Noisy Guitar pickups

[luisgarciaalanis]

Hello Guys,

I have a Gibson Les Paul Studio with Seymour Duncan Alnico II Pro pickups. The guitar gets noisy when I pump the gain of the amp up. The it helps to turn the mid and treble pots down as well as the tone knob of the guitar. so we are dealing with high freq's here.

So here is what I have tried.

1) On a Room isolated from the rest of the hows electrical wiring
- No Fluorecent lights
- Electrician checked ground and it was fine
- No other electrical devices connected other than the amp
- Hums in 3 amps Vox Vt50 (this one is bad as it has more gain),
Roland microcube and AX84 P1-EX (this is all tube DIY and hums the
less but maybe just because it has only 2 gain stages on 1 preamp tube)
- Hums on both pickups.
- Rewired the guitar (still hums on all amps but a bit less)
- removed all electronics from the guitar except the bridge pickup
so I wired the bridge pickups directly to the guitar input jack, the
hot wire to the hot terminal, the ground wire to the ground terminal,
the shield wire from the pup to the ground terminal, the guitar bridge
ground cable to the ground terminal as well. So currently there is little
to no room for mistakes. After this still hums on all maps.
- tried a new guitar cable (hums on all amps)
- tried the iPOD at low volume on all amps, I can hear the music and there
is no humming on any of the amps, this confirms is the guitar/pickup.
- bought a power regulator for my amp and still hums.
- bought batteries for my roland microcube and still hums.
- took the guitar to a tech to check the wiring of the single pickup setup,
he said it was fine.


2) went to 3 guitar stores taking my single pickup hardwired guitar and my VoxVT50.
- tried my guitar in other amps and it hums on all of them (Vox Vt15,
Fender Champ, Marshall MG30 DFX, Messa boogie combo, Peavy VYPR,
Marshall Haze Combo, Marshall Haze stack, Roland Cube)
- tried other guitars (Epiphone les Paul Ultra, Gibson Les Pau Studio,
Gibson Les Paul Classic, Gibson Les Paul Standard) in my amp and
they hum as well.

What is the problem here?, I tought humbuckers were supposed to be quiet, before I had a sheckter buitar with diamond pickups and it as not noisy as this one.

Then on forums and Youtube you find videos of people claiming their guitar is quiet and does not require a noise reduction pedal. like this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4ohqmX6WvM on minute 1:18

Has anyone around here quieted their guitars? or I am looking for the impossible?

Has anyone tried copper shielding the cavities on humbucker guitars? did it help?

Or are my pickups just bad?

Thanks
Luis

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Noisy Guitar pickups

Welcome to the forum. (It is a good thing that you did not join last week when anagrams were all the rage.) :biglaugh:

All electric guitars will be prone to some noise when the amplification is set for extremely high gain. There is a process by which dual coil pickups reject RF interference and hum but it is not 100% perfect.

Turning down the mid and high frequency tone controls on your amplifier is bound to reduce hum because that is the range in which we hear most of it.

- tried the iPOD at low volume on all amps, I can hear the music and there is no humming on any of the amps, this confirms is the guitar/pickup.

I disagree. To me, the fact that your problematic guitar hums through valve-driven amplification but not through the digital modelling POD, indicates that the guitar is fine and something about the valve-driven devices is the problem.

Before commenting any further, I would like to see photographs of the wiring in your guitar.

 

[cakire82]

Re: Noisy Guitar pickups

Welcome to the forum. (It is a good thing that you did not join last week when anagrams were all the rage.) :biglaugh:

All electric guitars will be prone to some noise when the amplification is set for extremely high gain. There is a process by which dual coil pickups reject RF interference and hum but it is not 100% perfect.

Turning down the mid and high frequency tone controls on your amplifier is bound to reduce hum because that is the range in which we hear most of it.



I disagree. To me, the fact that your problematic guitar hums through valve-driven amplification but not through the digital modelling POD, indicates that the guitar is fine and something about the valve-driven devices is the problem.

Before commenting any further, I would like to see photographs of the wiring in your guitar.

I think there is an misunderstanding here. He said iPOD and not POD modeler. His test shows that it is the guitar that makes the noise not the amplifier.

Ensure that guitar is properly shielded (and all the shielding and metal hardware is properly grounded)

Noise pedal might also help with high gain but guitar should be properly shielded first.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Noisy Guitar pickups

He said iPOD and not POD modeler. His test shows that it is the guitar that makes the noise not the amplifier.

I still disagree. A humming guitar ought to hum through any type of amplification and/or signal processor.

Since the guitar only hums through certain devices, the problem is either the devices or some interaction between the guitar and the devices.

The OP describes stripping down the guitar's electronics to the absolute bare minimum and still experiencing hum. The only thing that has not been tried is to replace the jack socket with a brand new one.

