Original P.A.F

[dsguitar1]

So I know there is no definitive answer here as every paf is slightly different and some further apart then others due to types of magnets but..... Those of u with original Paf pickups how would u say the bass, middle, treble characteristics are.

Flat eq? Slightly scooped in the mids? Slight mid spike? Etc

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Mine are in a ‘62 SG/LP. They’re fairly flat, and emphasize the position, neck is really bassy, bridge is bright.

 

[Mincer]

Usually there is a slight dip in the mids, with strong treble and bass.

 

[freefrog]

So I know there is no definitive answer here as every paf is slightly different and some further apart then others due to types of magnets but..... Those of u with original Paf pickups how would u say the bass, middle, treble characteristics are.

Flat eq? Slightly scooped in the mids? Slight mid spike? Etc

Depends on the pots and cable used more than on the magnet, Sir... A P.A.F. played through 500k pots & 30m of cable won't sound the same than through 300k pots & 3m of low capacitance wire... and magnets aside, P.A.F. variations are also a question of coils, metallic alloys and so on.

In my subjective experience and indifferent feelings, what defines a P.A.F. is less its EQing than its dynamic behavior: pick attack is percussive, ready to change in an atonal squeaky transient as soon as the amp is a bit pushed. Then the ADSR envelope blooms in a characteristic way, with a sustain tending to fade before to come back louder... The voicing is nasal, somehow vocal with honky mids but no mud... Sometimes, the notes seem to be doubled by an octaver. That's "double tones"...

What I'm talking about can be heard from the first note here:

The vid below also gives a good idea of the real thing (albeit not the full pic because of the controlled volume, limiting most probably the interactions between guitar and amp):

Now and if you absolutely want a BMT chart estimation, I share below the frequency response of various neck pickups played in chords direct to the board, through a 1M input, from unfretted strings to 12th fret. The reference pickup (upper left) is a vintage Gibson pat. sticker and all the other pickups are what I consider as good or reasonably good P.A.F. clones - with a couple of Duncan's in the mix, FWIW. ;-)

https://imgur.com/a/HYVmywM

 

[Ashurbanipal]

To me, of the PAFs I've heard, they generally tend to be brighter, dynamically sensitive, and seem to be good at translating harmonic overtones. There are exceptions, of course, as pickup winding and materials back then weren't what they are today.

Listening to that band above, yeah, those audible artefacts and harmonics could be also down to the lack of the potting, with the PAFs picking up the various knocks, air resonance, and sympathetic resonance of strings behind the nut etc. when playing cranked. In the shoot-out, there's noticeable differences as I'm listening – those particular PAFs are the brightest, PATs have more mids, while the modern Gibsons sound the most even eq wise. Different flavours, depends on what you might prefer and what would suit your rig.

Have to also remember that when Seth Lover was designing the PAF, he was looking to get it to sound as close to a P90 as he could.

 

[esandes]

The original PAFs had unevenly would bobbins, giving the "airy" sound. Does the Seth Lover have uneven winds?

 

[Aceman]

Never had one - but almost every "classic" PAF style - 59, 36th, etc....is like, a little more or less an A5 with

B - 5
M - 4
T - 6

 

[BluesMan335]

I've seen pics of original PAF windings (covers & tape removed). Some are very lopsided with most of the wire at the bottom or top of the coil. Not totally surprising, since the goal was simply to get wire on a coil, and no one then knew anything about the impact of patterns and tensions.

The unbalanced coils, due to random differences in winding patterns & tensions, negate some of the 'humbucker effect' (increased volume & mids, along with reduced noise, high end, and clarity). That means unbalanced coils are going to be brighter & clearer with less midrange, than if they were matched; basically a mix of humbucker and single coil tones from the same pickup.

Duncan's Seth's don't have unbalanced coils, as that wasn't a characteristic Seth Lover had intended in his design, but was something that happened afterwards in production. Some other pickup manufacturers of PAF replicas use unbalanced coils.

