Not enough Axe-FX discussion around here. You guys are missing-out...

[Red_Label]

Re: Not enough Axe-FX discussion around here. You guys are missing-out...

I actually am digging the current top tier modelers. Sure do love my 11R! So I'm sure I'd love a Fractal. But what I'm not loving (and why I started this thread) is the crybaby, insecure, defensive nature of many of the posts of Fractal owners when anyone posts something negative about them. Some of these guys do the equivalent of sticking their fingers in their ears and screaming for the naysayers to stop. It's really weird. I just don't see that with 11R, POD, etc users at all. My guess is that when you spend $2K, you've invested yourself emotionally in many cases. I'm certainly emotionally invested in my Bogner. But having said that, if there were people who didn't like them (and there are), I just shrug my shoulders and move-on. So what. I think they are the greatest amp in the world (for me). But I'm big enough to realize that's not the case for everyone and I really don't take it personally.

 

[Despair]

Re: Not enough Axe-FX discussion around here. You guys are missing-out...

A lot of people post nonsense about digital harshness or other troll attacks, I can see attempting to debunk those. And getting frustrated as the trolls wont stop the nonsense. Letting disinformation stand is bad, but replying encourages them. Fun no-win situation that often devolves into all parties looking like idiots.

I have a V-Amp Pro, for the time it was a decent cheap modeller, but I'm tripping over a lot of it's limitations these days, especially since upgrading my computer and losing the midi port, which makes editing some of the hidden features impossible. I can get some neat sounds out of it, but my biggest problem is actually with cleans, oddly I hit digital clipping constantly with my PATB-1b into it on cleans, but not heavy distortion. Frustrating...

Not sure which way I'll eventually jump, a DI + software modeller, another hardware modeller, or finally get another tube head to use with my old Mesa EV12L thiele 1x12...

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Not enough Axe-FX discussion around here. You guys are missing-out...

You know what I really think it is?

First of all, most musicians aren't rich, so they choose wisely what to buy, and most of it is OK. But then, they stumble upon a piece of gear that's not like the rest....it's life changing.

I find this same love/hate pattern online with a lot of super exceptional gear. XTC, Klon, Dumble, Taylor etc.

But there's two kinds of players too. Ones who are like a horse with blinders, buy the good stuff, and play good. Or, the sensitive defensive guy who argues about how good his purchase was because gosh darnitt....I sold a bunch of vintage amps to buy this AxeFX. And then there's all the gray area in between those two characters.

In reality, there will be the best kind of AxeFX user... the guy who buys it because it fits his needs, and then digs deep into it to figure out everything the engineers knew it could do, and then he takes it even further, by creating better presets, and uses other FX in it's loop etc. That's the guy the creators of the unit envisioned, and usually the only attention anyone pays is to the dorks who cry about it's virtues or shortcomings online.

 

[AudioWonderland]

Re: Not enough Axe-FX discussion around here. You guys are missing-out...

Whats funny to me is that about 99% of the "name" users are just using the effects section which is pretty good I hear but dammit, the zealots want me to believe if Steve Vai uses it, the amp sims he is not using must be good!!!

We had these discussions 10 years ago when the Line 6 stuff broke. Plug in "AXE-FX" in place of "POD" and they are pretty much identical

 

[sbecker67]

Re: Not enough Axe-FX discussion around here. You guys are missing-out...

Personally I think people go gaga over the quantity of sounds that come out of modelers, and eventually many realize there's only a handful of tones that they really want and use. Then they go out and buy a decent amp and throw the modeler away. =)

This about sums up my experience with both the Vetta and PodXt Live; neither of which I still own. I love this type of gear for effects but I can't make the amp modeling work to my satisfaction

 

[Stratman]

Re: Not enough Axe-FX discussion around here. You guys are missing-out...

I love my 11rack and yet also use my Line HD500... for fun kind of stuff.

 

[macki]

Re: Not enough Axe-FX discussion around here. You guys are missing-out...

I was considering the Axe-Fx ultra for awhile as I needed something for the man cave. I ended up with a 40W amp with power scaling that should cover all the bases.

