New to pedals...just confirming what I don't know

[zjb29877]

Re: New to pedals...just confirming what I don't know

I have the Fender Mustang II modeling amp, which is the 40 watt item. I can get some good tones out of it with the presets and the fender fuse software. But it still sounds a little too "digital" for me. So I have been thinking of upgrading in the way you describe: a small tube amp, about 15 watts, with some good pedals. I'm a bedroom player too. I'm even thinking a single channel like the blues junior would work well. That way I can get some good clean tones and just use pedals for my overdrive. I would suggest that over a modeling amp


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Honestly i think a good solid state amp is better for bedroom players cause they sound pretty similar at low and higher volumes. But hey, I'm the like 2/10 people who actually like Line 6 (only the head versions, i gotta have control of my cab), and ive gotten some pretty great tones from them. I just think so many people who say "line 6 sucks!!" All over the Internet haven't used them with a good cab, or aren't open minded enough to see their perks. And call me crazy, but half the time i think it sounds better than my 6505+ 112. I know this seems to be a forum that loves tubes and so do I, but I can get tones I like from solid state/digital amps. I totally don't understand the hate for them. I guess they just aren't for everyone, but they certainly have their uses.

As for the OP, for what you want, for OD I'd recommend the Fulltone OCD, it sounds killer. Kinda can act as both an overdrive and full on distortion pedal in one. I don't have one personally, but I've used it through clean channels before and it spewed out pure fire, but does a really nice crunch too. As far as noise gates go, I'd consider them necessary for anything with more gain than just overdrive. The Boss NS-2 works very well for me. I'm mainly a rhythm player so i dont really use flanger, phaser, chorus, etc. But both of my amps have built in reverb which is about the only effect i use other than distortion. I don't know much about multi-effects units, but i think you should go with separate effects pedals. If i were you, given what you said you want out of an amp, and if your price range can do it, I'd go for an Egnater Tweaker 15 head. With a good cab, it'd be great for what you want. Pristine cleans, but can definitely get dirty. If you wouldn't mind going solid state, cause they can sound really good, the Randall RG1003 and Acoustic G120H would do you well. Both are less expensive than the Egnater and would give you more than enough power to gig with. But really, go out and try everything you can in your price range and don't count out solid states. Tubes and solid state amps can both sound great, you just gotta find what you like and what you vibe with, same for pedals. My apologies for such a long reply, just trying to be as thorough as possible.

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[Hoosier-Rocker]

Re: New to pedals...just confirming what I don't know

Honestly i think a good solid state amp is better for bedroom players cause they sound pretty similar at low and higher volumes. But hey, I'm the like 2/10 people who actually like Line 6 (only the head versions, i gotta have control of my cab), and ive gotten some pretty great tones from them. I just think so many people who say "line 6 sucks!!" All over the Internet haven't used them with a good cab, or aren't open minded enough to see their perks. And call me crazy, but half the time i think it sounds better than my 6505+ 112. I know this seems to be a forum that loves tubes and so do I, but I can get tones I like from solid state/digital amps. I totally don't understand the hate for them. I guess they just aren't for everyone, but they certainly have their uses.

Thanks. This is very helpful. That's another of my options I've been considering; upgrading from the mustang II to the III. Better gui interface so I wouldn't need to connect to computer quite so often. Plus it has the better 12" Celestion speaker and 4-button footswitch. You may be right that I may not be able to get the full benefit from tubes at bedroom volume anyway

 

[Aceman]

Re: New to pedals...just confirming what I don't know

OK - here we go. I'll take a couple to answer this; First - a word about "pro's"

Most pro's care about things in the following order:

#1 Good songs
#2 Good chops
#3 Good songs
#4 Fitting the song
#5 Excessive ridiculous focus on tone.

They really do not give a rat's @$$ about the latest uber-oedal or any of that. They will record through a plastic Danelectro guitar into Behringer pedal straight to the board if that is what sounds good. Live, you will see more Boss/MXR/Ibanez pedals than you ever thought existed. Worrying about tone first and playing second is a fast track to "you suck" town and it is expensive.

