"Not in my studio!" / "I want this sound."

[TheArchitect]

Re: "Not in my studio!" / "I want this sound."

The only album I mentioned that was reamped after recording it with the artist was Kreator's Enemy of God - originally recorded with a Recto, but it ended up sounding muddy and overgained in the mix. Reamped with a 5150, problem solved.

The other albums were recorded by other engineers, direct tracks sent to them along with the bass, drum, and vocal tracks. It allows them to not have the mix ruined by **** guitar tones that they'd otherwise have no control over.

This is my point. It doesn't take any production talent to try 100 things after the fact to get it right. It takes talent to get it right the first time. Afterwards it just takes time. Why aren't these guys there at the tracking sessions and save everyone a lot of time? Between digital editing, the reamping, drum replacement and the fact that bass is usually already recorded direct any way these producers are pretty much replacing the bands performance and sound with their own. Everything sounds the same because the same handful of guys are doing all the work.

And people wonder why the industry sucks right now? We are doing it ourselves by worshipping these producers for homogenizing everything they touch into their formula, cooking cutter BS and calling it great.

 

[Voxman]

Re: "Not in my studio!" / "I want this sound."

By good tone or bad tone, or by who reamps and who picks the amp?

By tone, just my ears. If it sits well in the mix, is defined/clear, and does what it's supposed to - then it's good, as far as I'm concerned.

By who reamps and who controls, I tend to research just about every album I listen to for it's recording techniques. It just so happens that all the reamped ones sound amazing, and the artist-picked ones generally sound like ass.



The Metallica DVD covers the Black album... and honestly, I don't see why it's so revered for it's production. The only things I like are the drums to an extent, and the vocals... the guitars are way too thin/quiet, and the drums are toooo ****ing loud.

hahahahaha...It`s exactly what some of the guys said during the mix..!!!
It`s a classic album no mattar what kind of taste you may have,it`s a fact
Seriously,if you watch that dvd you can clearly see what happend and imagine how the record would sound without Bob as a producer.
Everything happens for a reason

 

[Voxman]

Re: "Not in my studio!" / "I want this sound."

Why hire a producer if you don`t trust him?
If the producer doesn`t like the sound of your amp your pretty much stuck anyway.Who`s gonna make the guitar sound nice on the record if he can`t? Are you willing to destroy the hole recording session cause you don`t get to play your amp?
What is the main goal of recording a song?

 

[Jeff Dunne]

Re: "Not in my studio!" / "I want this sound."

This is my point. It doesn't take any production talent to try 100 things after the fact to get it right. It takes talent to get it right the first time. Afterwards it just takes time. Why aren't these guys there at the tracking sessions and save everyone a lot of time? Between digital editing, the reamping, drum replacement and the fact that bass is usually already recorded direct any way these producers are pretty much replacing the bands performance and sound with their own. Everything sounds the same because the same handful of guys are doing all the work.

And people wonder why the industry sucks right now? We are doing it ourselves by worshipping these producers for homogenizing everything they touch into their formula, cooking cutter BS and calling it great.

They weren't there because do to time constraints, money constraints, or being across the world from eachother, it just didn't work out.

I don't think any Andy Sneap album really sounds the same, even the new Arch Enemy and Nevermore, which used the same exact amps, mic's, and pre's.

If you think it all sounds the same, then you need to get your ears checked.

As far as the last comment... Alright dude, whatever you say. Just keep your stupid **** to yourself - the unnecessary comments are what make this forum worse.

 

[34029324079]

Re: "Not in my studio!" / "I want this sound."

there are a couple things:

if you want it the way you want it, just do it yourself!

otherwise,

hire a pro that specializes in your music. For instance, I would not hire some techno b-boy rapper guy or an orchestra buff to record my stoner-metal grooves!

If I get to hire someone, I am hiring Rick Rubin and will do exactly what he says!

Shine on you crazy diamond!!!

 

[FretFire]

Re: "Not in my studio!" / "I want this sound."

I think people need to chill, this a thread about recording in a studio for crying out loud. I'd hate to see anyone get banned over this, remember that replacing language with *'s and other symbols is a no-no these days...

 

[innerdreamrecords.co]

Re: "Not in my studio!" / "I want this sound."

