Novo Guitars?

[Masta' C]

A brand that has quite literally never been mentioned on this forum, but which has gained a huge following in recent years (largely thanks to social media).

Has anyone here played one or possibly owns/owned one?

They're pretty much the only "reliced" guitars I seem to find attractive, but I'm confused by their price point...

$3K-$5K seems like a lot considering all the hardware and electronics are available over-the-counter, the bodies are pine, and most have solid finishes, rather than fancy tops, exotic woods, etc. Heck, it's almost 2025 and they don't even use stainless frets!

Is the build quality really THAT nice?

Some seem to think so...curious what your impressions are?

 

[playas]

Never heard of them before, but reliced Novo guitars sounds like an oxymoron to me - calling the brand "Novo" ...and then relicing them.
:scratchch

 

[orpheo]

It's a brand by Dennis Fano, a great designer and builder. I remember his older work, his own guitars to be exact, and they're a bit old fashioned in my opinion. Great construction, fair enough, but more like riffing on the tele-Jazzmaster theme, than anything else that holds my interest.

 

[jeremy]

small builder = big $$$$

im sure they are nice, but i have plenty of guitars already and this isnt anything ground breaking. not to mention pine is soft as hell and im not easy with my toys

 

[Mincer]

They are a little retro for me, and seem pretty expensive. I bet they are good instruments. I just have different tastes if I was spending that kind of $.

 

[Explorer84]

I’ve heard of the name. I’ve never seen or played one in person. Out of those models the only one I would find useful is the Strat copy. But, at that price, I’ll pass.

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

I love how they look retro but also are aren't just a copy of existing shapes. I saw a touring artist recently perform with one and it sounded excellent.

 

[donaldr]

If it's a boutique builder working alone in its shop and producing 2-3 month, then $3k-5K (deducting material) will only gives a good salary and nothing more IMHO.

 

[Seashore]

Hard to say whether the price is unfair without holding and playing one, but it is a lot of money regardless. I really like the retro looks of these. Nice visual balance, in a style where a lot of guitar designs miss the mark. The specs aren't for me.

 

[Masta' C]

If it's a boutique builder working alone in its shop and producing 2-3 month, then $3k-5K (deducting material) will only gives a good salary and nothing more IMHO.

It's a small team pumping out a few guitars each week. Everything is CNC. Fairly limited finish choices and preset hardware configurations, as well, unless you spend even more for a proper custom version.

I think they're really cool, but I think they should sit in the $2K-$3K range for what you get. PRS manages to pump out USA-made S2 models for just over $1K and these aren't much improved from those. Like I said, they're not splurging for fancy woods or anything, though you can upgrade to flamed maple necks and block inlays if you're willing to spend $4K+!

On one hand, it's great that they seem to be able to sustain interest at those prices, but I worry that they are going to peak in the next couple years and then struggle once the market has more saturation. Part of what drove prices up big time was scarcity during the pandemic...custom orders were taking like 18 mos to fulfill. Now it's just a few months at most.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I don't really like their LP-style shape. The shape itself is fine. It's just their headstock that looks completely out of place in that shape.

Other than that, the other guitars don't interest me at all. Too retro for me.

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

It's a small team pumping out a few guitars each week. Everything is CNC. Fairly limited finish choices and preset hardware configurations, as well, unless you spend even more for a proper custom version.

I think they're really cool, but I think they should sit in the $2K-$3K range for what you get. PRS manages to pump out USA-made S2 models for just over $1K and these aren't much improved from those. Like I said, they're not splurging for fancy woods or anything, though you can upgrade to flamed maple necks and block inlays if you're willing to spend $4K+!

On one hand, it's great that they seem to be able to sustain interest at those prices, but I worry that they are going to peak in the next couple years and then struggle once the market has more saturation. Part of what drove prices up big time was scarcity during the pandemic...custom orders were taking like 18 mos to fulfill. Now it's just a few months at most.

PRS does a LOT more volume than Novo. Also, CNC is just one part of production. Novo has a much lower production capacity and sales network but they've still got the overhead of a shop, employees, distribution, etc. The physical making of the guitar is just one part of the equation.

AFAIK Novo are extremely high quality guitars. Think of them along the line of Fender CS team build.

 

[Masta' C]

PRS does a LOT more volume than Novo. Also, CNC is just one part of production. Novo has a much lower production capacity and sales network but they've still got the overhead of a shop, employees, distribution, etc. The physical making of the guitar is just one part of the equation.

AFAIK Novo are extremely high quality guitars. Think of them along the line of Fender CS team build.

Obviously, Novo has a much smaller shop and far fewer employees than PRS, so there's a lot less overhead in that regard, but I understand what you're saying.