So let's just kick of those internet and guitar rag myths to the side.

There is only one rule: If it sounds good it is good. Your ears are the only ones that matter. If you can't decide for yourself at some point all you will be is the same as everyone else.

 

[Aceman]

Re: New to pedals...just confirming what I don't know

O
Distortion pedal.....adds distortion, obviously. But the character of the pedal plays a large role in the output. It "overrides" the natural sound of the amp and guitar. T or F?

Often/Mostly True

Overdrive pedal.....boosts signal to the amp, causing the amp's natural distortion to kick in to a greater degree or at a lower volume level. Enhances the sound of the amp and guitar rather than overriding it. T or F?

Mostly true. There are overdrives that do seriously color the sound though. Transparency usual costs $$$$. But - often the non-transparent factor may be better than not transparent.

Tube Screamer..... similar to an overdrive pedal, but with a more prominent boost in the midrange. Probably the last thing you'd ever want if your guitar uses a JB. T or F?

Half True - TS9 is one of two major families of Overdrives. It is one many know and love. I would say these days there are so many more options - don't buy a regular TS-9. Get a TS-7, A Bad Monekey, a Trbo Screamer, whatever. Way more flexible. As for the JB - depends on a lot of things, including guitar, amp settings, etc. See "If it sounds good rule." No reason NOT to use a TS9 with a JB, IMO.

Fuzz Box .... Basically distortion on steroids. Muddies up your sound without boosting it, leading to a 60s psychedelic sound. T or F?

True

Flanger ..... I've read and heard that this is absolutely necessary to do EVH sounds. But I could never really put my finger on the specific effect, even when I try the flange setting on the V-Amp. A little help here?

EVH uses two modulation effects - Phaser and Flanger. You can't sub one for the other (although people do). There are many flavors of Flange (and Phase). FLangers make a swooosh, a slightly metallic sound, and bit of wobble into the tone. Generally.

Phaser …. see above, without the EVH part

Phasers combine two signals, slightly out of phase for a cool swoosh, far more subtle than a Flanger. EVH = MXR Phase 90 set low.

Noise Gate..... I have no idea what this does.

Stops hiss, noise and all manner of non-obviously music. This could be good if amp makes a lot of noise, or bad - meaning it chops out sound /tone you want. essential for some heavier metal like Pantera to 'stop' the music quickly and cleanly on evil fast riffs.

EQ ..... same as the eq on your amp. Fairly straight forward T or F?

False - same function but usually far more bands to work with in a very narrow range, and often more cut / boost.

Chorus/Reverb/Echo/Delay .... I'm not clear on the differences between these things.

Chorus - in the Phase/Flange family of modulation. MAkes a prettier sound than Phase, but less extreme than Flange.
Delay - any signal repeated from one to infinite time, with whatever time needed from 10 to 1000 milliseconds (or less or more)
* Short delays can double/fatten sound, or make guitar sound metallic
* medium delays add cool echoes, and depth to the overall sound
* Long delays are spacey almost reverb sorts of things
Echo - generally a long analog delay, or another word for revel
reverb - sounds like playing in a cave. Natural sounding echo.

Delay can be made to sound like reverb if right delay and set carefully, Reverb does not sound like delay. Delay + reverb can be extremely cool. Or a mess.

 

[Aceman]

Re: New to pedals...just confirming what I don't know

Ain't talking bout love = Flanger + a very short delay with 1 repeat

Eruption = Phaser + big reverb

Scorpions intro to "Coming Home" off First Sting = Chorus + huge Reverb

Def Leppard intro to "Women" off Hysteria = Medium delay + Chorus

Def Leppqrd arpeggio on Love Bites = Chorus + Echo (or delay)

Boston More than a feeling = Chorus on arpeggios, distortion on rhythm, and Distortion + chorus on solo

Jimi Henrdrix = Fuzz

 

[Aceman]

Re: New to pedals...just confirming what I don't know

Get a tube amp with TWO channels: Clean and drive. Pedals can sound very different on each.