I guess the part I don't understand is if these guys are such masters why are they needing to reamp things? They should be getting it right the first time. How much talent does it take to keep redoing things until they guess right?

.

More to the point what is right? I don't see anything wrong with re-amping, I know producers like Mutt Lange use half a dozen mics at times and a/b them until they find the magic blend. Back to the what is right thing, what was right in the 80's is certainly wrong today and some of what is happening today like the surgical sound of things Pro Tooled to death will probably not die but I'm not sure it is better.

Whenever I listen to the Black Album(not often), I end up having a headache. I don't know what it is, maybe some harsh frequencies coming out? I can only listen to 1 or 2 songs in headphones.

A lot of that comes from the mastering of current records they are limited and compressed so hard and are so loud that you get audio fatigue very quickly. This trend is killing a lot of great recordings.

 

[Jeff Dunne]

Re: "Not in my studio!" / "I want this sound."

A lot of that comes from the mastering of current records they are limited and compressed so hard and are so loud that you get audio fatigue very quickly. This trend is killing a lot of great recordings.

I hate how people think that remastering is just strapping an L2 or something accross it and crushing/boosting the hell out of it... all it ends up with is a louder, crackling sound. I'd rather stick the old one in and turn it up!

 

[Voxman]

Re: "Not in my studio!" / "I want this sound."

Hey Jeff,calm down!!!!
Did i insult you?

 

[Jeff Dunne]

Re: "Not in my studio!" / "I want this sound."

oh no dude, not you at all! I <3 u.

 

[Voxman]

Re: "Not in my studio!" / "I want this sound."

LOve u 2

 

[TheArchitect]

Re: "Not in my studio!" / "I want this sound."

As far as the last comment... Alright dude, whatever you say. Just keep your stupid **** to yourself - the unnecessary comments are what make this forum worse.

I stated an opinion. I said nothing about you. Yet you are insulting me for having an opinion. THAT is what causes problems.

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: "Not in my studio!" / "I want this sound."

I hate how people think that remastering is just strapping an L2 or something accross it and crushing/boosting the hell out of it... all it ends up with is a louder, crackling sound. I'd rather stick the old one in and turn it up!

So very very true . . . compression is the worst thing to have happened to music in the last 20 years. Imagine how crappy Floyds The Wall or Dark Side of the Moon would have sounded if they limited the living crap out of it . . .

 

[sosomething]

Re: "Not in my studio!" / "I want this sound."

I'm always into playing through different amps in the studio and experimenting with all kinds of different things, layering, etc. It's a good time.

Any engineer that has looked at my Splawn crosseyed for a minute usually relaxes once they hear it.

"Oh, it's like a Marshall. Ok."

 

[shredaholic]

Re: "Not in my studio!" / "I want this sound."

If they wouldn't let me use my Plexi, I'd walk straight out the door. If they just wanted to tweak the sound, yeh that'd be fine - but I'd want it justified and explained.

 

[SlyFoxx]

Re: "Not in my studio!" / "I want this sound."

I never answered the original question did I?

It depends. If I was a hired gun, I'd show up with what I was told to bring and play what I'm told to play.

If this is my project and I'm paying the bill I'm not letting anybody tell me what to play through. I'd listen to suggestions though. If I hired a producer I'd listen to him. Why would you hire a producer and not listen to him?!

If it's a situation where a record company is picking up the tab for the sessions then you'd have to play ball with whomever they have assigned to the project.

The thing is...you should be doing your research before you show up for a session. If you have, you're a lot less likely to encounter something unexpected.

 

[Brow]

Re: "Not in my studio!" / "I want this sound."

So very very true . . . compression is the worst thing to have happened to music in the last 20 years. Imagine how crappy Floyds The Wall or Dark Side of the Moon would have sounded if they limited the living crap out of it . . .

Over use of Compression is the worst thing to happen to music in the last 20 years

When I'm recording/mixing sessions (be they for myself or for a client) I usually find atleast 1 use for Compression (usually a Kick or Snare drum). Aslong as it's not used too much, Compression is a great tool to have at your disposal.

It's the over use of Compression that imo kills alot of todays music

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: "Not in my studio!" / "I want this sound."