The Axe still intrigues me though. I always wanted to try one. The vids sound good - but most I have heard are high gain or heavy effect types stuff (though I am sure there are low gain/clean setting vids out there). I have no problems with using a processor or tube amp - what ever sounds the best. It seems to me that the models in the Axe are quite sophisticated.

Oddly I do have a bit of a phobia with full on processors but I am sure its unwarranted w.r.t. the Axe. In the mid 90s I bought a Digitech RP10 thinking this would be the cat's meow. It was pretty horrible - bad switch latency, tinny sounding etc.

The one thing I wish Axe would do is put two cabinet simulations (say a 1x12 and 4x cab) + a really good amp attenuator (i.e., Weber type) in a box and sell it for 350.00 bucks to do late night recording. I was looking at a high end one Torpedo VB-101 and they are looking for 2600ish for it!

I have been reading the threads on TGP....I agree people getting pretty worked up either way. Makes me tired :0)

 

[aleclee]

Re: Not enough Axe-FX discussion around here. You guys are missing-out...

I'm a bit confused. Grosh posted the OP of that thread, praising the Axe. But all of the posts I've seen from him have been respectful, and well-stated. So I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say (did I miss some punctuation or something?).

Your OP paints with a pretty broad brush and covers Grosh on both sides. Either he's a cool builder or he's one of those TGP AxeFX d!cks.

The fact is that TGP has Kool Aide drinking zealots on both sides of the modeling issue. Some claim it has the Tone of the Gods while others swear to hear digital fizz in a crappy quality YouTube video. The AxeFX posse was a lot less defensive before the analog trolls came calling...not that it took long to happen. A big reason why TGP has a digital section at all is because it was hoped that the analog trolls wouldn't come a knockin'.

Other than that, I think GJ has matters pretty well covered.

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Not enough Axe-FX discussion around here. You guys are missing-out...

There's a different mindset going into a modeller that some people put themselves into. Those who tried the first transistor/digital racks 20 years ago or who moved from pedals into a Gorilla to a tube amp remember how those "pedals in a box" sounded just like their pedals into their old Gorilla, and so they suspect modelling is the same way.

They also hear a poorly set-up POD patch naked (no mix to blend with) and they snicker and jeer.

If they do venture to try one, it's usually with a preconceived notion they're going to show just how bad it sounds compared to their precious "real" amps, and they focus their attempts at achieving those results. These are the people who refuse to change, and refuse to let anyone else make their own decisions and feel good about them. They hate just to hate. Even if the modeller crowd went out today and bought whatever amps the Puritans swear by, the same Puritans would still hate on them - "It's about time you grew up", "took you long enough", "welcome to Manhood", etc.

The other issue is the inherent jealousy of "one trick pony" owners. They know they're stuck with one amp and one sound, whereas the modellers can simulate several different amps without the expense of each one. For this reason, they say they can hear "digital artifacting", and thus try to make the rack user doubt their new toy while reassuring themselves they're happy with their one-trick pony. "That's all a real man needs", "classic setup", etc etc are all terms they bandy about, completely disregarding the idea that some guitarists are actually not so narrow-minded as to want merely Hendrix's or Page's or Gibbons' or Moore's or Gilmour's or SRV's tone, but to want them all, at any time, from one unit.

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Not enough Axe-FX discussion around here. You guys are missing-out...

There's a different mindset going into a modeller that some people put themselves into. Those who tried the first transistor/digital racks 20 years ago or who moved from pedals into a Gorilla to a tube amp remember how those "pedals in a box" sounded just like their pedals into their old Gorilla, and so they suspect modelling is the same way.

They also hear a poorly set-up POD patch naked (no mix to blend with) and they snicker and jeer.

If they do venture to try one, it's usually with a preconceived notion they're going to show just how bad it sounds compared to their precious "real" amps, and they focus their attempts at achieving those results. These are the people who refuse to change, and refuse to let anyone else make their own decisions and feel good about them. They hate just to hate. Even if the modeller crowd went out today and bought whatever amps the Puritans swear by, the same Puritans would still hate on them - "It's about time you grew up", "took you long enough", "welcome to Manhood", etc.

