Our guitars better than the guitarists of the late 60's and early 70's-why upgrade?

[Funkfingers]

Re: Our guitars better than the guitarists of the late 60's and early 70's-why upgrad

Reductio ad absurdum?

Not exactly. IMO, this thread has been absurd most of the way through.

You began with this assertion.

I should be concentrating more on my playing and less with the constant fascination of modifying and tweaking this and that or worse buying endless new gear.

By post #22, you are back on the trail of your personal favourite Clapton guitar tone, contradicting your opening assertion.

for some reason, I am driven to keep upgrading with the false hope that the next thing will get me that magic tone when the truth is not in gear but in my fingers and hands.

Another assertion. One that does not further your argument one way or another. Of course, we all crave novelty from time to time. Even somebody with the supposedly perfect guitar and amplification could become jaded with it.

do any of you experience this and what do you do to refocus on playing vs. the quest for Holy Grail of gear?

Finally, a direct question (or two).

Having invited opinions, the polite thing to do would be to wait for them to roll in. See whether any of the suggestions are of any help to you.


Since things have already reductio-ed ad absurdum, there is only one place left to go. Bring on the dead banjo-pickin' watercolourist.

 

[leevc5]

Re: Our guitars better than the guitarists of the late 60's and early 70's-why upgrad

The logic of post #41 completely eludes me. However, it is very entertaining watching this poster build a straw man and then tear it apart.
But there I go being impolite once again.:sigh:

 

[Obsessive Compulsive]

Re: Our guitars better than the guitarists of the late 60's and early 70's-why upgrad

I thought this forum is supposed to be a learning platform, so ignorant turds won't go brandishing their ignorance across our face.

 

[leevc5]

Re: Our guitars better than the guitarists of the late 60's and early 70's-why upgrad

I thought this forum is supposed to be a learning platform, so ignorant turds won't go brandishing their ignorance across our face.

You said and I quote "Does this person even know what he is talking about? 'Tone' is mostly the result of the interaction of the tools to make music, from instrument, to pickup to the recording and mixing process.

If I were to rely on his belief, I would be able to replicate Clapton's tone or any other guitarist using an amplified acoustic guitar plugged into tiny computer speakers. All I need is practicing with dedication for 10 hours a day, correct?"

Hmmmm...does that sound like someone contributing to a learning platform?? I think not.
Also your language above doesn't seem appropriate on a learning platform and I quote " ignorant turds".

 

[voggin]

Re: Our guitars better than the guitarists of the late 60's and early 70's-why upgrad

You said and I quote "Does this person even know what he is talking about? 'Tone' is mostly the result of the interaction of the tools to make music, from instrument, to pickup to the recording and mixing process.

If I were to rely on his belief, I would be able to replicate Clapton's tone or any other guitarist using an amplified acoustic guitar plugged into tiny computer speakers. All I need is practicing with dedication for 10 hours a day, correct?"

Hmmmm...does that sound like someone contributing to a learning platform?? I think not.
Also your language above doesn't seem appropriate on a learning platform and I quote " ignorant turds".

Lighten up, Francis. People are going to disagree on forums, it's nothing personal. And people are going to be colloquial, this isn't a debating society. " Ignorant turds" isn't some kind of vicious personal attack, it's just guys taking the piss.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Our guitars better than the guitarists of the late 60's and early 70's-why upgrad

The logic of post #41 completely eludes me.

All logic appears to elude you.

However, it is very entertaining watching this poster build a straw man and then tear it apart.

Just describing what I can see.

What I see in this thread is somebody who presents a topic for open discussion but actually only seeks to have his or her own opinions affirmed by as many other forum members as possible.

I could be wrong.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Our guitars better than the guitarists of the late 60's and early 70's-why upgrad

I thought this forum is supposed to be a learning platform

All human life (with an Internet connection) is here. Like a municipal water treatment works, you need good filters.

 

[BloodRose]

Re: Our guitars better than the guitarists of the late 60's and early 70's-why upgrad

its easier to tinker than to practice and usually more fun

And look up gear/post on the interwebz!

