HH one? You can coil tap the humbuckers and get single-like tones and it wouldn't look so cluttered and you'd have less magnets pulling on the strings. I never really understood the whole Ibanez HSH thing myself...
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In my experience coil splits do not sound like single coils. That me be what they are, physically, electrically, whatever, but a split humbucker doesn't sound anything like a true single coil to me.
An HSH guitar gives you a lot of tonal choices an HH guitar doesn't, splits or not. Notch tones for a start.
 
Re: New PUPS for HSH Ash Stratocaster

Varg said:
In my experience coil splits do not sound like single coils. That me be what they are, physically, electrically, whatever, but a split humbucker doesn't sound anything like a true single coil to me.
An HSH guitar gives you a lot of tonal choices an HH guitar doesn't, splits or not. Notch tones for a start.
Click to expand...

Kind of what I was thinking. Split coils are just a completely different beast that I dont have in the arsenal. Im not trying to recreate single coils with the split, Im trying to give myself a new sound option.
 
Re: New PUPS for HSH Ash Stratocaster

Ive been listening to everything I can as far as the PATB's go, and while there isnt much out there for the 1's, nothing Ive heard seems to really have the thick chug Im looking for...maybe they're all just bad demo's/videos? I dunno. They might just be a little too modern for me, Im more partial to a hot PAF type tone driving the gain on my Egnater. Im also very hesitant to pick something up that I cant really hear; Im in Canada and ordering from the US, so its a pain to exchange. Ive heard PG's and CC's in Strats and I know I like them, I think I will still go that route.

Despair, you've sold me on keeping the middle stack and I think I will take your advice and go with the S7.

Ive still got some time to ponder, but I think Im pretty sure at this point. Thanks everyone for your input!
 
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