Nice SSL-1 Comment from John Frusciante

[PicoRiveraTele]

Re: Nice SSL-1 Comment from John Frusciante

I have tried all manner of strat pickups and I seem to gravitate to sets that are all right around 6k and no RWRP middle

If you informally survey all the boutique pickup makers out there, 6.0k seems to be dead center. It's the soup that's "just right". Seymour Duncan has tried to hold a line for near 40 years that the SSL-1 is the first and last vintage output Strat pickup you'd ever need, but at 6.5k is but one flavor among several, and a few turns of wire removed from that 6.0k "dead center". Of course the type of guitar cable you use pushes the pickup hotter or cooler, but only to a degree.

It seemed like the trendy thing is or was "hot" Strat pickups to cater to the SRV crowd, so the selection of sub 6.0k Strat pickups on the market has been relatively small in past years. Seymour Duncan has none. Fender has the CS 69 and 57/62's, and that's about it. Everything else is north of 6.0k.

 

[gregory]

Re: Nice SSL-1 Comment from John Frusciante

Glad we have another five-page thread on the SSL-1 ! Actually that's still cool to know about Frusciante's pickups.

It may be another five at the rate this is going.

 

[gregory]

Re: Nice SSL-1 Comment from John Frusciante

many of us thought those weak pickups sounded like sh#t...even if Jimi did like playing shiny new Strats.

No offense, but I think I'll take Jimi, thanks.

 

[Ayrton]

Re: Nice SSL-1 Comment from John Frusciante

I don't think you can even hear a .5k difference. Hell, one meter could be that far off from the next.

Pickups are not that complicated, and a strat single is about as simple as they come. The same exact pickups will sound a shade different in a different guitar.

Hendrix went thru strats like dragster engines and still sounded like Hendrix. Everyone was convinced EVH had a modded amp, and SRV had overwound pickups and 20 gauge strings.

SRV pickups were in the high 5s, and he used 11-48 strings for most of his popular years.

 

[PicoRiveraTele]

Re: Nice SSL-1 Comment from John Frusciante

I don't think you can even hear a .5k difference. Hell, one meter could be that far off from the next.

You will, that difference in DC resistance translates into a few hundred millihenries of difference in inductance, moving the resonant peak up or down by a few hundred hertz, up in the 3kHz to 4kHz range. You mostly hear the difference in the transient or "pick attack", because it's only for that brief period that there is much harmonic amplitude up in that range. If the difference is 0.1k, that would be a more dubious difference, but if you look at Lollar's Strat sets, and those of some other maker's, it's only a handful of turns that sets them apart, sometimes with the difference being less than 0.5k, and they consider that a meaningful product distinction anyway.

As the resonant frequency comes down and the transient is attenuated, the "pick attack" transitions from sharp and glassy to dull and punchy. Changing the guitar cable can move the peak by a few hundred hertz as well, but jockeying guitar cables is a crude way to target your tone, though I had someone tell me they gig with several guitar cables on hand just for this purpose. A famous example is that supposedly Hendrix liked the coil'd cable due it's very high capacitance, which would produce a cocked wah sound.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Nice SSL-1 Comment from John Frusciante

His tone is pretty good, but it never seemed to me to be that much better than a really amazing Strat tone.

 

[gregory]

Re: Nice SSL-1 Comment from John Frusciante

So you're actually saying his tone is better than really amazing, if only by a little.

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: Nice SSL-1 Comment from John Frusciante

In frank terms his tone is exactly what I want a Fender to sound like. It was never new or innovative, but it is very representative.

 

[freefrog]

Re: Nice SSL-1 Comment from John Frusciante

I don't think you can even hear a .5k difference. Hell, one meter could be that far off from the next.

It’s not only a question of DCR measurements IMHO…

If you test the PU’s of a Strat Amer Std. built around or since 2000, you might measure 6k or 6.1k on the mid and neck transducers… but only 2.2H of inductance.

If you measure a MIJ Fender Strat PU, you might see 6.6k on your DMM… but still 2.2H of inductance.

If you search a vintage Fender PU with 2.2H of inductance, you might find it in a single coil measuring less than 5.5k.

IOW, for a same inductance, Fender PU’s of various eras exhibit more than 1k of difference. At least that’s my experience.

I EDIT this message to end it: IF we consider that inductance defines the tone of guitar pickups, all the models mentioned above should sound the same, although their DCR varies widely.


Regarding the few pre CBS Fender Strat PU’s that I’ve tested: they were extremely inconsistent specs wise… but most had that elusive tone heard on the old records (and it could be seen in their harmonic spectrum).

FWIW and to come back on topic, the most “middle of the road” pre CBS PU that I’ve measured was a 1962 (and ergo “Frusciantesque”) mid transducer with 6.1k of resistance and… an inductance of 2.6H, almost exactly like most of the SSL1’s that I’ve tested personally.

FWIW.

 

[PicoRiveraTele]

Re: Nice SSL-1 Comment from John Frusciante

For a given 42AWG Strat pickup, if you just add or remove 500 ohms worth of wire, which is around 600 turns, that will constitute an audible shift in the tone.

 

[Ayrton]

Re: Nice SSL-1 Comment from John Frusciante

Let me get my bench cleared off and I will do some swapping

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Nice SSL-1 Comment from John Frusciante

For a given 42AWG Strat pickup, if you just add or remove 500 ohms worth of wire, which is around 600 turns, that will constitute an audible shift in the tone.