I cant say more fun, but since my spousal unit dislikes electric guitar (Unless the player is great and its not too loud or heavy) and that most of my "guitar time" is late at night, I became more of tinkerer than a player. Sadly, I wish it was the other way around. But yeah, I ponder on this alot. Yeah, many of the guitars used then and by those players were considered the "grail" models, but much of that great music was made with stock guitars. I try to make my tools the best I can, but I often get frustrated and even embarrassed sometimes cuz I have some killer tools and very little skills. But, on the bright side, I now have nearly everything dialed in, so I know now, its all on me. NO excuses. So, I hope to one day be able to play worthy of my gear..
This is exactly the reason I have that quote in my sig..

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Our guitars better than the guitarists of the late 60's and early 70's-why upgrad

Well this thread kinda assumes that everyone's holy grail tone is automatically Clapton/Hendrix/Page & whoever else from the seventies, but most of the tones I like/consider "classic" are from the 80's. I liked Clapton in Cream..he never struck me as phenomenal though. I'm not a Hendrix fan...not his tone ..not all his playing & def not his singing, though I like the odd song. I've always loved Zep/Page but his tone often sounds dreadful to me (harsh/weak/shrill...you name it). Then again, sometimes it sounds just fine.

My point being, I could'nt care less about vintage gear since it produces sounds that quite often really don't appeal to me. Even in the 70's there were way better sounding (to me) tones than any of ^^ those guys had. (Blackmore/Iommi/Frank Marino/Uli Roth/Michael Schenker/Angus & Malcolm Young/70's Priest/EVH ...etc..etc..etc..).

Most of my fave tones were made with Warlocks/Destroyers/RG's/Sabre's/Jem's/Baretta's/Pacer's/Soloist's/Rhoad's etc...and to my mind they're way finer instruments than anything that came before (design/ergonomics/functionality& comfort/sound/output/stability/looks ..everything)..and I'd personally play any one of those over any "legendary" guitar out there belonging to Clapton/Page etc..based purely on the criteria mentioned above. Lol, in fact I'd take a $400-500 current production Indon/Chinese Ibby over them too...why? It would just play better (as per my expectations)...

Many (now highly regarded) vintage instruments were (contrary to popular opinion/their iconic status) ...pretty poorly put together, with specs that varied like hell from instrument to instrument/and were made as cheaply as could be got away with at the time...they were'nt "labours of love".

 

[DonP]

Re: Our guitars better than the guitarists of the late 60's and early 70's-why upgrad

I'm think of Hendrix, Clapton, Beck, Page, Green, Knopfler...

When we look at the guitars they were using and then take a look at what is on our stable of guitars don't we see that our guitars are for the most part superior to what they were using?

I should be concentrating more on my playing and playing less with the constant fascination of modifying and tweaking this and that or worse buying endless new gear. However, for some reason I am driven to keep upgrading with the false hope that the next thing will get me that magic tone when the truth is not in gear but in my fingers and hands.

What a shame, do any of you experience this and what do you do to refocus on playing vs. the quest for Holy Grail of gear?

I have a lot of pickups I'd like to try, amp parts to build, but as I got older I got lazy? I just want to plug in and play.

I guess when I was younger I couldn't afford the good stuff, so I was more interested in making my own.

Now, I have high end amps and guitars, and I don't see the need to mess with stuff as much.

 

[BloodRose]

Re: Our guitars better than the guitarists of the late 60's and early 70's-why upgrad

Look, it's bloody simple, kiddies ... it doesn't matter what era ... just get a guitar, cable and amp, and get good at playing and understanding music. In the process, if you're even vaguely imbued with ears and some imagination, you will begin to sound good.

The problem is so many are seeking the easy ways out by spending all day on the internet, tinkering, or anything else to waste time and avoid the one thing required ... putting the time in to learn. It's that simple.

True... As Always....

Well this thread kinda assumes that everyone's holy grail tone is automatically Clapton/Hendrix/Page & whoever else from the seventies, but most of the tones I like/consider "classic" are from the 80's. I liked Clapton in Cream..he never struck me as phenomenal though. I'm not a Hendrix fan...not his tone ..not all his playing & def not his singing, though I like the odd song. I've always loved Zep/Page but his tone often sounds dreadful to me (harsh/weak/shrill...you name it). Then again, sometimes it sounds just fine.