And this is why we have cookie cutter BS for new music. Artists allowing producers to shape them into the same comfort zone as all the other acts they work with. At what point was it decided that it was necessary to hand over the family jewels to record an album? Since when have musicians become so inadequate and brainwashed that they can't think for themselves anymore and have to relay on everyone else to make decisions for them?? I'm not interested in the producers vision. I am interested in the artists' vision. We aren't talking about rap albums after all. So Paul was happy with the album. Great! Do you really think he would have been any less happy with it had he used different instruments? Highly unlikely but we would have heard what Paul McCartney was wanting to do. Instead we hear what the producer wanted.

Paul wanted to play his left handed '59 Les Paul...the producer wanted Paul to play his hollowbody ES-330 instead. It's the guitar Paul used for many Beatles recordings. But Paul didn't want to use it...he was more into his Les Paul tone. But everytime he'd get it out the producer would encourage him to play the ES-330 instead. In the end, Paul agreed that the ES-330 had the better recording tone.

Lew

 

[TheArchitect]

Re: "Not in my studio!" / "I want this sound."

Paul wanted to play his left handed '59 Les Paul...the producer wanted Paul to play his hollowbody ES-330 instead. It's the guitar Paul used for many Beatles recordings. But Paul didn't want to use it...he was more into his Les Paul tone. But everytime he'd get it out the producer would encourage him to play the ES-330 instead. In the end, Paul agreed that the ES-330 had the better recording tone.

Lew

So we got to hear the producers vision and not Paul's. Not even Paul was hearing both in the context of the final mix. I'm sure he did like the final results but not even the producer knows what the results would have been since those tracks weren't available. A lot of of guitars would no doubt have sounded great.

I'm not saying producers can't or don't have viable opinions in this regard. Its the blind bowing down to the will of the producer that seems so prevelant that I simple cannot fathom. They are not gods. An experienced musician's ears are just as viable. I have been doing my own recording for 15 years now as well as sessions for others. I've been on both sides of the fence. If its someone else's session I will use whatever they want. If its mine I will certainly entertain the ideas of others however I would not ever be dictated to as was suggested in the initial post. It just won't happen Nor should any artists allow themselves to be dicated to in that circumstances. Studios are a place to capture the artists vision. Not mold the artist to fit the producers vision.

 

[BigDaddy]

Re: "Not in my studio!" / "I want this sound."

I have limited recording experience. But as a guitar player and a live sound tech I do know sound, especially my sound.

Getting back to the question, I have a sound that has evolved over the almost 40 years that I have been playing. How could someone try to change that.

I could see if I was some neophyte that needed some help or direction from an experienced engineer.

The job of the engineer is to record my sound and playing not to interpret it. If I come into the studio with 2 100 watt stacks, that's a different story. But it's the engineers job to somehow get that sound without compromising the players style and individual sound.

It's up to the player to be able to get his/her sound in any venue. That will make every bodies job easier.

I like the sound of hot rodded BF Fender amp. So to record I would show up with a few different lower wattage versions of that amp. Not Bassman's and Twin reverbs. Maybe a deluxe reverb or Princeton reverb.

If the engineer knows what he's doing than he will know how to mic the amp and record it to get the overall effect of a larger sound.

Larger older style studios will have a sound room or area where you can setup a few Marshall stacks but they are few and far between.

To me it's the job of the engineer to record the sound not interpret it. It's the job of the producer to help you achieve the ultimate expression of your music during the recording process. It's a collaboration of all the people involved without crossing certain lines.

But the bottom line is what are you trying to attempt? A commercial success or an artistic success. Rarely does something become both.

The best thing for an engineer to do is see your band live or at least at a rehearsal before the recording process even starts. That way he has an idea of what to expect and how to approach recording the band/performer.

So to answer the question if a guy says this or that I would listen first. If he's off the wall and has no clue I would just walk out.

If he tells me that my setting on my amp are wrong than my answer to him is "If I can't get my sound and play to the best of my ability, why am I here?". I'm not here to record a mediocre version of my playing, I'm here to record the best possible version of my playing and that dictates that I get "MY" sound so that I can be comfortable with what I am hearing. That way I can do my best playing.