Frequently, problems such as this boil down to a poor contact or a dry solder joint. (No mention has been made of testing whether the bridge grounding wire is still making physical contact with the bridge studs.) Even something as simple as connecting the wrong end of a Planet Waves Custom cable to the amp could influence the grounding path.

AFTERTHOUGHT. PW Custom cables are deliberately only grounded at the amp end. If you run one of these cables between a pedal and your amp and then a second PW Custom cable between the pedal and your guitar, the ground path is incomplete.

 

[luisgarciaalanis]

Re: Noisy Guitar pickups

I think there is an misunderstanding here. He said iPOD and not POD modeler. His test shows that it is the guitar that makes the noise not the amplifier.

Ensure that guitar is properly shielded (and all the shielding and metal hardware is properly grounded)

Noise pedal might also help with high gain but guitar should be properly shielded first.

yup, it was a iPod or should I say

Right now it is shielded, unless the shielding wire on the PUP is not doing is job but I think this is not the case.

The tube amp is the less noisy of all but its the one with the less gain.

do you guys shield the cavities of the guitar like people do to single coil guitars?

 

[luisgarciaalanis]

Re: Noisy Guitar pickups

I still disagree. A humming guitar ought to hum through any type of amplification and/or signal processor.

Since the guitar only hums through certain devices, the problem is either the devices or some interaction between the guitar and the devices.

The OP describes stripping down the guitar's electronics to the absolute bare minimum and still experiencing hum. The only thing that has not been tried is to replace the jack socket with a brand new one.

Frequently, problems such as this boil down to a poor contact or a dry solder joint. (No mention has been made of testing whether the bridge grounding wire is still making physical contact with the bridge studs.) Even something as simple as connecting the wrong end of a Planet Waves Custom cable to the amp could influence the grounding path.

AFTERTHOUGHT. PW Custom cables are deliberately only grounded at the amp end. If you run one of these cables between a pedal and your amp and then a second PW Custom cable between the pedal and your guitar, the ground path is incomplete.

Its the guitar on all the devices

I did try a new guitar input Jack, but only to test it on the amps at home, I did not want to take a guitar with an external hanging jack to a guitar store because I did not want to deal with them no allowing me to plug it into their amps

I did test grounding between the pip and the guitar cable using a Digital Multmeter. And it beeps.
I also tried testing the ground from the bridge to the guitar cable using the DMM by touching the trings and the bridge, and it also beeps. So grounding is fine.

Unfortunately on the high gain models of the microcube and Vox amps the noise is bad

I wish there was a way of knowing how the noise is getting into the guitar.

Thanks
Luis

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Noisy Guitar pickups

When you ran the iPod through the amp, did you also have the gain on the amp set to the same as when you had the guitar plugged into it? Meaning did you play a non-distorted guitar track from your iPod (mp3) through the amp with the gain/distortion set the same way it was for your guitar?

If not, and you played a regular mp3 through your amp's clean channel, then you simply have too much gain saturation for your distortion, which is always going to be noisy regardless of the shielding or insulation or how many ground wires the guitar has.

 

[luisgarciaalanis]

Re: Noisy Guitar pickups

When you ran the iPod through the amp, did you also have the gain on the amp set to the same as when you had the guitar plugged into it? Meaning did you play a non-distorted guitar track from your iPod (mp3) through the amp with the gain/distortion set the same way it was for your guitar?

If not, and you played a regular mp3 through your amp's clean channel, then you simply have too much gain saturation for your distortion, which is always going to be noisy regardless of the shielding or insulation or how many ground wires the guitar has.

Example: I played a song through my tube amp (stairway to heaven), and I was able to hear it at max gain and max volume with no hum/buzz.

Since the iPod had the volume to 1% I was able to hear it fine. I would not dare to put the volume of the iPod high and screw with my tubes.

The problem is the guitar, guitar plugged to amp = HUM

 

[luisgarciaalanis]

Re: Noisy Guitar pickups

Are you using braided conductor with uncovered pickups?
In that case, the noise that had to catch the wire is transfered to the pickups.

Wy would it get transfered to the pickups? I only have the pickup directly wired to the jack. So the factory seymour duncan cable will transfer the noise to the pickup?

Are you using braided conductor with uncovered If your pickup is covered, try with non shielded wires (no braid, no shield, just the copper threads inside an insulation cover). Let the rest of circuit to catch the unwanted noise.

I don't get this

Currently I have uncovered Saymour Duncan Alnico II's. I ordered metal covers for them I should get them within 1 week.

About the Braided conductor I don't know what you mean. As of today here is how I have it hooked up for testing:

Bridge Seymour duncan pickup on the guitar has a wire (its there from the factory) that cable has ground from the shield, ground from the pickup and a hot wire.
So I have the ground wires from the pickup connected to the input jack of the guitar ground along with the bridge wire.
The hot line from the pickup to the hot line of the guitar cable (tip)

 

[luisgarciaalanis]

Re: Noisy Guitar pickups

Two condutors' pickups often come with braided wire. Four conductors doesn't.
Let see if those covers help to dim the noise.