 

[uOpt]

Re: New to pedals...just confirming what I don't know

My recommendation for getting into pedals has this first step:

1) treat any form of clipping pedal separately from all the others.

Clipping (distortion, overdrive, treble/trouble booster) is really a sound generating thing, it is more like an instrument than an effect.

For the non-clipping effects you also have the option of buying a flexible 19" thing that does all the modulation things, with lots and lots of parameters, and play around with that to get familiar with what everything in there means.

 

[Taz Rules]

Re: New to pedals...just confirming what I don't know

Aceman, thanks for all that! This is an awesome thread response!

I think you, UOPT and everyone else are correct (and in line with my original thoughts)...get an amp I like and a decent overdrive and delay pedal. Then let my fingertips learn to do the rest. As I find good used deals, add them in. Maybe a wah or a chorus/delay. I can use the v-amp for all the modulation effects anyway.

I was looking on ebay, and they have some DIY stomp boxes from TTone for $30 each. Anyone try these? I was thinking of an Overdrive or a blues compressor from there, as I love to build, but it's a waste if the are going to suck.

I'm still tossing around the idea of a Mustang 2 or 3(or something similar) vs the small tube amp and some pedals. At this point, I think it's down to fingers on the fretboard to decide. But all this info has definitely narrowed the search field.

Thanks all!!!

 

[ThisDyingSoul76]

Re: New to pedals...just confirming what I don't know

Do yourself a favour and check out That Pedal Show on Youtube. All of your questions will be covered there.

I second this... While they tend to focus on ultra high end boutique pedals, the knowledge and info they possess and share applies regardless of how much your chosen pedals cost.

As for the Joyo and other Chinese clones... Yeah, they are great value, no they may not sound identical to the pedals they are based on but they get you in the ballpark and "better" us subjective. Build quality?... Not so much a factor if it at least works, but the switches are suspect... If the switch fails replacing it with a good one costs peanuts. That bit about better being subjective... If you like a particular pedal, check out the original it's based on and keep whichever you prefer.

I have a mix of mostly mid grade pedals with a few Chinese clones and a few boutique pedals as well as some vintage ones... I view none as superior. The Joyo Vintage Overdrive (Tubescreamer clone) has a rougher edge to its sound while the Visual Sound Double Trouble (modified Tubescreamer TS808 clone) is smoother. I don't view it as a quality thing as much as each pedal having different character. Sometimes the pedals using cheaper components actually sound better in the context of the sound you're after.

 

[ThisDyingSoul76]

Re: New to pedals...just confirming what I don't know

I was looking on ebay, and they have some DIY stomp boxes from TTone for $30 each. Anyone try these? I was thinking of an Overdrive or a blues compressor from there, as I love to build, but it's a waste if the are going to suck.

I have a couple of these I'm building now. My first one doesn't work, but being my first ever pedal build I'm chalking that up to something I did, not the quality of the kit. Hopefully it won't take me too long to figure out where I went wrong but the lack of an actual schematic makes troubleshooting a bit difficult.

I got 2 of their "Fuzz Face" pedals... I don't know what it is, but it sure isn't a fuzz face as it has way too many parts and the fuzz face doesn't use IC chips. My best guess is it's a clone of the late 70's version of the Big Muff since the IC's used are the same.

I went this route to prove to myself I could build my own and after getting a few successful builds I'll move on to more expensive kits like BYOC.

 

[uOpt]

Re: New to pedals...just confirming what I don't know

I was looking on ebay, and they have some DIY stomp boxes from TTone for $30 each. Anyone try these? I was thinking of an Overdrive or a blues compressor from there, as I love to build, but it's a waste if the are going to suck.

I love those kit things. Generally higher quality than cheap Asian-made things, unique sound in some way or another.

Whether you build youself or buy an assembled kit from somebody, I recommend it.

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: New to pedals...just confirming what I don't know

another piece of advice... Start slow.