I mention CNC, because it both reduces the need for manpower and speeds up production, which reduces operating costs significantly compared to true "handcrafted" instruments. Not that there isn't a lot of hands-on work that goes into these, there clearly is. I'm also a fan of CNC in general, because it offers consistency in all the areas that matter.

Fans of Novo guitars tend to highlight 4 particular aspects of the guitar:

1) Interesting finishes that you don't have to worry about getting dinged up with use (because they already are)
2) Oversized, yet lightweight bodies (thanks to the roasted pine construction)
3) Boutique electronics in simple configurations
4) A perfectly finished neck with a comfortable profile that feels broken in from the get-go (probably the most important part of the whole guitar)

Some say the necks are as good or better than Fender CS, which is interesting!

I'm sort of drawn to these because of their retro-inspired look and big bodies. I actually like their "Voltur" design a lot, but I know it's not everyone's cup of tea.

It's kind of crazy that no one here has one or has first-hand experience with them, though! They seem to be one of the fastest growing brands coming out of the pandemic.

 

[Mincer]

Obviously, Novo has a much smaller shop and far fewer employees than PRS, so there's a lot less overhead in that regard, but I understand what you're saying.

I mention CNC, because it both reduces the need for manpower and speeds up production, which reduces operating costs significantly compared to true "handcrafted" instruments. Not that there isn't a lot of hands-on work that goes into these, there clearly is. I'm also a fan of CNC in general, because it offers consistency in all the areas that matter.

Fans of Novo guitars tend to highlight 4 particular aspects of the guitar:

1) Interesting finishes that you don't have to worry about getting dinged up with use (because they already are)
2) Oversized, yet lightweight bodies (thanks to the roasted pine construction)
3) Boutique electronics in simple configurations
4) A perfectly finished neck with a comfortable profile that feels broken in from the get-go (probably the most important part of the whole guitar)

Some say the necks are as good or better than Fender CS, which is interesting!

I'm sort of drawn to these because of their retro-inspired look and big bodies. I actually like their "Voltur" design a lot, but I know it's not everyone's cup of tea.

It's kind of crazy that no one here has one or has first-hand experience with them, though! They seem to be one of the fastest growing brands coming out of the pandemic.

See, I love all of those 4 features. I just don't like the design. The idea of an oversized (but light) body is cool- like my Howard Roberts compared to an LP- but I guess I'd go for something more modern looking.

 

[orpheo]

The idea that handwork is not really a matter with CNC is just bonkers and incorrect. CNC's leave milling marks and those need to be sanded out. Glueing the bodies, glueing necks, fretwork, applying the dyes and fillers and paint, It is all handwork, no matter how you slice it. PRS has the benefit of having a huge factory so their cost-per-guitar can be reduced. Helps a lot, being large.

 

[Masta' C]

The idea that handwork is not really a matter with CNC is just bonkers and incorrect. CNC's leave milling marks and those need to be sanded out. Glueing the bodies, glueing necks, fretwork, applying the dyes and fillers and paint, It is all handwork, no matter how you slice it. PRS has the benefit of having a huge factory so their cost-per-guitar can be reduced. Helps a lot, being large.

Pretty sure that's what I said, no?

But if you're insisting that CNC doesn't actually "reduce" the amount of "handwork" that goes into building a guitar by a significant amount, well...

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

Obviously, Novo has a much smaller shop and far fewer employees than PRS, so there's a lot less overhead in that regard, but I understand what you're saying.

I mention CNC, because it both reduces the need for manpower and speeds up production, which reduces operating costs significantly compared to true "handcrafted" instruments. Not that there isn't a lot of hands-on work that goes into these, there clearly is. I'm also a fan of CNC in general, because it offers consistency in all the areas that matter.

Fans of Novo guitars tend to highlight 4 particular aspects of the guitar:

1) Interesting finishes that you don't have to worry about getting dinged up with use (because they already are)
2) Oversized, yet lightweight bodies (thanks to the roasted pine construction)
3) Boutique electronics in simple configurations
4) A perfectly finished neck with a comfortable profile that feels broken in from the get-go (probably the most important part of the whole guitar)

Some say the necks are as good or better than Fender CS, which is interesting!

I'm sort of drawn to these because of their retro-inspired look and big bodies. I actually like their "Voltur" design a lot, but I know it's not everyone's cup of tea.

It's kind of crazy that no one here has one or has first-hand experience with them, though! They seem to be one of the fastest growing brands coming out of the pandemic.

They also use the most top quality hardware out there. For example, all their vibrato units and associated bridges are Mastery. They're not cheap.