 

[hamerfan]

The original PAFs had unevenly would bobbins, giving the "airy" sound. Does the Seth Lover have uneven winds?

Seymour bought the exact machine on which PAFs were wound, when Gibson moved to Nashville. So your CS made Seth Lover and Ants are made on this machine.
What Gibson did in the time was what Gibson does best: sloppy work. They did not measure the wire, so they had thicker and thinner batches. The winders did their job sometimes good (exact turns) and sometimes bad, threw all the bobbins randomly into crates. So an old PAF is a hit or miss thing on being uneven, but not througly "uneven".
SD replicates that in a way on the Ants and on the Seth Lovers, but his specs are little less uneven.

BTW if you go the Antiquity way, you can order these thru Custom Shop for the same price as the Dealers stock Ants, but you can tailor the specs of your Ants. They also come in personalized box to you.

 

[GuitarStv]

I tend to think of a PAF as being the most single coil-y sounding of the humbuckers. High and mid output stuff all starts to get thicker and usually mid focused. The PAF thing has a little more chime and sounds a little better clean.

 

[Mincer]

Keep in mind, too, that unpotted pickups certainly 'feel' different to play. They didn't have the massive amps that we have today, so when playing more traditional styles that depend a lot of dynamics, you certainly can feel them.

 

[jeremy]

real pafs are usually brighter and cleaner than people would expect. my buddy has a few sets from guitar pulls and they are fairly scooped, id say 635 or maybe 645 like acebob said

 

[skelt101]

The original PAFs had unevenly would bobbins, giving the "airy" sound. Does the Seth Lover have uneven winds?

No, not intentionally. There might be a slight variation, but it's all within a certain tolerance. For all intents and purposes, they are even.

 

[beaubrummels]

Seymour bought the exact machine on which PAFs were wound, when Gibson moved to Nashville. So your CS made Seth Lover and Ants are made on this machine.
What Gibson did in the time was what Gibson does best: sloppy work. They did not measure the wire, so they had thicker and thinner batches. The winders did their job sometimes good (exact turns) and sometimes bad, threw all the bobbins randomly into crates. So an old PAF is a hit or miss thing on being uneven, but not througly "uneven".
SD replicates that in a way on the Ants and on the Seth Lovers, but his specs are little less uneven.

BTW if you go the Antiquity way, you can order these thru Custom Shop for the same price as the Dealers stock Ants, but you can tailor the specs of your Ants. They also come in personalized box to you.

I thought the Seths were wound to match the patent, not how things were done in the 50's, so the coils were 'identical' and more controlled on the wire spec (min/nom/max)?

 

[Benjy_26]

I thought the Seths were wound to match the patent, not how things were done in the 50's, so the coils were 'identical' and more controlled on the wire spec (min/nom/max)?

That was my impression as well. I was also under the impression that all the Duncan "PAF's" are wound on the Leesona.

 

[Mincer]

I thought the Seths were wound to match the patent, not how things were done in the 50's, so the coils were 'identical' and more controlled on the wire spec (min/nom/max)?

That was my understanding. I'd love to know if that is correct.

 

[AlexR]

The magnet metal mix, the impurities in the other metal bits, the wire diameter itself as well as the coating thickness all were differences to what you get today unless you make a very expensive special order.
Then you have the machine, which wound differently depending on what location on the machine the bobbin was mounted. The turn count is not hugely different (despite urban legends that say differently). Much of the K differences are attributed to wire gauge and winding tension. And of course unless you know the very settings used it is hard to get to the same place as what the machine was doing in the 50's.
Not sure if SD brings in parts specifically for the Seth and Ant, but the winding patterns seem quite regular compared with the very lopsided/irregular vintage bobbins. And also they are nominally a balanced turn count.

What this means is that SD wants to try and make a more consistent pickup that will suit more guitars. PAF clones and the real thing are quite temperamental - they need just the right instrument or they don't sound right.