If you go buy a phase shifter, chorus, flanger, delay, reverb and three dirt boxes you'll be overwhelmed and confused getting them all in the "correct" order (there is none) and getting all the settings "right". There's a reason all those multi effects units come with presets, it's overwhelming to set them up with all the options. That and to make cool noises when you demo in the store.

Get your tube amp and maybe a couple of overdrive pedals to see which sounds better with your rig. A used Boss SD-1 and a used Soul Food would be two options that can sound good with a lot of guitars and amps. After you take some time to explore what those can do at all their settings, add in your bigger gain sound. It could be it a Big Muff, Rat, DS-1, Distortion+, etc. and see how it interacts with the overdrive, guitar and amp. Finally, using online demos and song references like what Ace posted above, choose your coloring effects based on what tones you like. Maybe a chorus and delay, maybe a phase shifter and reverb, maybe a wah and flanger... Take each pedal, one at a time, and explore what it can do by itself and in the context of your rig (guitar, amp, gain pedals)

If you take it slow and methodical rather than buy a bunch of stuff all at once, you'll be a lot happier and completely in command of your rig rather than at the mercy of it.

I'd be hesitant to do cheap Chinese kits as fist pedals, since you don't know how they are supposed to sound. Compared to used prices on Boss, MXR and Electro Harmonix pedals, you don't save that much and it's really up to you to make them sound good.

 

[IMENATOR]

Re: New to pedals...just confirming what I don't know

I used to have the same approach some time ago and I was so frustrated about pedals, there was always a nicer sounding pedal but then never as nice as I really wanted until I really had the chance to try tube based toned, I think tubes really make sense mild overdrive up to some distortion level or high gain marshall like tone, then I think SS makes sense for clean and loud sound and more modern high gain metal tones, finally I ended up with a tube based preamp AMT SS-20 that can do nice fender like cleans, real tube overdrive and even thick high gain, all these with a real tube vibe, I no longer use any of my OD pedals any more, I used to have these in my pedalboard: Boss SD-1, ST-2, ML-2, Fulltone PlimSoul. Now I rarely use any of these pedals, even the pilmsoul which is a fine pedal with a thick amp like sound is not as nice imho, so I am going to sell all these . So instead of buying a bunch of OD/Dist pedals I recommend you really evaluate how much those cost and compare with the cost of a real tube based amp or at least a tube base pedal into clean channel of your existing SS amp. I personally prefer the idea of using tube based preamp into SS power amp (like FX return of an SS amp) to avoid the hassle of power tube biasing, it should also reduce weigth.

And about FX pedals, I recommend you first get your overdrive/distortion tone and enjoy it, you may realize you don't really need FX when you have a nice od/dist tone to use.

 

[Kamanda~SD]

Re: New to pedals...just confirming what I don't know

First off, Aceman's posts in this thread have been pretty spot on. And the one's I'm about to pick apart are just clarifications for the actual recorded tracks for reference. As far as jamming along to these yourself, he's right.

Ain't talking bout love = Flanger + a very short delay with 1 repeat

The only time I hear Flanger here is on the "C-B-C" in the intro. The rest is phaser. You can definitely get this sound with either though cause of the way he has it set.
He has an echoplex on this song but any delay set to ~100ms will sound good. If you have one with dual delay set one to ~100 and the other to ~300.
don't forget reverb either! there's an EMT140 all over that album.

Boston More than a feeling = Chorus on arpeggios, distortion on rhythm, and Distortion + chorus on solo

Yup, just keep in mind the intro is 12 string, which produces a natural chorus effect and is a great way to understand what chorus is and how it works!

 

[Taz Rules]

Re: New to pedals...just confirming what I don't know

Well, I'm off and running!

Got paid for an art commission (paint job), and after I eat, I got some $ left over!!!!! So it was off to EBay to fill my GAS tank!
Used Boss DS-1 Distortion - $26
Used Behringer VD-400 Delay - $18.27
Used Washburn Blues overdrive - $13.67

All from the same seller, so shipping them all together will save me some more $

I looked at a TS7 Tube Screamer from a different seller, but something was hokey in the picture. It said "TS7 Distortion" instead of "TS7 TubeScreamer", and seemed to be missing the "Hot" switch. Anyway, it didn't look like all the other pics I've seen of that unit, so I just kept my money to myself on that one.