The other issue is the inherent jealousy of "one trick pony" owners. They know they're stuck with one amp and one sound, whereas the modellers can simulate several different amps without the expense of each one. For this reason, they say they can hear "digital artifacting", and thus try to make the rack user doubt their new toy while reassuring themselves they're happy with their one-trick pony. "That's all a real man needs", "classic setup", etc etc are all terms they bandy about, completely disregarding the idea that some guitarists are actually not so narrow-minded as to want merely Hendrix's or Page's or Gibbons' or Moore's or Gilmour's or SRV's tone, but to want them all, at any time, from one unit.

This may all be true, but then there are others like me. Guys who could afford to get the Axe, and have no real issue with going with it... but who for whatever reason just haven't. I decided to go with the 11R instead. Two biggest reasons were the price and the user interface (love those knobs!). And I really love the unit. But you don't see me getting all bent out of shape by the fact that most Fractal owners seem to dismiss it as a B-grade wanna-be. The two guys that I know who've had the Fractal both have the 11R now and prefer it.

At any rate, the term "cork sniffer" gets used a lot on these forums -- and it's usually in reference to guys who own and love boutique tube amps. But honestly, I've never seen the amount of cork-sniffery with most of them as I have with Fractal owners. Nor have I seen that level of defensiveness and insecurity elsewhere.

I've gotten several IMs from some big names at TGP who agree with me, some of them big names in the industry. Some who own the Fractal and think it's useful as another tool in the bag, but not the be-all, end-all of everything that many of the koolaid drinkers think it is.

 

[AudioWonderland]

Re: Not enough Axe-FX discussion around here. You guys are missing-out...

There's a different mindset going into a modeller that some people put themselves into. Those who tried the first transistor/digital racks 20 years ago or who moved from pedals into a Gorilla to a tube amp remember how those "pedals in a box" sounded just like their pedals into their old Gorilla, and so they suspect modelling is the same way.

They also hear a poorly set-up POD patch naked (no mix to blend with) and they snicker and jeer.

If they do venture to try one, it's usually with a preconceived notion they're going to show just how bad it sounds compared to their precious "real" amps, and they focus their attempts at achieving those results. These are the people who refuse to change, and refuse to let anyone else make their own decisions and feel good about them. They hate just to hate. Even if the modeller crowd went out today and bought whatever amps the Puritans swear by, the same Puritans would still hate on them - "It's about time you grew up", "took you long enough", "welcome to Manhood", etc.

The other issue is the inherent jealousy of "one trick pony" owners. They know they're stuck with one amp and one sound, whereas the modellers can simulate several different amps without the expense of each one. For this reason, they say they can hear "digital artifacting", and thus try to make the rack user doubt their new toy while reassuring themselves they're happy with their one-trick pony. "That's all a real man needs", "classic setup", etc etc are all terms they bandy about, completely disregarding the idea that some guitarists are actually not so narrow-minded as to want merely Hendrix's or Page's or Gibbons' or Moore's or Gilmour's or SRV's tone, but to want them all, at any time, from one unit.

The Gospel according to TGP...
All: Praise be to Tag


Some people can hear the digital artifacts. That's not a dilusion, that really exists. Why does a sound have to be in a mix to sound good? Why does it have to have effects to sound good? It should sound great raw, period. The amps they are modeling certainly sound good alone and without effects. Some people are aware that art is defined by the limitations and choose their parameters. Having everything is having nothing to them. Some people need the sounds they need. The modelheads are of the mind that every sound is available in these units. Not the case. Even if it where though, who uses hundreds of sounds? No one. No one is jealous of an Axe. The boutique guys are generally making fun of axe users, not defending their choice of amp. The same is not true of the Axe users however.

Its convenient to not mention the people who gave the modelers a chance as that would screw the pooch of their entire argument. People who spent years trying to make it work. Finally, had to go back to amps because the promise was never fulfilled. They are out there. They just got tired of talking about it because the modelheads who would rather try to convince them they are wrong than have sex in most cases go on the attack themselves. So they go play while the modelheads convince themselves they are right....all while updating their firmware yet again....