My point being, I could'nt care less about vintage gear since it produces sounds that quite often really don't appeal to me. Even in the 70's there were way better sounding (to me) tones than any of ^^ those guys had. (Blackmore/Iommi/Frank Marino/Uli Roth/Michael Schenker/Angus & Malcolm Young/70's Priest/EVH ...etc..etc..etc..).

Most of my fave tones were made with Warlocks/Destroyers/RG's/Sabre's/Jem's/Baretta's/Pacer's/Soloist's/Rhoad's etc...and to my mind they're way finer instruments than anything that came before (design/ergonomics/functionality& comfort/sound/output/stability/looks ..everything)..and I'd personally play any one of those over any "legendary" guitar out there belonging to Clapton/Page etc..based purely on the criteria mentioned above. Lol, in fact I'd take a $400-500 current production Indon/Chinese Ibby over them too...why? It would just play better (as per my expectations)...

Many (now highly regarded) vintage instruments were (contrary to popular opinion/their iconic status) ...pretty poorly put together, with specs that varied like hell from instrument to instrument/and were made as cheaply as could be got away with at the time...they were'nt "labours of love".

I agree. I appreciate the legendary music, I love claptons woman tone, Peter Greens tone. REALLY LOVE Eddie's Tone.. Made on a hack guitar.. Randys Playing, but NOT his tone so much.. haha.

And the stuff that always makes my tootsies roll is 80s metal. There is a tone I hear in some of my fav tunes that I have no way to describe even. Its a woody almost buzzy type of tone.. There are better representations of the tone that I speak of, but the only song I can recall is Fallen Angel by poison. In the beginning of the solo.

Did think that guys who played Kramers, charvels and Jacksons often got better tone than many of the Ibanez, bc rich players.. but prolly my bias.. haha. However, before I get flamed, I KNOW that much of that music was made thru lots of processing.. BUT, I had a Kramer Focus 6000 that had that tone in spades (Duncan bucker installed and thru my jcm80o and splawn.. no effects

 

[greekdude]

Re: Our guitars better than the guitarists of the late 60's and early 70's-why upgrad

Well this thread kinda assumes that everyone's holy grail tone is automatically Clapton/Hendrix/Page & whoever else from the seventies, but most of the tones I like/consider "classic" are from the 80's. I liked Clapton in Cream..he never struck me as phenomenal though. I'm not a Hendrix fan...not his tone ..not all his playing & def not his singing, though I like the odd song. I've always loved Zep/Page but his tone often sounds dreadful to me (harsh/weak/shrill...you name it). Then again, sometimes it sounds just fine.

My point being, I could'nt care less about vintage gear since it produces sounds that quite often really don't appeal to me. Even in the 70's there were way better sounding (to me) tones than any of ^^ those guys had. (Blackmore/Iommi/Frank Marino/Uli Roth/Michael Schenker/Angus & Malcolm Young/70's Priest/EVH ...etc..etc..etc..).

Most of my fave tones were made with Warlocks/Destroyers/RG's/Sabre's/Jem's/Baretta's/Pacer's/Soloist's/Rhoad's etc...and to my mind they're way finer instruments than anything that came before (design/ergonomics/functionality& comfort/sound/output/stability/looks ..everything)..and I'd personally play any one of those over any "legendary" guitar out there belonging to Clapton/Page etc..based purely on the criteria mentioned above. Lol, in fact I'd take a $400-500 current production Indon/Chinese Ibby over them too...why? It would just play better (as per my expectations)...

Many (now highly regarded) vintage instruments were (contrary to popular opinion/their iconic status) ...pretty poorly put together, with specs that varied like hell from instrument to instrument/and were made as cheaply as could be got away with at the time...they were'nt "labours of love".

it was about time someone said the obvious.

 

[Hank-]

Re: Our guitars better than the guitarists of the late 60's and early 70's-why upgrad

In the 60s the electric guitar was sorta new instrument to be explored musically imo. Its been more than 60 yrs now i guess, its starting to get repetitive hearing it. I have considered learning to play a cello for awhile, feel drawn to its sound.

