JumpMarine
18 watts of Mayhemologist
Lew made the comment in another thread that he couldn't hear a difference in tone between the two. So why is the hoveland so much more $?
Orange Drops vs Hovelands: Lew???
- Thread starter JumpMarine
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L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Orange Drops vs Hovelands: Lew???
Because they cost alot more to manufacture. The Hovlands are oil n foil caps, not plastic or polypropylene. And I think when Hovlands vs. Orange Drops vs. Mallory 150 vs. ceramic disc caps vs. Xicons vs BlueCaps are used and compared in guitar amps that there may well be a noticeable improvement or difference in tone...I just don't hear much differance when differant caps of the same value but differant composition are used in the simple tone circuitry of guitars because the signal that passes through the cap is sent to ground and doesn't remain as part of the audio signal.
Lew
JumpMarine said:
Because they cost alot more to manufacture. The Hovlands are oil n foil caps, not plastic or polypropylene. And I think when Hovlands vs. Orange Drops vs. Mallory 150 vs. ceramic disc caps vs. Xicons vs BlueCaps are used and compared in guitar amps that there may well be a noticeable improvement or difference in tone...I just don't hear much differance when differant caps of the same value but differant composition are used in the simple tone circuitry of guitars because the signal that passes through the cap is sent to ground and doesn't remain as part of the audio signal.
Lew
STRATDELUXER97
Stratoblaster Tone Meister
Re: Orange Drops vs Hovelands: Lew???
I've been down this very same road and again,have to agree with my buddy Lew on this one! :13: I agree 100% with Lew's findings and this has been my own experience also.
John
Lewguitar said:
I've been down this very same road and again,have to agree with my buddy Lew on this one! :13: I agree 100% with Lew's findings and this has been my own experience also.
John
JumpMarine
18 watts of Mayhemologist
Re: Orange Drops vs Hovelands: Lew???
Wow, can't believe this was revived after two months........good info regardless.
Wow, can't believe this was revived after two months........good info regardless.
Re: Orange Drops vs Hovelands: Lew???
So, Hovland makes another capacitor other than the MusiCap? I thought the MusiCap had a polypropylene film/foil construction.
http://www.hovlandcompany.com/products/musicap/features.html
So, Hovland makes another capacitor other than the MusiCap? I thought the MusiCap had a polypropylene film/foil construction.
http://www.hovlandcompany.com/products/musicap/features.html
Fresh_Start
New member
Re: Orange Drops vs Hovelands: Lew???
ditto
Orange Drops do seem to make a worthwhile difference, but they appear to be a the point of diminishing returns in a guitar tone circuit. I thought I heard an improvement over a metal film cap from Radio Shack, but Lew's done actual A/B experiments with a switch...
Chip
rspst14 said:
ditto
Orange Drops do seem to make a worthwhile difference, but they appear to be a the point of diminishing returns in a guitar tone circuit. I thought I heard an improvement over a metal film cap from Radio Shack, but Lew's done actual A/B experiments with a switch...
Chip
Curly
Moe's Bluesman
Re: Orange Drops vs Hovelands: Lew???
I'll repeat my standard answer:
we've spent more time talking about it than it's worth
just get get an Orange Drop and be done with it!
a couple quotes from Ken Fischer:
"A personal note, never use a disc type cap in a guitar. They do not resonate right in a guitar circuit. A proper tone control should also add resonant tone as it is used, not simply flatten the high end. "
"I said, "Never use a ceramic disc as a tone cap in a guitar". Of course the question became what I should use? I don't know!!! O.K., I do know! (You guys, and gals are sharp)
First capacitors come in multitude of types, values, and voltages. The Sprague Black Beauty, also known as "bumble bee caps", are really great. Of course they don't make them any more.
I have heard that Gibson has had these caps made again for the 2003 Gibson Historics, but are not being as an aftermarket item. If you have a 50's Gibson, the .02 (really .022) Black Beauty was used. I used an old Fender value, Black Beauty in my Tele. It is a .047, (Fender calls for .05, which is for our purpose, the same thing). These caps were nicknamed Bumble Bee because they had color code bands around a black body. They look sort of like a giant Bumble bee.
Let's get to the important points of choosing a modern cap. First you want the correct value. Of course, feel free to try other values than traditional ones, if you are after something different. Most humbuckers use .022 (.020), and most single coils .05 (.047). You want separate film foil, not metallized types. Mylar and polyester film works better then polypropylene film.
Since pickups put out very low voltage, the voltage rating should not matter, but it does seem to have an affect. Traditional voltage values are commonly, but not always, 200 or 400 volt ratings.
The Black Beauty caps used in old guitars were typically the 400 volt type. Another interesting point is that, if you reverse the cap end to end, it will sound different in use. I jump mine in with test clips, run the tone control through its range, and use directions my ear choose. Also, if you have many of the same type, try a bunch of them. They will vary slightly from cap to cap. It's worth the time to choose one you really like with your gear.
Lastly, some people put a bright cap from hot to slider on the volume control. This is so the highs do not roll off when turning the control down. This is very amplifier/speaker dependent.
In any case, a silver mica type is my choice, if you use one. The value judged by ear, using your guitar with your amplifier. 30PF to 220PF is the most common range. Fender once did a Tele with a .001 (1000PF) --- OUCH!
Well I hope this clears up some questions. Until the next time, All the Best. Ken Fischer "
I'll repeat my standard answer:
we've spent more time talking about it than it's worth
just get get an Orange Drop and be done with it!
a couple quotes from Ken Fischer:
"A personal note, never use a disc type cap in a guitar. They do not resonate right in a guitar circuit. A proper tone control should also add resonant tone as it is used, not simply flatten the high end. "
"I said, "Never use a ceramic disc as a tone cap in a guitar". Of course the question became what I should use? I don't know!!! O.K., I do know! (You guys, and gals are sharp)
First capacitors come in multitude of types, values, and voltages. The Sprague Black Beauty, also known as "bumble bee caps", are really great. Of course they don't make them any more.
I have heard that Gibson has had these caps made again for the 2003 Gibson Historics, but are not being as an aftermarket item. If you have a 50's Gibson, the .02 (really .022) Black Beauty was used. I used an old Fender value, Black Beauty in my Tele. It is a .047, (Fender calls for .05, which is for our purpose, the same thing). These caps were nicknamed Bumble Bee because they had color code bands around a black body. They look sort of like a giant Bumble bee.
Let's get to the important points of choosing a modern cap. First you want the correct value. Of course, feel free to try other values than traditional ones, if you are after something different. Most humbuckers use .022 (.020), and most single coils .05 (.047). You want separate film foil, not metallized types. Mylar and polyester film works better then polypropylene film.
Since pickups put out very low voltage, the voltage rating should not matter, but it does seem to have an affect. Traditional voltage values are commonly, but not always, 200 or 400 volt ratings.
The Black Beauty caps used in old guitars were typically the 400 volt type. Another interesting point is that, if you reverse the cap end to end, it will sound different in use. I jump mine in with test clips, run the tone control through its range, and use directions my ear choose. Also, if you have many of the same type, try a bunch of them. They will vary slightly from cap to cap. It's worth the time to choose one you really like with your gear.
Lastly, some people put a bright cap from hot to slider on the volume control. This is so the highs do not roll off when turning the control down. This is very amplifier/speaker dependent.
In any case, a silver mica type is my choice, if you use one. The value judged by ear, using your guitar with your amplifier. 30PF to 220PF is the most common range. Fender once did a Tele with a .001 (1000PF) --- OUCH!
Well I hope this clears up some questions. Until the next time, All the Best. Ken Fischer "