If the noise is there, some electronics part will catch it.
If the pickup is shielded (cover grounded, like in a Faraday's cage), in principle, it rejects the noise.

So that thin metal looking film wrapped around the wires coming out of the pickup is not a shield?

Thanks
Luis

 

[dr. ad]

Re: Noisy Guitar pickups

have you confirmed that the ground wire to the bridge/strings/player has a decent connection at the bridge end? i would beep test the strings and the ground contact on the jack; if no beep, try the bridge, then other ground points.
sorry if this has been covered and i missed it.

another option is to connect 1 pickup to 1 pot, and that pot straight to the output jack.
you need to eliminate components possibly causing the fault..

 

[luisgarciaalanis]

Re: Noisy Guitar pickups

have you confirmed that the ground wire to the bridge/strings/player has a decent connection at the bridge end? i would beep test the strings and the ground contact on the jack; if no beep, try the bridge, then other ground points.
sorry if this has been covered and i missed it.

another option is to connect 1 pickup to 1 pot, and that pot straight to the output jack.
you need to eliminate components possibly causing the fault..

Yes it beeps on the bridge and on the strings. going to the guitar cable ground.

I currently have the pickup connected directly to the Jack

 

[dr. ad]

Re: Noisy Guitar pickups

hmm... so you're using the black wire as hot, the green and bare wires are both grounded, and the red and white are definitely soldered together?

 

[luisgarciaalanis]

Re: Noisy Guitar pickups

hmm... so you're using the black wire as hot, the green and bare wires are both grounded, and the red and white are definitely soldered together?

yes, do you think metal covers for the pickups might help?

 

[dr. ad]

Re: Noisy Guitar pickups

in theory... shielding the pickup cavities and the control cavities should help, as should nickel covers, but you shouldn't need to do that to get this noise issue sorted.

i would take the tape off the pickups to confirm that the bare wires in the cables are connected to the baseplates, and re-solder the red/white series connection on both pickups (if you haven't already).

 

[Night Owl]

Re: Noisy Guitar pickups

Hi - Did you ever find an answer to this problem? I have a very, very similar problem, but I will post it in a separate thread. I was trying to figure out my noise problem and ended up simplifying the circuit to just a pickup and a jack. Coincidentally, I even used the same type of pickup. I went a couple of steps further than this thread went, though. I'll post my info as "Battle with noisy pickups".

Thanks!

 

[chris_tw21]

Re: Noisy Guitar pickups

It's called ground noise.It means you have to move some wires in the guitar as you would if there was ground noise from the cables on the ground and it also means you have to be aggressive in moving these cables or wires.Take off the backing plate where the pots are located and start moving some wire around.Side to side up and down stuffing them in there as guitar and rig are on. If this doesn't work new and better wires,wiring,pots,jack,shielding and switch are the order of the day.Bourns,switchcraft and mogami are the brands that I used and they all worked great.

 

[luisgarciaalanis]

Re: Noisy Guitar pickups

Hi - Did you ever find an answer to this problem? I have a very, very similar problem, but I will post it in a separate thread. I was trying to figure out my noise problem and ended up simplifying the circuit to just a pickup and a jack. Coincidentally, I even used the same type of pickup. I went a couple of steps further than this thread went, though. I'll post my info as "Battle with noisy pickups".

Thanks!

No I did not find a solution, I shielded the inside of the guitar and that helped a bit but not much. I took my guitar and compared it with 5 or 6 stock gibsons (a Studio, Classic, Standard, Epiphone....) and they all hummed on high gain amps (took my amps as well). Seems to be normal however I read on the net of a guy who opened his pickups and removed the wires to make them single coil and soldered it in the pickup and that worked for him, I am skeptical at this point All humbuckers seem to hum at high gain

Where is you "Battle with noisy pickups" info?

Thanks
Luis

 

[luisgarciaalanis]

Re: Noisy Guitar pickups

It's called ground noise.It means you have to move some wires in the guitar as you would if there was ground noise from the cables on the ground and it also means you have to be aggressive in moving these cables or wires.Take off the backing plate where the pots are located and start moving some wire around.Side to side up and down stuffing them in there as guitar and rig are on. If this doesn't work new and better wires,wiring,pots,jack,shielding and switch are the order of the day.Bourns,switchcraft and mogami are the brands that I used and they all worked great.

Mine is not a ground issue, ground issues usualy go away if you touch the strings (for example), I even tried wiring a pickup directly into the jack and still the same I have not tried better wires, pots jack... as jor shielding I copper taped shielded the interior of the guitar...

Is your guitar complately silent? you backing plate is gone?

 

[Marshall3203]

Re: Noisy Guitar pickups

Being a high gain user myself, and I think I'll get shot for expressing this, but I have found humbucker PUs w/AlNiCo magnets tend to be noisier than ones with ceramic magnets. When using large amounts of distortion. I always opt for ceramic because of this.