There is such a thing as a awful tone if used in wrong context, like if the song requires a mesa dual rectifier sound & you have a tweed overdriven sound available instead. But otherwise, not worth chasing minute details if its for playing live. I have a friend who doesn't play any instruments, once when i played my guitars one after another, all he seemed to be really keen on was the different body shape, colour & how i played, not a single compliment on the sound of the guitar i considered my number 1. Oh well.

 

[dave74]

Re: Our guitars better than the guitarists of the late 60's and early 70's-why upgrad

My favorites are the modern versions of "80's" axes.
I specify "modern versions" just because many of the original 80's superstrats have those various "weird" fake floyd systems lol.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Our guitars better than the guitarists of the late 60's and early 70's-why upgrad

True... As Always....



I agree. I appreciate the legendary music, I love claptons woman tone, Peter Greens tone. REALLY LOVE Eddie's Tone.. Made on a hack guitar.. Randys Playing, but NOT his tone so much.. haha.

Yeah, nothing wrong with any of those tones obviously :lmao: .....I feel the same way about Rhoads. Now Jake E Lee...he had amazing tone (did'nt play too bad either lol). That's the way I feel about Malmsteen...love his playing, his tone on the other hand, I know people love it..but it's not really up my street.

And the stuff that always makes my tootsies roll is 80s metal. There is a tone I hear in some of my fav tunes that I have no way to describe even. Its a woody almost buzzy type of tone.. There are better representations of the tone that I speak of, but the only song I can recall is Fallen Angel by poison. In the beginning of the solo.

haha...well, I would'nt know anything about that . But, I love the old 80's heavy/power metal tones...those fat screaming glassy solo's.. Maiden/Priest, Vicious Rumors, King Diamond, Ozzy/Dio, Crimson Glory, Skolnick, Friedman, Murphy..


On the rockier/bluesier side of things...though I was'nt really into GnR (could'nt stand the vocals) I though Slash's tone was pretty awesome...same with Gary Moore, Dave Meniketti of Y&T, Matthias Jabs, Schenker in MSG etc..

Did think that guys who played Kramers, charvels and Jacksons often got better tone than many of the Ibanez, bc rich players.. but prolly my bias.. haha. However, before I get flamed, I KNOW that much of that music was made thru lots of processing.. BUT, I had a Kramer Focus 6000 that had that tone in spades (Duncan bucker installed and thru my jcm80o and splawn.. no effects

It's just how you dial it in (then add a ****load of chorus/delay/reverb :laugh2 haha j/k. I get killer 80's tones going straight into my Bugera 333XL or the AMT Stonehead/Randall T2 for the glassier stuff. As for tones..I kind of love both versions. The Jackson's, Charvel's etc for that quintessential screaming METAL tone & The Ibby's/Gunslinger's for their insane shred tones (Skolnick Murphy Friedman Vai...)

 

[LLL]

Re: Our guitars better than the guitarists of the late 60's and early 70's-why upgrad

Never the forget the *huge* impact on tone that the studio brings.

In most cases, what you're hearing on record isn't what you would you hear coming out of the amp speakers.

Compression, tubes, expensive preamps & mics, EQing, double-tracking, triple-tracking, pitch-shifting, echo chambers, etc...

The only other item I can think of that's different is that the players mentioned (clapton, page, etc) played through simple circuit amps cranked to "11".

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Our guitars better than the guitarists of the late 60's and early 70's-why upgrad

Never the forget the *huge* impact on tone that the studio brings.

In most cases, what you're hearing on record isn't what you would you hear coming out of the amp speakers.

Yeah, that's a massive part of it :bigthumb:

 

[MetalManiac]

Re: Our guitars better than the guitarists of the late 60's and early 70's-why upgrad

To answer your question directly- Yes, they are better-almost infinitely. Why 'upgrade'?... because you cannot afford a 54 though '71 Strat.

 

[80's_Metal]

Re: Our guitars better than the guitarists of the late 60's and early 70's-why upgrad

I upgrade because i want the most kick in the balls sound i can get.

It's for me and me alone.

I don't even care what the old guys used.

And I don't want to sound like Clapton at all, ever....

Thats just my .02

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Our guitars better than the guitarists of the late 60's and early 70's-why upgrad

'71 Strat.

I saw what you did there.