 

[Masta' C]

Well, for $3.5K and up, they BETTER come with top quality hardware! Geez, this isn't Gibson we're talking about, LOL! :lmao:

Breaking down their standard production line (aka: Nucleus series), the trem models have about $850 worth of hardware and electronics if you're going by retail prices for those parts. However, Novo is probably spending closer to $600 via OEM/Wholesale pricing on the trem models and ~$200 less than that for their non-trem or single-pickup models.

A "tempered" pine body blank from their supplier is about $100 and the wood for the neck might fall in the same range if it's exotic or has nice figuring. So, we're at $200 for "wood"...tops. I think we can safely add another $50 for paint and misc supplies (rags, sandpaper, dye, etc) during the build.

According to Glassdoor, guitar technicians at Novo have reported making around $20/hr, but we'll go with $25/hr for the purpose of this calculation. Estimate 10 hours in labor per guitar ($250 labor cost) and that puts a trem model, which sells for $3700 on the website, in the $1100 range as the total cost to build.

The majority of their sales are direct, so no dealer cut on the bulk of their sales, meaning they are profiting $2500 or more per guitar. That's a pretty decent business model if you can keep the orders coming in!

Yes, I know there's additional overhead and things like advertising and paying off YouTube celebs to consider in the final numbers, but then we'd really need to look at their total monthly production and consider the fact that Custom Orders, which are also a big part of their business, tend to sell for even more than my example above.

Like I said, I think they're interesting and they are certainly becoming quite popular!

I hope to play one at some point.

 

[orpheo]

Well, for $3.5K and up, they BETTER come with top quality hardware! Geez, this isn't Gibson we're talking about, LOL! :lmao:

Breaking down their standard production line (aka: Nucleus series), the trem models have about $850 worth of hardware and electronics if you're going by retail prices for those parts. However, Novo is probably spending closer to $600 via OEM/Wholesale pricing on the trem models and ~$200 less than that for their non-trem or single-pickup models.

A "tempered" pine body blank from their supplier is about $100 and the wood for the neck might fall in the same range if it's exotic or has nice figuring. So, we're at $200 for "wood"...tops. I think we can safely add another $50 for paint and misc supplies (rags, sandpaper, dye, etc) during the build.

According to Glassdoor, guitar technicians at Novo have reported making around $20/hr, but we'll go with $25/hr for the purpose of this calculation. Estimate 10 hours in labor per guitar ($250 labor cost) and that puts a trem model, which sells for $3700 on the website, in the $1100 range as the total cost to build.

The majority of their sales are direct, so no dealer cut on the bulk of their sales, meaning they are profiting $2500 or more per guitar. That's a pretty decent business model if you can keep the orders coming in!

Yes, I know there's additional overhead and things like advertising and paying off YouTube celebs to consider in the final numbers, but then we'd really need to look at their total monthly production and consider the fact that Custom Orders, which are also a big part of their business, tend to sell for even more than my example above.

Like I said, I think they're interesting and they are certainly becoming quite popular!

I hope to play one at some point.

10 hours of labor is really, really low. Very unrealistic. 25 to 40 is closer to realistic.
Hardware cost is also unrealistic. Closer to 400 instead of 600 USD.

 

[Masta' C]

10 hours of labor is really, really low. Very unrealistic. 25 to 40 is closer to realistic.
Hardware cost is also unrealistic. Closer to 400 instead of 600 USD.

You might be looking at 25 to 40 hours per guitar in terms of total build time, but certainly not in terms of actual man-hours being paid.

You're probably right about it being more than just 10 hours, though. Let's break it down and adjust accordingly...

We'll start with 30 minutes for cutting the rough shapes of the body and neck out on a bandsaw. CNC is fully automated once programmed, so 30 minutes to set up/tear down the jigs for the neck, body, and fretboard.

It takes around an hour to cut a body and neck on a pair of industrial CNC machines, which can be run simultaneously and overseen by one person. Another hour for the fretboard, which includes any additional run-over from the body or neck.

So, around 3 hours of "labor" to get the bones ready.

You've got an hour for sandblasting the pine body, 2 hours for installing the dot inlays, truss rod, and gluing up the fretboard (not including dry time). Another 2 hours for final shaping/sanding of the parts, plus 2 hours for paint (drying/curing time doesn't count because it doesn't require active man-power).

That's a total of 10 "labor" hours to this point.

We'll toss in 2 more hours for hand relic'ing, another hour for hardware installation, another hour for electronics, and a full 4 hours for the nut and fret install, plus one additional hour for final setup/cleaning.

That puts us around 18 "labor" hours start to finish. For poops and giggles, we'll make it 19.

If we use the employee-reported wage of $20/hr, that adds about $130 in "labor" to my original cost estimate. But, as you said, they may actually be spending less than my estimate on hardware, so it's pretty much a wash.

Custom ordered models with special finishes, binding, custom inlays, etc will require more time, but the price also increases accordingly.