I'll run these clean through my SS amp until I find a good deal on a small or used tube unit. My neighbour has a Kustom Defender 50W 1x12 combo that he lets me use whenever I want. I just have to play at his house, he won't let me move it, LOL. So I can get a feel for these pedals through his tube amp while I'm looking for my own.

I figure these should do me for a while. I still have the V-amp for other effects. Though I would like to add a wah at some point. Baby steps.

Thanks again for all the help!


WYLD STALLYONS!!!!!!

 

[Aceman]

Re: New to pedals...just confirming what I don't know

The only time I hear Flanger here is on the "C-B-C" in the intro.

That's the "Manual" control on the ADA Flanger set to put the center of the Flange way down in the bass freq.'s….

 

[Dave Locher]

Re: New to pedals...just confirming what I don't know

Well, I'm off and running!

Got paid for an art commission (paint job), and after I eat, I got some $ left over!!!!! So it was off to EBay to fill my GAS tank!
Used Boss DS-1 Distortion - $26
Used Behringer VD-400 Delay - $18.27
Used Washburn Blues overdrive - $13.67

All from the same seller, so shipping them all together will save me some more $

I looked at a TS7 Tube Screamer from a different seller, but something was hokey in the picture. It said "TS7 Distortion" instead of "TS7 TubeScreamer", and seemed to be missing the "Hot" switch. Anyway, it didn't look like all the other pics I've seen of that unit, so I just kept my money to myself on that one.

I'll run these clean through my SS amp until I find a good deal on a small or used tube unit. My neighbour has a Kustom Defender 50W 1x12 combo that he lets me use whenever I want. I just have to play at his house, he won't let me move it, LOL. So I can get a feel for these pedals through his tube amp while I'm looking for my own.

I figure these should do me for a while. I still have the V-amp for other effects. Though I would like to add a wah at some point. Baby steps.

Thanks again for all the help!


WYLD STALLYONS!!!!!!

That looks like a great "starter set" to get going with! Later on you can worry about getting a chorus, flanger, or phaser. (Guys on this forum will tell you to get all three, plus a bunch more. Don't listen to them - they are obsessed with pedals! Go over to the amp forum and you'll see that many, many guitar players use no pedals at all and plenty of us only ever use one or two.) [I tease because I love...]

Seriously, though, a distortion pedal, overdrive, and delay gets you 99% of what you hear 99% of the time. I try something else every couple years or so and always end up playing with it for a while and then leaving it behind. I've been to a lot of shows in my day and I've seen a lot of pros using one, maybe two pedals and that's it. And plenty using nothing at all but a good amp.

I've also seen some guys using dozens of pedals on a massive board and they often suck. My guess is they spend all their time chasing new sounds and not enough time playing with a few really good ones.

 

[Boppy]

Re: New to pedals...just confirming what I don't know

That's a good bunch of pedals to get started with.

You can't go wrong with the BOSS DS-1. It gets dissed a lot, but there's a reason why it's one of the most popular pedals of all time.

Another good choice is the Behringer VD-400. It's a copy of the old BOSS DM-3 analog delay. Incredible bang for the buck there.

I don't know anything about the Washburn OD--decent enough price though.

I think I see a wah pedal and either a phaser or chorus in your near future...


Fuzz. Fuzz is a madness that you should try to do without for the time being...

 

[Aceman]

Re: New to pedals...just confirming what I don't know

Comment: That DS-1 is MEANT to be ran into the overdrive channel of an amp take it to sonic awesome land.

Most haters try to use it for the pedal distortion tone into clean and don't dig it.

 

[Taz Rules]

Re: New to pedals...just confirming what I don't know

They arrived.
Happy so far. Learning what the all do.
Thanks for the help!