600 winds of 42 AWG is about 780 ohms.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Nice SSL-1 Comment from John Frusciante

It’s not only a question of DCR measurements IMHO…

If you test the PU’s of a Strat Amer Std. built around or since 2000, you might measure 6k or 6.1k on the mid and neck transducers… but only 2.2H of inductance.

If you measure a MIJ Fender Strat PU, you might see 6.6k on your DMM… but still 2.2H of inductance.

If you search a vintage Fender PU with 2.2H of inductance, you might find it in a single coil measuring less than 5.5k.

IOW, for a same inductance, Fender PU’s of various eras exhibit more than 1k of difference. At least that’s my experience.

I EDIT this message to end it: IF we consider that inductance defines the tone of guitar pickups, all the models mentioned above should sound the same, although their DCR varies widely.


Regarding the few pre CBS Fender Strat PU’s that I’ve tested: they were extremely inconsistent specs wise… but most had that elusive tone heard on the old records (and it could be seen in their harmonic spectrum).

FWIW and to come back on topic, the most “middle of the road” pre CBS PU that I’ve measured was a 1962 (and ergo “Frusciantesque”) mid transducer with 6.1k of resistance and… an inductance of 2.6H, almost exactly like most of the SSL1’s that I’ve tested personally.

FWIW.

Seymour says the strongest sounding Strat pickups he’s found came from 1962 and that’s been my experience too. The ballsiest sounding Strat I ever played was a 62. Seymour also said that the Surfer is based on a ‘62. I think the Surfer sounds slightly ballsier than a SSL1, but like I said earlier, I doubt most players could tell with certainty whether they were playing a Surfer, SSL1 or Fralin Vintage Hot...unless they knew beforehand.

Regarding CBS era Strats being better suited to funk and disco, I don’t buy it. I made a living during that era playing funk and disco and R&B all over the Detroit area. I used my ‘63 Strat and it sounded perfectly appropriate.

Hendrix played new Strats because they looked new, IMO. I doubt he drove a ‘57 Chevy either. Just not his style.

 

[freefrog]

Re: Nice SSL-1 Comment from John Frusciante

Maybe I should precise what I meant when I've described a 62 SC as the most “middle of the road” pre CBS PU that I’ve measured: I was trying to say that 6.1k was the average value that I've personally noticed on such PU's.

6.1k is also what appears if we average all the average values of pre CBS PU's mentioned in this page: http://www.guitarhq.com/pickups.html

Now and IMHO, the idea of a typical DCR per year is to take with a grain of salt : ALL the Strat pickups from a given year hadn't the same DCR and a Strat from a defined year could obviously contain pickups wound before...

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Nice SSL-1 Comment from John Frusciante

Maybe I should precise what I meant when I've described a 62 SC as the most “middle of the road” pre CBS PU that I’ve measured: I was trying to say that 6.1k was the average value that I've personally noticed on such PU's.

6.1k is also what appears if we average all the average values of pre CBS PU's mentioned in this page: http://www.guitarhq.com/pickups.html

Now and IMHO, the idea of a typical DCR per year is to take with a grain of salt : ALL the Strat pickups from a given year hadn't the same DCR and a Strat from a defined year could obviously contain pickups wound before...

I’m sure that’s true.

Regardless, the strongest, throatiest sounding Strats I’ve played and/or owned were from 62 and 63. That doesn’t mean they all are, altho Seymour did say that he based the Surfer on a particularly strong sounding pickup that happened to be a 62.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Nice SSL-1 Comment from John Frusciante

So you're actually saying his tone is better than really amazing, if only by a little.

What I am saying is that his tone doesn't stand out among really amazing Strat tones, at least to me.

 

[B2D]

Re: Nice SSL-1 Comment from John Frusciante

What I am saying is that his tone doesn't stand out among really amazing Strat tones, at least to me.

So who WOULD stand out? Eric Johnson?

I'm trying to build a 'tone ladder' in my mind here.

 

[B2D]

Re: Nice SSL-1 Comment from John Frusciante

I don't think you can even hear a .5k difference. Hell, one meter could be that far off from the next.

Pickups are not that complicated, and a strat single is about as simple as they come. The same exact pickups will sound a shade different in a different guitar.

Hendrix went thru strats like dragster engines and still sounded like Hendrix. Everyone was convinced EVH had a modded amp, and SRV had overwound pickups and 20 gauge strings.

SRV pickups were in the high 5s, and he used 11-48 strings for most of his popular years.

Really! I thought SRV was a 13-56 player and he went down to 12's occasionally.

That interesting considering I'm on a 10-52 set in Eb and considering bringing the top strings up to 11's on my strat.

 

[PicoRiveraTele]

Re: Nice SSL-1 Comment from John Frusciante

Really! I thought SRV was a 13-56 player and he went down to 12's occasionally.

That interesting considering I'm on a 10-52 set in Eb and considering bringing the top strings up to 11's on my strat.

I haven't looking into the matter, but I know that when I hear recordings of guitar solos, like say Don Felder with the Eagles, I'll hear string bends that would require so much leverage on the neck that I have to believe he was using 9's, regardless of what the official line might be. Even if you have strong hands, if you have to put a lot of strength into it, you can hear that extra exertion in the playing. I'd ask the same thing about SRV, can you execute string bends as he did using a 13 - 56 set on a Strat scale neck, with the fret board radius as it was? I think it would be rather hard, but I'm not too familiar with SRV's repertoire either.

 

[PicoRiveraTele]

Re: Nice SSL-1 Comment from John Frusciante

So who WOULD stand out? Eric Johnson?

I'm trying to build a 'tone ladder' in my mind here.

John Mayer. I can't believe you had to ask.